I really dislike ship-to-ship combat

[Wormerine]

The ship v. ship could use a little polish. The fight after boarding is nice with the crew hired fighting along side. My one major issue was when I put a ship at full speed ahead and gain 60m, why does it stop moving forward? Seriously? What kind of boat has anyone been in that goes 60m then has to turn left and right to continue moving forward again? And before anyone jumps on that one, I do understand tacking. It happens no matter what direction the ship goes and not just into the wind.

The system is heavily abstracted and no, it doesn’t make sense. In case it is not clear the restriction is that you can make one full move per round (1x full sail, or 2x half sail). From what I understand from a ship stream, it is a callback to tabletop RPG rules, though I never played one, so can’t confirm that. Josh mentioned a while ago that this restricion will probably get removed.

[Katarack21]

Just did my first ship-to-ship combat. Was really disappointed. It's not fun.

[fgalkin]

Just did my first one, and I thought it was fun. But then, I used to play some of those super-niche wargames that were basically exactly that, but with historically accurate WW1 and WW2 warships and better simulated damage, so my tastes might be different from the average PoE backer. 

[kanisatha]

Just did my first one, and I thought it was fun. But then, I used to play some of those super-niche wargames that were basically exactly that, but with historically accurate WW1 and WW2 warships and better simulated damage, so my tastes might be different from the average PoE backer. 

I suspect your tastes are actually in line with a great many gamers out there who will make up the vast majority of PoE2 buyers. There are many very smart people on these forums, and as such it surprises me to no end that everyone on these forums sees themselves as being representative of people who will be playing PoE2. Forumites (the few dozen people who regularly post on these forums) are not even representative of the tens of thousands of backers, let alone the hundreds of thousands of people who will buy PoE2.

 

I myself don't personally care for the ship-to-ship combat mini-game, but as long as it is optional I really don't at all mind it being included because I recognize that it will serve to attract a lot of people to this game who otherwise would not be attracted to a game of this nature.

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

Just did my first one, and I thought it was fun. But then, I used to play some of those super-niche wargames that were basically exactly that, but with historically accurate WW1 and WW2 warships and better simulated damage, so my tastes might be different from the average PoE backer. 

 

I liked it but I wish there were more game elements to manage, like wind direction and a weather gage; it's a bit shallow and thus not as engaging as i'd like. 

 

Still it's there and there's boarding for those who don't want to deal with it.

[fgalkin]

 

Just did my first one, and I thought it was fun. But then, I used to play some of those super-niche wargames that were basically exactly that, but with historically accurate WW1 and WW2 warships and better simulated damage, so my tastes might be different from the average PoE backer. 

 

I liked it but I wish there were more game elements to manage, like wind direction and a weather gage; it's a bit shallow and thus not as engaging as i'd like. 

 

Still it's there and there's boarding for those who don't want to deal with it.

 

Yeah, I'd liked to have wind direction to be a factor, too. That's why I compared it to the NWS 20th century games, which had sea states and visibility, but no wind direction. 

[Gitmfap]

Wind would make it sooo much deeper. Also to drop a sea anchor would be absolutely sick.

[Wormerine]

Wind would make it sooo much deeper. Also to drop a sea anchor would be absolutely sick.

Josh said that they were experimenting with wind mechanic but it ended up being more annoying than interesting. Isn’t “stop” somewhat a drop of an anchor?

[Gitmfap]

I just don’t really “depth” of sailing ship combat without wind....seems....half hearted

[Sking]

Hey you bunch of inquisitive gamers,

 

We added a few tweaks to the ship combat for this backer beta patch. Please give it another go and let us know if we are at least headed in the right direction.

 

I got your backs

 

- SKing

[Wompoo]

I  tired it today after Steams usual bloated update  6 gig >.< The ship too ship does feel a little long, with more than 1 wth moment (not into text based chess... the game already feels a little too quite, and the ship combat just lacks that sense of urgency). Will try it a few more times. Also how do you feed your crew... all I get is a msg in red saying you cannot change slots in combat (I'm not in combat).

[Climhazzard]

It's not fun.  Your choices are basically miss 50 times until you die, or charge forward until you die.  If someone knows how to win I'd like to know....

[Lamppost in Winter]

It's not fun.  Your choices are basically miss 50 times until you die, or charge forward until you die.  If someone knows how to win I'd like to know....

 

Just go far enough so that you're within ideal cannon range. Then it's mostly shoot, jive, hold position for accuracy, sometimes shuffle your crew around.

 

I didn't love ship combat, but was never down on it like a lot of people seem to be. It's fine, but not great. I do have to say it feels much better in the current beta, probably something to do with the revised turn system and the more polished animations.

[BillyCorgan]

Is there an "escape" (with malus why not) choice now ? (if we don't want to engage or if we want to leave a long boat fight...).

 

No time to test for now.

Edited March 31, 2018 by BillyCorgan

[theBalthazar]

I tested this today...

 

Personnally, always the same feeling.

 

- Horrible repetitive music with drum.

- Horrible concept. It is not fun. 38m - 38m 38m And quick a good fight. (it is true...) Or like climhazard said, turn, miss, turn hit,  during 15 turns.

 

Pazaak have a strategy. There is chance but also strategy. There are cards and it is fun. A good base for a mini-game.

 

Same for Gwent. It is awsome. FAR BETTER than Poker dice (not bad in witcher 1 and 2, but largely less fun than gwent)

 

But Poker dice is 100x more fun than... ship to ship battle in POE2.

 

For me, if Obsidian don't want to represent a true naval battle, the only remain solution is a derivation of concept. Like "items with numbers". Not really a card game, but few "elements" with matter to think. To thicken this mini-game.

 

For me, actually, even with few change with BB4 (cosmetic...), this mini-game is catastrophic. My plan is to avoid it as much as possible in the final game...

Edited March 31, 2018 by theBalthazar

[Wormerine]

Silly people.

 

I did only one battle yesterday late night, but my initial impressions are very positive. Addition of “advantage result” should make things more clear and making forward movement available at any time seems more natural. “Brace for impact” is a nice addition to minimise damage when hit - hopefully AI will use it well: in previous beta builds I found it too easy to cripple enemy ship by massacring enemy crew with raking hits.

 

A chance for manouvers to take multiple turns is an interesting one and I like a feel of it.

 

My biggest complaint would be tooltips. Some of them are completely immaculate, but even so I would like to be able to know exactly what benefit/downside to the move is. Yes I know “STOP” gives +20 to aim, but only after I have done it. If a turn or jibe has a chance to take two turns, what are the odds of that happening? It seems it is still tricky to figure out what chances enemy has to hit me. Any difference between full sail & halfsail beyond speed? If I remember well both granted +5 evasion.

[Piero]

Some request/suggestions:

• In the map, a small circle around the ships that starts the encouter when enter in contact, instead of having the ships to touch on the map.
• An option to hide enemy information that  we shouldn't have.
• In ship combat, having the enemy ship on top as the constant instead of our ship pointing up and the enemy ship moving around, it would help with the feeling on confrontation with the other ship and desorientation at sea.

Edited April 1, 2018 by Piero

[Starwars]

I just tried it a bit for the first time... Hrm, not sure. I like the idea of having a text-based combat system but it seems to take a pretty long time and at the same time lack a real amount of depth/dynamics to it. It feels a bit... half-baked to me. I guess they already tried the wind thing before but it feels like the system is in need of something... more. While at the same time.

I didn't find it very interesting on my first tries so I kinda fear for how it will feel when you're on your twentieth battle in the full game. And I was quite looking forward to this system.

 

I hope stuff like crews and equipment will provide enough depth that it will still feel somewhat fresh but I dunno.

[Rhaeg]

I only looked into the whole ship combat thing very briefly a while ago, but now I've finally given it some time. At first I thought I wouldn't like it, but it really isn't too bad after having tried it more extensively. I can see it can turn into a fine mini game: gathering your crew, assigning them to positions where they can gain experience and level up and become experts in their tasks, defeating other ships as an extra source of loot, getting better ship equipment and better ships... I assume you start with a very small ship and can eventually get pretty huge ones with lots of cannon and crew slots. It has a nice little progression part in it then.

 

I'd like to see a few more features like being able to capture enemy crews and ransoming off important captains and passengers to the factions they belong to or delivering them to rival factions for additional reputation. 

 

The one thing I'm a bit scared of now is that getting a large ship with a large crew will get very expensive. And because you spend money on your crew as in-game time goes by, I'm afraid it will really inhibit exploration. I can see myself dreading the cost in food, water and wages if I want to sail around a bit and I'll end up using my ship as little as possible to save money and choose where to go do quests next depending on proximity to my current location. I really don't want a mini game to start influencing my decisions in the overall game. Sailing around has a penalty to it now because of the costs involved and that can't be an intended design thingy.

Edited April 1, 2018 by Rhaeg

[djinnxy]

There isn't much to go on right now with only 3 enemy ships, a ghost ship, and some flotsam. As it is, it is not worth sinking a ship. It's either run away or attempt to board for what little loot and ship upgrades you can get vs. ship repair costs and medicine for injured crew. Unless sinking a ship in the future gives some loot or massive xp, the only reason i can see to sink one is for a quest. The way the few quests are now it may come down to siding with the humanitarians who save the minority fish people or the globalist Vailan trader faction vs the protectionist cult and sinking the others' ships??

[Wormerine]

There isn't much to go on right now with only 3 enemy ships, a ghost ship, and some flotsam. As it is, it is not worth sinking a ship. It's either run away or attempt to board for what little loot and ship upgrades you can get vs. ship repair costs and medicine for injured crew. Unless sinking a ship in the future gives some loot or massive xp, the only reason i can see to sink one is for a quest. The way the few quests are now it may come down to siding with the humanitarians who save the minority fish people or the globalist Vailan trader faction vs the protectionist cult and sinking the others' ships??

You make it sound as if sinking a ship would drain some major supplies. Don't crewmembers gain wounds in combat as well when knocked out? Don't usually go for boarding than can't remember.

 

Depending on a ship sinking it might be easier. One captain especially, is fairly high level, and its much easier to defeat him in ship combat than a melee fight. Still, no matter how you approach it, it is a fairly decent monetary gain. 

 

We have seen only one type of ship and little variation in cannons, except those spawned with console commands. Still, I believe that foundation are solid. I don't think it will be a main point of playing a game, but as a sidecontent on your way to the game proper its good. 

[djinnxy]

 

 

We have seen only one type of ship and little variation in cannons, except those spawned with console commands. Still, I believe that foundation are solid. I don't think it will be a main point of playing a game, but as a sidecontent on your way to the game proper its good. 

 

I looted a better cannon from boarding one earlier today. It shot farther and did more damage. 

[ShakotanSolari]

I've tried it a few times and sadly I must confess that I am really not into it. It seems very repetitive and lacking any tactical depth or choice, I found myself just charging into canon range and pressing the same series of buttons over and over again until one of us sunk. Was fun for the first couple of turns but it seems to just drag itself out needlessly without offering any real reason for tactical flexibility as the turns progressed.

[Clean&Clear]

I've tried it a few times and sadly I must confess that I am really not into it. It seems very repetitive and lacking any tactical depth or choice, I found myself just charging into canon range and pressing the same series of buttons over and over again until one of us sunk. Was fun for the first couple of turns but it seems to just drag itself out needlessly without offering any real reason for tactical flexibility as the turns progressed.

 

While I partly had the same feeling, I still think it was mostly because I had no idea what was I doing. A proper tutorial would really help a lot here. I'm still hoping that with the proper knowledge and various ship types, upgrades, different cannons and things like this, the ship combat will actually be quite a bit deeper and tactical. But I do have to agree that the encounters in beta don't seem too impressive. 

[Gitmfap]

Could we get other cannons to purchase to try out how we may actually find “depth” to planning for navel fights? I feel as if the cannons are the missing link here...?