Politics Princess' Sweet Sixteen

[Bartimaeus]

Speaking of economic influence, Trump is now considering tariffs on $60 billion worth of Chinese goods (presumably annually). He had previously rejected $30 billion for not being steep enough.

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/13/trump-is-considering-imposing-tariffs-on-60-billion-of-chinese-goods-reuters-citing-source.html

[Malcador]

*sees no new Ageil's military thread*

 

*posts in here instead*

 

You guys are going to love this one, Trump told some Marines in a speech that they wouldn't go to Mars if Clinton was elected. http://cnn.it/2DpgE3G I know he was trying to make a joke and get some laughs or applause, but seriously, does he think we'll have to fight LGMs or whatever random horrors or beast from 60's sci fi show/movie? Guns are the absolute last thing we'd need on a trip to Mars.

 

Maybe he read the_donald posts and realizes that he needs marines, and they shall know no fear.

[Guard Dog]

A bullet fired on Mars at 40% G and 1% atmosphere would travel a hell of a long way. 

 

Edit: actually no it wouldn't. No O2 means all you would hear is "click"

 

Edit Edit: Actually you wouldn't hear "click". Unless it was right next to your head. 1% atmosphere won't carry sound very far.

Edited March 14, 2018 by Guard Dog

[smjjames]

You can always rig it with propellant that doesn't need oxygen. That or rig some sort of oxygen container into the gun, but using a propellant that doesn't need oxygen sounds a heck of a lot easier to do since it wouldn't require changes to the gun, aside from perhaps the firing mechanism.

 

Besides, why waste precious oxygen on firing the gun when you need to breathe said oxygen.

Edited March 14, 2018 by smjjames

[Zoraptor]

Modern bullets have had their own oxidiser as well as reducer for ages? A cartridge is, after all, a brass cylinder sealed by a lead projectile so is impermeable to oxygen as is.

 

Now I'm curious if you could use a gun to fire a bullet into orbit on Mars. You can theoretically here, of course, but it's very much in theory with our atmosphere/ gravity/ planetary radius.

[smjjames]

Well, they've developed guns that can fire bullets (and bullets that can be fired) underwater which is effectively the same as firing a gun in an oxygen free environment. In fact, I'm pretty sure both the US and Russia (and others) have developed guns and bullets that can be fired in space (recoil in microgravity nonwithstanding) if someone had to.

[ShadySands]

Not sure if I should be picturing the WH40K Space Marines or the **** bird Marines from Aliens

[Guard Dog]

Archery would work. But the fletchings would have to be huge to smooth out wobble between the thin atmosphere and the natural kinetic inefficiency of energy transfer . So big their added weight would be a drag on the arrow. Plus the reduced gravity causes the arrow to pick up speed but strike with less force. Isn't physics fun? 

[Malcador]

Think they will work on orbital insertion before space infantry weapons

[smjjames]

Not sure if I should be picturing the WH40K Space Marines or the **** bird Marines from Aliens

 

I don't remember any bird Marines from Aliens. Though I never really watched Aliens.

[Guard Dog]

Think they will work on orbital insertion before space infantry weapons

No kidding. There have been 19 attempted landings on Mars, 9 have failed. That's not exactly an inspiring success rate.

[Zoraptor]

Well, they've developed guns that can fire bullets (and bullets that can be fired) underwater which is effectively the same as firing a gun in an oxygen free environment. In fact, I'm pretty sure both the US and Russia (and others) have developed guns and bullets that can be fired in space (recoil in microgravity nonwithstanding) if someone had to.

 

Any modern gun can fire in space, modern cartridges are sealed so don't interact with the atmosphere anyway; that has a major military advantage as sealed cartridges stay dry and don't age anywhere near as quickly as they used to from oxygen exposure. The side effect is that they will also fire without an atmosphere. It works because the propellants don't require oxygen since they either have an oxidiser added or intrinsically degrade upon triggering. eg, for nitroguanasine since wikipedia has the equation handy:

 

H₄N₄CO_{2 (s)} -> 2 H₂O _(g) + 2 N_{2 (g)} + C _(s)

 

No oxygen required, just a percussion (or whatever, generally electricity or heat would work as well but guns use percussion, so...). Guns firing underwater are a different problem to do with water's density and incompressibility, a gun may fire underwater due to having sealed cartridges- if it doesn't it's due to water getting into the percussion mechanism and slowing it too much or similar- but you won't get a happy result from it, a blown barrel or breach, whichever is weaker, I'd suspect. If you want a gun to fire underwater you need a way to clear the water from the barrel first and it cannot work over much distance anyway since it will lose its impetus too quickly. Hence underwater 'rockets', torpedoes, being favoured. Consider torpedo warheads, mines or depth charges as well, none require oxygen and they are, in essence, just giant cartridges with no bullet.

[Guard Dog]

I can tell you for a fact bullet crimps are not air tight. they are not even water tight. Maybe 95-98% but not 100%. Speaking from experience here. If they are submerged for more than a few minutes they are ruined. The US military buys all of it's small arms munitions from a company called Alliant. The stuff they make MAY be water tight at 1 atm. The stuff I buy from Eagle Arms & Winchester surely is not. 

[Malcador]

I bet Trump just watched his kid play Advanced Warfare before hand.

 

[smjjames]

Given his apparent stance on violent videogames (or at least the gratuitously violent), he probably wouldn't even let his kid play that game, which is ironic because gunz and all that.

[Zoraptor]

I can tell you for a fact bullet crimps are not air tight. they are not even water tight. Maybe 95-98% but not 100%. Speaking from experience here. If they are submerged for more than a few minutes they are ruined. The US military buys all of it's small arms munitions from a company called Alliant. The stuff they make MAY be water tight at 1 atm. The stuff I buy from Eagle Arms & Winchester surely is not. 

 

The parallel would be to something like Pasteur's swan neck flask- it's a sealed system (remains sterile, minimal atmospheric exchange) but it isn't fully airtight. IIRC they make military ammo watertight using a plasticised lining/ sealant, that's expensive and overkill for civilian rounds where incidental immersion just means you throw the ammo away and maybe don't bag any deer or rabbits that day.

 

Firing a gun underwater was more of a digression about there being fundamental problems with it apart from ammo getting wet, and it's at least passably interesting (to me, at least) as a reason for why you have torpedoes rather than underwater guns and why torpedoes have a severe speed limit unless you're very imaginative (motor at front sheathing the torpedo in air). Could have just left it at mines/ torpedo warheads/ depth charges not needing oxygen, I guess.

[ShadySands]

Does this count as a school shooting?

 

Students injured when Monterey County teacher accidentally fires handgun in class

[Lexx]

"Alexander was teaching a gun safety course as part of his administration of justice class when he fired a single shot from a semi-automatic handgun into the ceiling,"

 

Guess he needs a gun safety course for himself too, huh? :>

[Bartimaeus]

​Connor Lamb (D) declared winner in Pennsylvania special U.S. House election, in a district Trump carried by 20 points a little over a year ago.

[Pidesco]

​Connor Lamb (D) declared winner in Pennsylvania special U.S. House election, in a district Trump carried by 20 points a little over a year ago.

 

No recount?

[Guard Dog]

Now I'm curious if you could use a gun to fire a bullet into orbit on Mars. You can theoretically here, of course, but it's very much in theory with our atmosphere/ gravity/ planetary radius.

I don't think so. The muzzle velocity of a 5.56 mm round is a around 3300 fps give or take. Escape velocity on earth is a little over 11 km/s. So if Mars has 40% of the G as here 5 km/s would be a good estimate of Mars's escape V. 3300 FPS is 1000 m/s, so 1 km/s (ball park, I'm just doing this in my head not a calculator so don't bet on any of this). So if you were on Mars and fired a bullet in the air I suggest you get out of the way. It's coming back down.

[Bartimaeus]

​

 

​Connor Lamb (D) declared winner in Pennsylvania special U.S. House election, in a district Trump carried by 20 points a little over a year ago.

 

No recount?

 

There is no automatic recount in Pennsylvania for non-statewide elections. However, I'm sure the R will attempt to pursue one.

[Guard Dog]

Just once I'd like to see a politician accept defeat with grace. Not holding my breath.

[Hurlshort]

Kind of crazy that Nixon had very reasonable grounds to challenge the Kennedy loss, but didn't want to come across as a sore loser. 

[Guard Dog]

I stand corrected. There was one.