Backer Beta Update 2 Patch Notes

AndreaColombo · February 2, 2018

Guys, we need to talk about beards. Are the beards we see in the backer beta final? Cause the only way a real beard is gonna look like that is if you're pubescent and growing it for the first time. Only the full thick beard is an exception to this rule right now; most other cuts look like a porcupine with alopecia XD

Edited February 2, 2018 by AndreaColombo

Sking · February 2, 2018

Hey everyone,

I updated the original post of this thread to include more information and fixed some formatting issues.

I got your back

- SKing

Boeroer · February 2, 2018

The detailed list is quite nice. Most of the things mentioned there are good changes. I mostly appreciate the raise of Predator's Sense back to 50%.

SaruNi · February 2, 2018

So Wizard summons should be working now.

Really like the change to Puppet Master and Ring Leader and the increased damage for long casting spells. Most of the balance nerfs seem good (FoD, lightning strikes, dual wielding...).

Tactical Meld is missing now, at least in the character creation ability list....

Edited February 2, 2018 by SaruNi

AndreaColombo · February 2, 2018

This sentence in the detailed list isn't followed by any details as the colon would suggest:

Armored Grace has had its effect halved, because of how complicated Armor Speed Factor is, this equates roughly to the following:

Edited February 2, 2018 by AndreaColombo

PK htiw klaw eriF · February 2, 2018

This sentence in the detailed list isn't followed by any details as the colon would suggest:

Armored Grace has had its effect halved, because of how complicated Armor Speed Factor is, this equates roughly to the following:

It's too complicated to post.

rtokar · February 2, 2018

The beta plays between 8-12 FPS for me. – I have not updated to the new one yet, but I did not see mention of a Frame Rate adjustment.

I am on a MAC

NVIDIA GeForce GT 750M 2048 MB

16 GB 1600 MHz DDR3

2.6 GHz Intel Core i7

POE 1 Runs well. I get a good 30-40 FPS

Should this improve by launch? or is this slow frame rate what I can expect on my system.

Thanks!

Looks great outside the choppy play.

AndreaColombo · February 2, 2018

I'll be honest—I played this build for a whole 10 minutes before quitting and finding myself deprived of all interest to run it again.

My main pain point is how recovery has been made even longer, paired with an unnecessarily convoluted attack speed system that prevents 0-recovery builds and makes one penalty weigh heavier than a bunch of stacked bonuses. It wasn't enough that casters were boringly slow; melee combatants had to be made so too.

There are good changes listed in the OP, and yet some major issues that have been reported since day one linger still. UI is not informative; power level is applied inconsistently and doesn't make the difference it should between single- and multi-classed characters; stacking rules are counter-intuitive and inconsistent; casters are still slow; STR/RES changes weren't reversed and single-classed Ciphers still suck; cascading crits are still a thing; Transcendent Suffering still disappears after a save/reload ... and so on, and so forth.

All of the major issues that took away from my fun are still there, and some of the stuff I liked is no longer.

I guess this is my cue to leave the beta behind. I'll try the game when it's out.

Edited February 2, 2018 by AndreaColombo

hilfazer · February 2, 2018

Hey everyone,

I updated the original post of this thread to include more information and fixed some formatting issues.

I got your back

- SKing

I was able to see detailed changelog for system changes but it's no longer visible. Opera 50.0 and Mozilla 58.0.1.

Was that something we were not supposed to see?

theBalthazar · February 2, 2018

There are good changes listed in the OP, and yet some major issues that have been reported since day one linger still. UI is not informative; power level is applied inconsistently and doesn't make the difference it should between single- and multi-classed characters; stacking rules are counter-intuitive and inconsistent; casters are still slow; STR/RES changes weren't reversed and single-classed Ciphers still suck; cascading crits are still a thing; Transcendent Suffering still disappears after a save/reload ... and so on, and so forth.

- Flame of devotion change is good for multiclass, but bad for single. For me an ideal solution would be to submit flame of devotion at power level like 20 % + [x% power level] (PL 20+30 % max for single classes. 20+15 % max for multiclasses = 50 % or 35 %)

- Stacking rules. Always a suppressed tenacious with +2 penetration Sword modal. (become useless)

- Miasma (eg) +1 second. LOL. Everybody say caster are slow, obsidian add 1 second to few spells : p

- Calling the world maw (eg). Yes... -1 second. Always awfully slow....

- People generally dislike RPG like Pillars because too much slow speed. Here, here it will not help them to love this style.

+ I am now OK to stay with STR/RES change, except with a better idea in Resolve.

Edited February 2, 2018 by theBalthazar

dunehunter · February 3, 2018

Marked prey now gives 10 accurate bonus to ranger and pets, Sworn enemy now gives 20% damage bonus to paladin. Both has its unique bonus and they stacks each other now.

Doppelschwert · February 3, 2018

Has something changed in the AI department?

~~In particular, does the UI now properly scale with screen resolution?~~

The AI customization screen still doesn't scale with resolutions, which makes it unusable for lower resolutions.

Also, what does the spell resistance on the Mage Slayer actually mean now? If it doesn't scale, 5% resistance is pretty pathetic as bonus.

Edited February 3, 2018 by Doppelschwert

Salinger · February 3, 2018

Armor Recovery Penalty changed across all three armor types

Heavy Armor changed from 67% to -38%

Medium Armor changed from -82% to -45%

Light Armor changed from -50% to -30%

Something wrong here?

IndiraLightfoot · February 3, 2018

In the new detailed report of changes in this beta patch, it says: "Carnage's damage attribute is now Strength."

What was it before?

And can someone explain this?

"Armor Recovery Penalty changed across all three armor types

Heavy Armor changed from 67% to -38%

Medium Armor changed from -82% to -45%

Light Armor changed from -50% to -30%"

IIRC, these aren't even the correct old recovery penalty percentages?

@Salinger: I was equally perplexed by this. See my post from another thread above.

Edited February 3, 2018 by IndiraLightfoot

theBalthazar · February 3, 2018

-25 % armored grace malus of recovery =

16 % of action speed. (+35 % recovery)

13 % of action speed (+20 % recovery)

Anyone understand the formula ?

It seems to be more 50 % of [35 %]

So the description is not clear. It is more 50 % of actual value of armor ?

Edited February 3, 2018 by theBalthazar

AndreaColombo · February 3, 2018

I'm surprised nobody's brought up the cursor change in the inventory screen when you pick up an item. It is beyond annoying and runs counter how mouse-driven cursors work in any other RPG or even OS. Why was it done?

Edited February 3, 2018 by AndreaColombo

IndiraLightfoot · February 3, 2018

I'm surprised nobody's brought up the cursor change in the inventory screen when you pick up an item. It is beyond annoying and runs counter how mouse-driven cursors work in any other RPG or even OS. Why was it done?

This is so true! I was on the verge of reporting it as a bug immediately, but restrained myself. I now regret it. Please remove this feature, and that arrow hovering in the upper left bug me so much.

SaruNi · February 3, 2018

I'm surprised nobody's brought up the cursor change in the inventory screen when you pick up an item. It is beyond annoying and runs counter how mouse-driven cursors work in any other RPG or even OS. Why was it done?

Maybe they thought it was confusing when you want to move an item from one character's inventory to another---the item replaced the cursor, and you had to click on the second character's icon with the item to switch to their inventory.

A much better solution would be to keep the cursor in its usual position and have the item hover at a slight distance from the cursor.

The current version is just disorienting.

AndreaColombo · February 3, 2018

^ Agreed. Switching inventories was indeed a little confusing, but the current solution is frustrating.

The item icon is still where your cursor would be, so the most natural thing for you to do is point with the item icon and click—except it doesn't work. You have to point with the silly arrow that isn't where your cursor would be. Very counter-intuitive.

MaxQuest · February 4, 2018

Armor Recovery Penalty changed across all three armor types

Heavy Armor changed from 67% to -38%

Medium Armor changed from -82% to -45%

Light Armor changed from -50% to -30%

Something wrong here?

Definitely, but Aarik also added the following under the spoiler:

Armored Grace has had its effect halved, because of how Armor Speed factor functions, this equates roughly to the following:
With Heavy Armor: Was -67% of Armor Recovery Penalty, is now -38% reduced penalty

With Medium Armor: Was -82% of Armor Recovery Penalty, is now – 45% reduced penalty

With Light Armor: Was -100% of Armor Recovery Penalty, is now -65% reduced penalty

So what they meant is that Armored Grace value was nerfed from 0.20 to 0.10.

Or to be more exact, it goes like this:

Base values:

- Heavy Armor : x0.645 Recovery Speed (same as +55% Recovery Time)

- Medium Armor: x0.740 Recovery Speed (same as +35% Recovery Time)

- Light Armor : x0.833 Recovery Speed (same as +20% Recovery Time)

Beta 2: Armored Grace was adding +0.2 Recovery Speed back:

- Heavy Armor (with AG): x0.845 Recovery Speed (or +18% Recovery Time) ((55-18) / 55 = 0.67 -> AG removed 67% of Armor Recovery Penalty)

- Medium Armor (with AG): x0.940 Recovery Speed (or +6% Recovery Time) ((35- 6) / 35 = 0.82 -> AG removed 82% of Armor Recovery Penalty)

- Light Armor (with AG): x1.000 Recovery Speed (or 0% Recovery Time) ((20- 0) / 20 = 1.00 -> AG removed 100% of Armor Recovery Penalty)

Beta 3: Armored Grace is adding +0.1 Recovery Speed back:

- Heavy Armor (with AG): x0.745 Recovery Speed (or +34% Recovery Time) ((55-34) / 55 = 0.38 -> AG removed 38% of Armor Recovery Penalty)

- Medium Armor (with AG): x0.840 Recovery Speed (or +19% Recovery Time) ((35-19) / 35~= 0.45 -> AG removed 45% of Armor Recovery Penalty)

- Light Armor (with AG): x0.933 Recovery Speed (or +7% Recovery Time) ((20- 7) / 20 = 0.65 -> AG removed 65% of Armor Recovery Penalty)

Edited February 4, 2018 by MaxQuest

PhesojSS · February 4, 2018

The first beta experience was so bad, I will not suffer through any more of these. I am so disgusted by the design changes for spells from POE 1, that this game has very little interest for me going forward. Such a shame, another Dragon Age 2 type of let down, should have waited to see this mess before backing it. Will not back any more Obsidian releases after this.

AndreaColombo · February 4, 2018

So Armored Grace is now terrible. Because everybody loves a slow drag, right?

I don't understand. PoE had fast, normal, and slow modes. Deadfire kept fast mode unchanged, which means it's unusable in combat unless you want to play Benny Hill Show; then changed normal to slow so that people who enjoyed normal mode in PoE can't have what they want. What's the purpose? Why must everyone play the slug fest? Is sitting through lengthy recovery times everyone's idea of fun? I can't be the only one who feels like their character is weak if they spend half the time doing nothing in combat.

MaxQuest · February 4, 2018

^ It's interesting how Armored Grace still doesn't reflect what it does exactly in it's updated tooltip:

One can inspect bb_statuseffects.gamedatabundle and see that baseValue was changed from 0.2 to 0.1

{
	"$type": "Game.GameData.StatusEffectGameData, Assembly-CSharp",
	"DebugName": "Armored_Grace_SE_ArmorSpeed",
	"ID": "77aed1fa-6301-4574-8e79-56ba34031115",
	"Components": [
		{
			"$type": "Game.GameData.StatusEffectComponent, Assembly-CSharp",
			"StatusEffectType": "ArmorSpeedFactorAdj",
			"OverrideDescriptionString": 140,
			"UseStatusEffectValueAs": "None",
			"BaseValue": 0.1,
			"DynamicValue": {
				"Stat": "None",
				"SkillDataID": "00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000",
				"Class": "None",
				"MultiplyBy": 1,
				"Operator": "Add"
			},
			"KeywordsIDs": [],
			"DurationType": "Infinite",
			"Duration": 0,
			"MaxStackQuantity": 0,
			"ApplicationBehavior": "UseLongerDurationIfAlreadyApplied",
			"ApplicationType": "ApplyOnStart",
			"IntervalRateID": "00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000",
			"ApplicationPrerequisites": {
				"Conditional": {
					"Operator": 0,
					"Components": []
				}
			},
			"TriggerAdjustment": {
				"TriggerOnEvent": "None",
				"TriggerOffEvent": "None",
				"ValidateWithAttackFilter": "false",
				"ParamValue": 0,
				"ValueAdjustment": 0,
				"DurationAdjustment": 0,
				"ResetTriggerOnEffectTimeout": "false",
				"MaxTriggerCount": 0,
				"IgnoreMaxTriggerCount": "false",
				"RemoveEffectAtMax": "false",
				"ChanceToTrigger": 1
			},
			"PowerLevelScaling": {
				"UseCharacterLevel": "false",
				"BaseLevel": 0,
				"LevelIncrement": 1,
				"MaxLevel": 0,
				"ValueAdjustment": 0,
				"DurationAdjustment": 0
			},
			"IsHostile": "false",
			"ClearOnCombatEnd": "false",
			"ClearOnRest": "false",
			"ClearOnFoodRest": "false",
			"ClearWhenAttacks": "false",
			"ClearOnDeath": "false",
			"HideFromCombatTooltip": "true",
			"HideFromUI": "false",
			"VisualEffects": [],
			"MaterialReplacementID": "00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000",
			"AttackFilter": {
				"KeywordsIDs": [],
				"KeywordLogic": "Or",
				"Range": "None",
				"ClassType": "None",
				"Source": "None",
				"DefendedBy": "None",
				"Empowered": "false",
				"Disengagement": "false",
				"Stealthed": "false",
				"PowerLevel": 0,
				"PowerLevelOperator": "EqualTo",
				"ChanceToApply": 1
			},
			"AttackTargetFilter": {
				"KeywordsIDs": [],
				"KeywordLogic": "Or",
				"Race": "None",
				"HealthPercentage": 0,
				"HealthOperator": "EqualTo",
				"Distance": 0,
				"DistanceOperator": "EqualTo",
				"HasDOT": "false",
				"IsMarked": "false"
			},
			"ExtraValue": -0.25,
			"DamageTypeValue": "All",
			"DamageAttribute": "Default",
			"KeywordValueID": "00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000",
			"RaceValue": "None",
			"StatusEffectTypeValue": "None",
			"ItemValueID": "00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000",
			"AfflictionTypeValueID": "00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000",
			"StatusEffectsValueIDs": [],
			"AttackValueID": "00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000",
			"AttackOverrideValue": "None",
			"EventValue": "OnApply",
			"ClassValue": "None",
			"WeaponTypeValue": "None",
			"AttackHitType": "None",
			"SkillValueID": "00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000",
			"AudioEventListID": "00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000",
			"BedRestDaysMinimum": 0,
			"BedRestDaysMaximum": 0
		}
	]
}

Edited February 4, 2018 by MaxQuest

theBalthazar · February 4, 2018

For a light armor with classic +20 % recovery Time.

20 (base) -7 (note with armored grace) = gap of 13 % of attack speed bonus.

-------------

For a medium armor with classic +35 % recovery Time.

35 (base) -19 (note with armored grace) = gap of 16 % of attack speed bonus.

-------------

For a heavy armor with classic +55 % recovery Time.

55 (base) -34 (note with armored grace) = gap of 21 % of attack speed bonus.

------------

So....^^

In others terms,

A variable bonus according to armor ratio. More heavy is armor, more the bonus is effective ?

So for me, it is more 40 % of armor recovery is suppressed. (55 * 0.4 = 22) (120 % or 25 % is irrelevant ?)

Edited February 4, 2018 by theBalthazar

Answermancer · February 5, 2018

I don't understand. PoE had fast, normal, and slow modes. Deadfire kept fast mode unchanged, which means it's unusable in combat unless you want to play Benny Hill Show; then changed normal to slow so that people who enjoyed normal mode in PoE can't have what they want. What's the purpose? Why must everyone play the slug fest? Is sitting through lengthy recovery times everyone's idea of fun? I can't be the only one who feels like their character is weak if they spend half the time doing nothing in combat.

Agreed, I think they should rethink the whole recovery revamp they're doing in the sequel. The old system with Slow mode was just better, even if they tune the balance here it will still feel more limited and less user friendly than the first game.

I don't get it. The "no slow mode" thing feels like some kind of short-sighted upper management note or something "people felt the game was too fast and like they had to play on Slow, so to avoid confusing new players just slow everything down and get rid of slow mode."

Backer Beta Update 2 Patch Notes

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