[Suggestion] : Magic Staffs in Pillars' World

[FlintlockJazz]

 

 

 

Staffs are traditionally used to aid in walking.

And self-defence.

 

Apparently, the staff was the number one weapon used in England for homicide at one point.  Or so I heard.

 

A thick and hard-hitting stick of wood, easy to acquire. It's quite threatening by itself and if you knew how to use it, you could make your way around any sword.

 

Yep, all this talk is making me want to go play a staff-wielding fighter in some system now...

[daven]

Lindybeige does a good video on the subject of staffs as weapons. Watch it if you care, don't watch it if you don't! Those are your options.

[rjshae]

I'm not keen on big-ass magic staffs being made the 'mage' weapon primarily for what another poster said: they look they should be usable in melee as well, in which case it then becomes "why not use them in melee too?" and then you just got normal mages instead of rapier mages which is what I wanted.

 

The trade-off would be a slower speed -- wands are fast weapons; quarterstaffs are slow. Presumably that means you can get off more shots with a wand in a given span of time.

[MaxQuest]

The trade-off would be a slower speed -- wands are fast weapons; quarterstaffs are slow. Presumably that means you can get off more shots with a wand in a given span of time.

Surprise! You get the same number of swings with a staff as you do with a wand in a given span of time, in PoE1.

Well if not taking into account running to the target.

Edited November 10, 2017 by MaxQuest

[rjshae]

Okay, well less chance of an interrupt with a wand at any rate.

[PugPug]

I concur, magic ranged weapons feel like their being left out with out a two-hander.

 

Rods are two-handed. They are long, like a staff, and fire magical projectiles.

 

What is this thread about? A rod made of wood?

Edited November 10, 2017 by PugPug

[JerekKruger]

Apparently, the staff was the number one weapon used in England for homicide at one point.  Or so I heard.

 

Not surprising. Quarterstaff fighting was a very popular martial art in England at one point in, so there were probably a lot of them around and a lot of people who knew how to use them effectively.

[Juodas Varnas]

 

I concur, magic ranged weapons feel like their being left out with out a two-hander.

 

Rods are two-handed. They are long, like a staff, and fire magical projectiles.

 

What is this thread about? A rod made of wood?

 

A rod... But twice as long.

Rods are real short in Pillars 1

 

How am i supposed to overcompensate with that short stick?!

[PugPug]

 

 

I concur, magic ranged weapons feel like their being left out with out a two-hander.

 

Rods are two-handed. They are long, like a staff, and fire magical projectiles.

 

What is this thread about? A rod made of wood?

 

A rod... But twice as long.

Rods are real short in Pillars 1

 

How am i supposed to overcompensate with that short stick?!

 

 

 

OK. I can get behind that. Yeah, what's a wizard without a magic staff? Just make 'em longer and have badass mofo animations.

[Katarack21]

 

 

 

I concur, magic ranged weapons feel like their being left out with out a two-hander.

 

Rods are two-handed. They are long, like a staff, and fire magical projectiles.

 

What is this thread about? A rod made of wood?

 

A rod... But twice as long.

Rods are real short in Pillars 1

 

How am i supposed to overcompensate with that short stick?!

 

 

 

OK. I can get behind that. Yeah, what's a wizard without a magic staff? Just make 'em longer and have badass mofo animations.

 

That's exactly it! The rods are two-handed, like you said, but I had to go *look that up* to confirm it. They neither look nor animate like two-handed weapons, and the in-game description even says "Rods are the largest of the magical implements, though can still be easily wielded in one hand."

 

Although they are two-handed weapons in gameplay, the *lore* treats them like big wands, basically, and that's how they're shown being used. So while their is a two-handed ranged magical weapon, it doesn't *feel* like one. It just feels exactly like the other implements.

 

[Lephys]

OK. I can get behind that. Yeah, what's a wizard without a magic staff? Just make 'em longer and have badass mofo animations.

 

... A much more interesting Wizard than the traditional "OH NO, I LOST MY STAFF! NOW I'M USELESS!" Wizard? *shrug*

 

Even in lore like Harry Potter's, in which everyone's always using wands, it's indicated that they're just focus tools (kind of like shouting out the name of your spell) that aren't strictly necessary if you're BAMF enough.

 

I think it's more interesting for a Wizard to simply channel magic through any weapon/implement. I mean, maybe you have to prep it a bit first? But, I just don't see why it needs to be a wand or staff, etc. In Pillars lore, they channel through their grimoires. Which... I think it would be cool if you had a gradual level threshold for which you either needed to actually OPEN your grimoire to channel a higher-level spell, or could simply do the spell without it. And/or just have the option to open your grimoire and read/channel the spell from there at a higher potency, at the cost of maybe a longer cast time or prep time, etc.

 

I've always liked the idea that a novice magic-user needs to rely on tools and methods to help them "shape" the magic into the form it needs to be, but as they get better, they need these things less and less, until they don't need them at all. You wind up with things like faster cast time (don't need to incant the spell, or can take shortcuts, etc.), and a lack of needing to wield/prep some specific tool.

 

Annnnnywho. I'm also all for doing super cool stuff via your staff/implement. I just don't think it should have to be a "classic Wizard tool."

[injurai]

I love seeing a wise old witches/wizards who uses their index finger for magic. Something about it always seemed primal, it's a sign of mastery and affinity with the arcane.

 

That'd be nice a nice animation to include, maybe an late-game item/mastery is simply "free-hand conduit."

[Katarack21]

 

OK. I can get behind that. Yeah, what's a wizard without a magic staff? Just make 'em longer and have badass mofo animation

Even in lore like Harry Potter's, in which everyone's always using wands, it's indicated that they're just focus tools (kind of like shouting out the name of your spell) that aren't strictly necessary if you're BAMF enough.

That's not entirely accurate. Hand magic is rare and difficult and requires a certain amount of raw power; *most* people in fact cannot do it, and even those who can are never as effective without it. The vast majority of witches and wizards *need* wands to practice magic, period.

[Gromnir]

thread is backwards. poe staves is pretty much like traditional d&d staves, no?  can be used as a quarterstaff, but may have additional per-encounter or per-rest powhaz.  rpg grognards would much recognize the poe staff.

 

poe rods and wands is what is different from traditional rpg game roots.  wands and rods get the pew-pew treatment.  a d&d rod, depending on construction, were sometimes usable as a mace or club.  as far as we recall, were never a ranged energy-based weapon with unlimited uses.  whatever ranged capacity a d&d rod had were per-day or per-charge limited.  wands were similar save there were almost never a weapon feature for wands... save for the dreaded wand o' force which inexplicably found its way into the possession o' many a wannabee d&d jedi.

 

personal, the dragon age staves with endless pew-pew is what Gromnir finds wacky.  too much harry potter in our rpg.

 

so, make Gromnir the charter member o' SOS.

 

save our staves.

 

don't want no more harry potter silliness. keep staves as useful and traditional mundane weaponry but with the capacity to kick out the periodic (denotative use) fireball or lightning bolt for mages and druids n' such.

 

...

 

perhaps add an in-game book which explains the failed attempt to add pew-pew to staves?  repeated strikes 'gainst ground while walking  or 'gainst other weapons and combatants resulted in inevitable explosive results. whatever powers rods and wands were found to be dangerous when added to a staff and so the experiment were abandoned after the inventor o' the pew-pew staff, and his apprentices, were all reduced to a state o' quasi-recognizable carbonized cadavers after short-term use o' their wonder staves resulted in brilliant immolation. only remaining pew-pew staves is pure decorative or ornamental.  for funsies the developers could create a pew-pew staff to be discovered in a deadfire scientist or collector's possession, along with copy o' the aforementioned book o' the failed nature o' such.  first attempted use o' the staff results in a fireball centered 'pon the user, and the destruction o' the staff.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited November 14, 2017 by Gromnir

[injurai]

As a fledgling grognard I appreciate the grognard distinctions, but I think much in the way of change is to do with giving ranged magic a reusable bread and butter weapon much like rangers have bows and of course melee with their steel.

 

But for wands, what are they to be under your reign? Eye pokers? If you really want per charge stuff, you have scrolls that can fill a similar feature. Harry Potter seems to win the day in my eyes, which are yet to be poked out.

[Gromnir]

As a fledgling grognard I appreciate the grognard distinctions, but I think much in the way of change is to do with giving ranged magic a reusable bread and butter weapon much like rangers have bows and of course melee with their steel.

 

But for wands, what are they to be under your reign? Eye pokers? If you really want per charge stuff, you have scrolls that can fill a similar feature. Harry Potter seems to win the day in my eyes, which are yet to be poked out.

am not recalling making a suggestion regarding a change to poe wands or rods.  sure, am thinking such implements is kinda silly, but from a game mechanics pov, they have use.  poe rods and wands are alternatives to the otherwise obvious limited nature o' ranged weapon damage types: piercing. wands, scepters and rods (and as far as we know, a scepter is an ornamental rod) fulfill a practical game purpose and in spite o' the harry potter quality o' such implements, we see no reason to do otherwise than leave 'em as is.

 

SOS

 

staves. no mention o' the other implements.  is more than enough pew-pew in the game and all possible damage types is already covered.  no point to add staves.

 

and yes, is a staff and not scarface's little friend.

 

warning: a smidge sweary

 

 

 

 

in all the lotr books, am not recalling gandalf doing pew-pew.  the old wizard's staff produced light, but were not necessarily a function o' the staff. in fact, any overt magic gandalf used in all the books combined were extreme limited, and all less-than-subtle magics were at least potential attributable to his ring as 'posed to the wizard or his staff. not d&d.  not lotr. not traditional for those claiming tradition.

 

folks want scarface and not gandalf? fine.  they already got the pew-pew with three other implements. SOS.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited November 14, 2017 by Gromnir

[Enoch]

I love seeing a wise old witches/wizards who uses their index finger for magic. Something about it always seemed primal, it's a sign of mastery and affinity with the arcane.

[Gromnir]

always preferred our wizards to be o' the ineffable variety. 'course the only good wizard...

 

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Lephys]

That's not entirely accurate. Hand magic is rare and difficult and requires a certain amount of raw power; *most* people in fact cannot do it, and even those who can are never as effective without it. The vast majority of witches and wizards *need* wands to practice magic, period.

 

Fair enough. Didn't know that detail. I only noticed that even the people who CAN do it couldn't do it as a fetus. They had to grow up and gain discipline and knowledge, etc. Essentially, they had to get better at controlling magic. If they have a potential ceiling, they have a potential ceiling, but they still have to climb up to it, IF it's high enough.

 

That was the comparison I was trying to make; the advancement through levels of need for focus tools. But I appreciate the correction/info,

 

 

@Gromnir and the Pew-Pew Staff:

 

Depending on how it works, I don't think the very fact that a staff can let one pew-pew is a terrible idea. In my eyes, it's overly rigid to think that one can conjure a massive meteor storm of cosmic fire, but one cannot simply break that down into, say, a temporary enchantment that puts one spell's worth of resources into a weapon of choice (not necessarily a staff, but the point is that the magic comes from the wielder, not the tool) to allow that caster to spread out the magic, as it were. Like "Oh, look, a bunch of enemies who know I can summon a massive meteor storm if they clump together, so they're all spread out and surrounding us! I'd better charge my staff with my magic so I can use it to sling a little bit of spell out at a time to a whole bunch of different enemies in different directions."

 

Essentially, you could have a per-encounter spell, just like all other spells (so it actually takes up a spell slot, etc.) that makes your staff do ranged magic attacks of a given type for the next 10 attacks or something.

 

You get these enchantments all the time with melee weapons/attacks. Why not ranged? If I can put magical lightning into a sword, why can't I hurl bolts of it out of a weapon? Maybe only the Wizard can do this on his own weapon because arcane control is necessary to actually discharge the enchantment in the form of bolts, whereas enchanting a bow or crossbow actually just transfers the enchantment onto a physical vessel (the bolts/arrows), which then deliver the enchantment to the enemy.

Edited November 14, 2017 by Lephys

[ShadySands]

Hmm, I find the pew pew wand as Harry Potterish

 

That said, I don't want swirly twirly DA staffs either. I'm sure there is a nice middle ground somewhere

Edited November 14, 2017 by ShadySands

[Fardragon]

I think improving the length and animation of rods would be a middle ground that would leave no one disappointed.

[Juodas Varnas]

I think improving the length and animation of rods would be a middle ground that would leave no one disappointed.

I'd be totally OK with the rods being something more like this   

[Lamppost in Winter]

So I don't know if anybody else has noticed, but a couple of enemies in the beta, the Xaurip High Priest and the Engwithan Saint, have staves with a ranged elemental auto-attack. Quarterstaves appear, for now, to remain as melee weapons for players.

[Lord_Mord]

Edit: Originally I wanted to post a bartitsu video, but they look pretty lame Edited November 28, 2017 by Lord_Mord

[MortyTheGobbo]

So I don't know if anybody else has noticed, but a couple of enemies in the beta, the Xaurip High Priest and the Engwithan Saint, have staves with a ranged elemental auto-attack. Quarterstaves appear, for now, to remain as melee weapons for players.

 

Xaurip priests had staves in PoE1, but I don't think they used elemental attacks with them. Unless they were and I just forgot.