Political Twelve Monkeys

[Malcador]

 

 

 

 

Trump admin. to reverse ban on elephant trophies from Africa.

 

America First...

I am sure the information that the hunt helps the species won't be bought.

I have a real personal problem with hunting for reasons other than consumption. But that's me. These hunts take place in other countries in accordance with their laws. It is not the US governments business to tell citizens they can't go to a place they are welcome to do an activity that is legal. And this ban was yet another example of an intrusive nanny state sticking it's nose where it does not belong. If you want the hunts banned you really should be talking to the governments that not only allow but encourage them.

 

As distasteful as I find the activity, free people should be left alone to pursue their interests as long as they are legal where they pursue them.

Well it is part of a global effort to prevent needless killing of animals. You pressure the governments that allow this nonsense that way.

What other countries do is no business of ours. A sentiment I believe I have heard you champion a time or two.

Depends on what they do and is their citizens alone. This particular item is not worth draping in the flag of liberties or what have you given it's probably due to his sons going on these trip, heh.

[smjjames]

The LP, much like every other political party, is not monolithic. There are many different factions. I can sum it all up fairly well by saying there are two schools of thought: The big L libertarians and the little L libertarians. The big L's are the Harry Browne "burn this b---h down" wing. They want maximum freedom, the complete disassembly of everything the federal and state governments are doing that is immoral and unconstitutional and they want it now! These are the ones you see shouting that Gary Johnson wasn't libertarian enough. They are the ideological purists who insist all other schools of thought are oppressive and must be disregarded. This was the group that had run the party from it's inception in 1972 up until about 2004.

 

Since then the majority (myself included) have favored the little L faction. While we may agree on the ends of the big L we do not agree on the means. The problems of overwhelming debt, insurmountable spending deficits, intrusions by the state into our lives that are neither moral or constitutional did not spring up over night and won't be solved overnight. And there is nothing wrong with making common cause and running candidates that mostly agree with us like Gary Johnson. Yep, he was not perfect. The other alternative was John Macafee who was a whole other mess of big L trouble. It seems we run two kinds of candidates. The good ones no one has ever heard of and the unsuitable ones no one will vote for..

Which one would you put Ron and Rand Paul in? They're sort of the Ayn Rand type Libertarian I believe. I know it's not monolithic, but it can be hard to tell where other libertarians stand when all you see is the crazy.

[213374U]

Ben, what makes a sales transaction not a robbery? Consent. What makes sex not a rape? Consent. What makes employment not slavery? Consent. If the employee feels he's getting a bad deal from the employer then the employee is free to go sell his labor to someone else. He's also free to organize with the other employees and bargain collectively with the employer. If I can't find enough miners to dig up my coal for the wages I'm offering then I have two choices: offer higher wages or pick up a shovel. Employment is an agreement both sides enter into freely and can leave freely.

 

Buy the way, you were not free to quit or even choose your job or place of employment in the places where real communism was practiced.

 

What is so hard to understand about the fact that jobs demand is strongly inelastic? You cannot survive without income, and if you have no capital, you cannot have an income without work. So you're not "free" to choose whether to sell your labor or not. You must sell it, at whatever price the market is willing to pay for it.

[Gfted1]

Are multiple failures of a system proof of a good system?

[213374U]

Yep. Capitalism is the worst system in the world. Except for all the others. But you know what it does offer? A path to success that allows even the poorest to climb the ladder to success. I know because I see a guy who did it every day in the mirror.

A broken clock is also right twice a day. I'm really happy for you, but the "rags to riches" idea has been proven to be mostly a (rather useful) myth.

[smjjames]

Are multiple failures of a system proof of a good system?

I don't think there has ever been a system that is 100% failure proof.

[Malcador]

Are multiple failures of a system proof of a good system?

If it has one less than the next best, then yes

[smjjames]

 

 

Are multiple failures of a system proof of a good system?

I don't think there has ever been a system that is even just 10% failure proof.

Fixed that

That wasn't the point I was making

[Gfted1]

[smjjames]

 

 

 

 

Are multiple failures of a system proof of a good system?

I don't think there has ever been a system that is even just 10% failure proof.

Fixed that

That was exactly the point I was trying to make, thank you for pointing out the obvious

you’re welcome

'Fixed it for you' is usually done in good humor and I don't feel like you're doing it that way here at this moment, so cut it out will you.

 

Edit: Gfted1, your image isn't showing up for me, not even a broken image image.

Edited November 16, 2017 by smjjames

[ShadySands]

 

 

Trump admin. to reverse ban on elephant trophies from Africa.

 

America First...

I am sure the information that the hunt helps the species won't be bought.

 

I have a real personal problem with hunting for reasons other than consumption. But that's me. These hunts take place in other countries in accordance with their laws. It is not the US governments business to tell citizens they can't go to a place they are welcome to do an activity that is legal. And this ban was yet another example of an intrusive nanny state sticking it's nose where it does not belong. If you want the hunts banned you really should be talking to the governments that not only allow but encourage them.

 

As distasteful as I find the activity, free people should be left alone to pursue their interests as long as they are legal where they pursue them.

The ban was only on bringing back trophies though, right? We never stopped them from getting their rocks off by killing the animals.

[Gfted1]

Edit: Gfted1, your image isn't showing up for me, not even a broken image image.

Its just a meme. Nothing important.

[smjjames]

Apology accepted, it was just being done in a way that felt like putting words in my mouth than to be funny or ironic.

[ShadySands]

Is Al Franken done?

 

Also, this

 

Ouch! Germany replaces U.S. as country with best global image #MAGA

Edited November 16, 2017 by ShadySands

[smjjames]

The fact that he wants there to be an ethics investigation is a good sign here. Whether he is actually done or not remains to be seen.

[ShadySands]

The fact that he wants there to be an ethics investigation is a good sign here. Whether he is actually done or not remains to be seen.

There is a picture of it in the article

 

 

 

Edited November 16, 2017 by ShadySands

[Hurlshort]

I'm not sure if it is the end of Al Franken, although it wouldn't surprise me. I think it is important to distinguish that his behavior was a terrible attempt at humor, rather than sexual gratification. But that may not really matter if the end result is the same.

[smjjames]

I meant whether he does get expelled or resign remains to be seen, not whether it took place, I know the incident was straight up photographed.

 

@hurlshot: Yeah, he was trying to be funny and instead did something dumb.

Edited November 16, 2017 by smjjames

[HoonDing]

"Trump admin. to reverse ban on elephant trophies from Africa.

America First..."

 

It's because Obama's name was on it

 

he's completely pathetic

Edited November 16, 2017 by HoonDing

[smjjames]

"Trump admin. to reverse ban on elephant trophies from Africa.

America First..."

 

It's because Obama's name was on it

 

he's completely pathetic

Yeah, obviously. "It's something Obama did" is often their rationale, too often, and too easy of a handwaved rationale.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

Ben, what makes a sales transaction not a robbery? Consent. What makes sex not a rape? Consent. What makes employment not slavery? Consent. If the employee feels he's getting a bad deal from the employer then the employee is free to go sell his labor to someone else. He's also free to organize with the other employees and bargain collectively with the employer. If I can't find enough miners to dig up my coal for the wages I'm offering then I have two choices: offer higher wages or pick up a shovel. Employment is an agreement both sides enter into freely and can leave freely.

 

Buy the way, you were not free to quit or even choose your job or place of employment in the places where real communism was practiced.

 

 

What is so hard to understand about the fact that jobs demand is strongly inelastic?

It doesn't jive with ideology.

[ShadySands]

I meant whether he does get expelled or resign remains to be seen, not whether it took place, I know the incident was straight up photographed.

 

@hurlshot: Yeah, he was trying to be funny and instead did something dumb.

Ah, gotcha

[Agiel]

[redneckdevil]

 

Ben, what makes a sales transaction not a robbery? Consent. What makes sex not a rape? Consent. What makes employment not slavery? Consent. If the employee feels he's getting a bad deal from the employer then the employee is free to go sell his labor to someone else. He's also free to organize with the other employees and bargain collectively with the employer. If I can't find enough miners to dig up my coal for the wages I'm offering then I have two choices: offer higher wages or pick up a shovel. Employment is an agreement both sides enter into freely and can leave freely.

 

Buy the way, you were not free to quit or even choose your job or place of employment in the places where real communism was practiced.

What is so hard to understand about the fact that jobs demand is strongly inelastic? You cannot survive without income, and if you have no capital, you cannot have an income without work. So you're not "free" to choose whether to sell your labor or not. You must sell it, at whatever price the market is willing to pay for it.

Or live off the grid.

You only MUST sell and pay the price IF your wanting what they are selling.

Don't wanna pay for power? Go off grid and adapt to not using power.

Want to pay for your toys? Get a job or realize you don't NEED those toys.

Want food? Grow ur own and hunt, trade for food.

 

You don't HAVE to sell yourself at all, your perfectly capable of living without doing so. BUT if u want things that u did not make nor have the knowledge of making, then don't bitch when u gotta sell ur soul and time for modern COMFORTS.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

 

Ben, what makes a sales transaction not a robbery? Consent. What makes sex not a rape? Consent. What makes employment not slavery? Consent. If the employee feels he's getting a bad deal from the employer then the employee is free to go sell his labor to someone else. He's also free to organize with the other employees and bargain collectively with the employer. If I can't find enough miners to dig up my coal for the wages I'm offering then I have two choices: offer higher wages or pick up a shovel. Employment is an agreement both sides enter into freely and can leave freely.

 

Buy the way, you were not free to quit or even choose your job or place of employment in the places where real communism was practiced.

What is so hard to understand about the fact that jobs demand is strongly inelastic? You cannot survive without income, and if you have no capital, you cannot have an income without work. So you're not "free" to choose whether to sell your labor or not. You must sell it, at whatever price the market is willing to pay for it.

 

Or live off the grid.

You only MUST sell and pay the price IF your wanting what they are selling.

Don't wanna pay for power? Go off grid and adapt to not using power.

Want to pay for your toys? Get a job or realize you don't NEED those toys.

Want food? Grow ur own and hunt, trade for food.

 

You don't HAVE to sell yourself at all, your perfectly capable of living without doing so. BUT if u want things that u did not make nor have the knowledge of making, then don't bitch when u gotta sell ur soul and time for modern COMFORTS.

 

The vast majority of people could not live off grid, even if discounting skills or equipment needed because there is simply not enough public land to do so. Sure going off grid and living like a woodsman would be nice, but if you get thrown off where you try to settle it's not a viable option. So to realistically live off grid as you suggest, you have to labor enough to afford to purchase property, which brings us back to the numbersman's point that if you do not own capital you have to work or you will starve. This is indisputable, which brings us to the issue of choice.

 

The choice is ultimately an illusion because of economies of scale. As hinted by our elite friend, demand for jobs is inelastic which means as much as I wish I could land a sweet union gig in manufacturing there's a limited amount of them. I can not wish myself a position there by choice, so to eat I must seek work elsewhere and go down the ladder to whatever I end up on. If it ends in a job I can always quit, but then it's back down the ladder to a likely worse job or unemployment. Now while in this job I have the choice of learning new skills which simply lands me on a better ladder assuming the skills I learned weren't learned en masse and my competition is largely the same, in which case I blew a lot of money and time for nothing. The other choice is to work for years, take out some loans, and start my own business, which if it works is great(technically it did work for me), but in the likely event it doesn't work I'm out a good amount of money and back on the old employment ladder. Last I looked about 96% of businesses fail within 10 years, and while a 4% success rate is fine and dandy to some I'd call a situation where failure is 24x more likely than success to be regarded with some suspicion. If this is truly the best of all systems that have been tried, than something new should be tried.

 

Edited November 17, 2017 by KaineParker