Political Ocean's 11

[Elerond]

Well, adding holidays isn't a terrible thing. Taking away holidays or other types of celebration is. The whole "Muslim Petition to Ban Oktoberfest" was a hoax but there have been a number of local examples of push back in communities with lots of Muslims in Europe, Germany in particular, where local festivals have been the subject of protest and harassment because of alcohol consumption. Plus in Minnesota there was a "Sharia Law" community enforcement a few years back that was so onerous even the local Muslims wanted it shut down. There are a number of States here where the schools are being demanded to educate in Spanish. The very first thing you do when moving to a new country is learn the damned language! I worked in Mexico for six months. I did my best to learn and use Spanish before I ever went down there. I was in Japan for 13 months in the military and tried to learn as much Japanese as I could.

 

It's not an unreasonable thing to ask.

 

Maybe USA should first declare official language   

[Elerond]

 

 

can we please stop with that alt right? Seems like anyone who want to have border these days is alt right. Do you understand there is free education and universal healthcare in most EU states? Its socialistic as it can get

 

Although these parties don't want that to be true in future and they do their best to undermine current systems.

 

 

what system you mean? Democracy?

 

 

Systems that allow free education and universal health care

[Gfted1]

Free? Findland doesnt pay exhorbitant taxes to fund "free" college and UHC for your population smaller than NY?

[Chilloutman]

Free? Findland doesnt pay exhorbitant taxes to fund "free" college and UHC for your population smaller than NY?

 

Well free for end user, in other terms paid from taxes instead of individual student

[Chilloutman]

 

 

 

can we please stop with that alt right? Seems like anyone who want to have border these days is alt right. Do you understand there is free education and universal healthcare in most EU states? Its socialistic as it can get

 

Although these parties don't want that to be true in future and they do their best to undermine current systems.

 

 

what system you mean? Democracy?

 

 

Systems that allow free education and universal health care

 

 

Not sure about that, do they have it in their policies? Anyway its fine as its based on voter want it that way, its called democracy, still its capitalist versus socialist, nothing far right about it (at least not in term I think most people today relate far right to)

[Elerond]

Free? Findland doesnt pay exhorbitant taxes to fund "free" college and UHC for your population smaller than NY?

 

We pay taxes to keep public sector running like any other country. Our policy is that education is public service and therefore it is publicly funded which is generally known as free education, but of course in money based economy there isn't anything that is actually free, only things that person don't directly pay themselves from their own pockets.

[Elerond]

 

 

 

 

can we please stop with that alt right? Seems like anyone who want to have border these days is alt right. Do you understand there is free education and universal healthcare in most EU states? Its socialistic as it can get

 

Although these parties don't want that to be true in future and they do their best to undermine current systems.

 

 

what system you mean? Democracy?

 

 

Systems that allow free education and universal health care

 

 

Not sure about that, do they have it in their policies? Anyway its fine as its based on voter want it that way, its called democracy, still its capitalist versus socialist, nothing far right about it (at least not in term I think most people today relate far right to)

 

 

For example our "close borders, anti EU, anti immigration" party has cut hundreds of millions from education, health care, created policies to make people get private health insurances in their time in government. During elections they said that they would do opposite, but currently they have been very "right wing" in everything that they have done.

[Chilloutman]

 

 

 

 

 

can we please stop with that alt right? Seems like anyone who want to have border these days is alt right. Do you understand there is free education and universal healthcare in most EU states? Its socialistic as it can get

 

Although these parties don't want that to be true in future and they do their best to undermine current systems.

 

 

what system you mean? Democracy?

 

 

Systems that allow free education and universal health care

 

 

Not sure about that, do they have it in their policies? Anyway its fine as its based on voter want it that way, its called democracy, still its capitalist versus socialist, nothing far right about it (at least not in term I think most people today relate far right to)

 

 

For example our "close borders, anti EU, anti immigration" party has cut hundreds of millions from education, health care, created policies to make people get private health insurances in their time in government. During elections they said that they would do opposite, but currently they have been very "right wing" in everything that they have done.

 

 

Well that is sad, they should be hold accountable. 

[Elerond]

 

 

 

 

 

 

can we please stop with that alt right? Seems like anyone who want to have border these days is alt right. Do you understand there is free education and universal healthcare in most EU states? Its socialistic as it can get

 

Although these parties don't want that to be true in future and they do their best to undermine current systems.

 

 

what system you mean? Democracy?

 

 

Systems that allow free education and universal health care

 

 

Not sure about that, do they have it in their policies? Anyway its fine as its based on voter want it that way, its called democracy, still its capitalist versus socialist, nothing far right about it (at least not in term I think most people today relate far right to)

 

 

For example our "close borders, anti EU, anti immigration" party has cut hundreds of millions from education, health care, created policies to make people get private health insurances in their time in government. During elections they said that they would do opposite, but currently they have been very "right wing" in everything that they have done.

 

 

Well that is sad, they should be hold accountable. 

 

 

Polls show that their popularity has dropped from 20% to 8%, so in next elections they probably will lose their place in government.

[smjjames]

 

 

 

 

 

can we please stop with that alt right? Seems like anyone who want to have border these days is alt right. Do you understand there is free education and universal healthcare in most EU states? Its socialistic as it can get

 

Although these parties don't want that to be true in future and they do their best to undermine current systems.

 

 

what system you mean? Democracy?

 

 

Systems that allow free education and universal health care

 

 

Not sure about that, do they have it in their policies? Anyway its fine as its based on voter want it that way, its called democracy, still its capitalist versus socialist, nothing far right about it (at least not in term I think most people today relate far right to)

 

 

For example our "close borders, anti EU, anti immigration" party has cut hundreds of millions from education, health care, created policies to make people get private health insurances in their time in government. During elections they said that they would do opposite, but currently they have been very "right wing" in everything that they have done.

 

 

Sounds like the Republicans, except that they are more 'secure borders', not outright close them. And I don't think the Republicans have any official platform relating to the EU, it's all individual opinion.

[Chilloutman]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

can we please stop with that alt right? Seems like anyone who want to have border these days is alt right. Do you understand there is free education and universal healthcare in most EU states? Its socialistic as it can get

 

Although these parties don't want that to be true in future and they do their best to undermine current systems.

 

 

what system you mean? Democracy?

 

 

Systems that allow free education and universal health care

 

 

Not sure about that, do they have it in their policies? Anyway its fine as its based on voter want it that way, its called democracy, still its capitalist versus socialist, nothing far right about it (at least not in term I think most people today relate far right to)

 

 

For example our "close borders, anti EU, anti immigration" party has cut hundreds of millions from education, health care, created policies to make people get private health insurances in their time in government. During elections they said that they would do opposite, but currently they have been very "right wing" in everything that they have done.

 

 

Well that is sad, they should be hold accountable. 

 

 

Polls show that their popularity has dropped from 20% to 8%, so in next elections they probably will lose their place in government.

 

 

That is good, I am surprised there is no left leaning party which would still want secured borders. (well there is plenty in our country - even commies want them secured )

[Elerond]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

can we please stop with that alt right? Seems like anyone who want to have border these days is alt right. Do you understand there is free education and universal healthcare in most EU states? Its socialistic as it can get

 

Although these parties don't want that to be true in future and they do their best to undermine current systems.

 

 

what system you mean? Democracy?

 

 

Systems that allow free education and universal health care

 

 

Not sure about that, do they have it in their policies? Anyway its fine as its based on voter want it that way, its called democracy, still its capitalist versus socialist, nothing far right about it (at least not in term I think most people today relate far right to)

 

 

For example our "close borders, anti EU, anti immigration" party has cut hundreds of millions from education, health care, created policies to make people get private health insurances in their time in government. During elections they said that they would do opposite, but currently they have been very "right wing" in everything that they have done.

 

 

Well that is sad, they should be hold accountable. 

 

 

Polls show that their popularity has dropped from 20% to 8%, so in next elections they probably will lose their place in government.

 

 

That is good, I am surprised there is no left leaning party which would still want secured borders. (well there is plenty in our country - even commies want them secured )

 

 

Our borders are already very secure, as our longest border is with Russia that is heavily guarded and controlled because of political and historical reasons, our borders with Norway and Sweden are in very north which makes them quite unattractive to larger forms of population traffic. Our southern border is with sea, which means that people coming from that direction needs to use either boats or airplanes which are both heavily regulated forms of transportation, which means that population traffic from that direction is already under control. So main reasons to secure our borders more is to prevent people from other EU countries legally move in Finland and currently only population group that cause notable problems are Romani people from Romania and Bulgaria as they have beggar camps that have caused public disturbance which have made people demanding breaking them down and so on. Although it is Polish and Estonian workers, especially construction workers, that are in our anti-EU party's target as there are lots of them and they are able to work cheaper than Finnish workers can (because of temporal living arrangements, not paying taxes to Finland and having home in country with much cheaper price level).

[Chilloutman]

Our borders are already very secure, as our longest border is with Russia that is heavily guarded and controlled because of political and historical reasons, our borders with Norway and Sweden are in very north which makes them quite unattractive to larger forms of population traffic. Our southern border is with sea, which means that people coming from that direction needs to use either boats or airplanes which are both heavily regulated forms of transportation, which means that population traffic from that direction is already under control. So main reasons to secure our borders more is to prevent people from other EU countries legally move in Finland and currently only population group that cause notable problems are Romani people from Romania and Bulgaria as they have beggar camps that have caused public disturbance which have made people demanding breaking them down and so on. Although it is Polish and Estonian workers, especially construction workers, that are in our anti-EU party's target as there are lots of them and they are able to work cheaper than Finnish workers can (because of temporal living arrangements, not paying taxes to Finland and having home in country with much cheaper price level).

I will cut down that wall of text if you don't mind   Well I was speaking about EU borders and/or immigration quotas as we are part of EU but we don't have any outside borders.

[Guard Dog]

Apparently the penalty in East Orange NJ for not going home after school is a beating and a gun to the face. http://newjersey.news12.com/story/36588998/officer-relieved-of-duty-following-altercation-outside-orange-hs

 

Always remember, there is is no law too small or trivial that your government would not happily kill you to enforce.

[Malcador]

Apparently the penalty in East Orange NJ for not going home after school is a beating and a gun to the face. http://newjersey.news12.com/story/36588998/officer-relieved-of-duty-following-altercation-outside-orange-hs

 

Always remember, there is is no law too small or trivial that your government would not happily kill you to enforce.

The cop feared for his life.

[injurai]

https://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2017/10/14/lies-lies-lies-lies-lies-lies-lies-lies-lies-lies/?smid

 

Solid run down on the discrepancy of the GOP's tax policy claims and the real models.

 

Which also leads me to think all this talk about fake news is just new speak euphemism for what we should really be calling lies.

[Guard Dog]

Wow, Paul Krugman lamenting someone telling lies.

 

[redneckdevil]

okay, i have a question for the swedes since i know y'all have free health coverage and here Sweden is the country held up as the "example', how long does it take to see a doctor or get medical help?  Here in USA our medical expenses are so high that a tv show of a man learning how to make and sell meth to pay for his doctor bills is seen as "realistic" but we can get medical attention for immediate and non immediate health problems in hours and days for a wide variety of ailments and illnesses.  Is it true that in Sweden, that unless its an immediate emergency, u would have to wait months to be treated?  Also is the actual help as good or near as good as ours because i'm wondering if doctors get paid near what we pay ours here?

im not bashing, i would love a free health care system here in america but theres gotta be some give and take to have it for free and was wondering so i thought id ask.

basically, compared to our health care system tic for tac, im wondering what we would have to change and lose to get free health care here.

[redneckdevil]

 

Well, adding holidays isn't a terrible thing. Taking away holidays or other types of celebration is. The whole "Muslim Petition to Ban Oktoberfest" was a hoax but there have been a number of local examples of push back in communities with lots of Muslims in Europe, Germany in particular, where local festivals have been the subject of protest and harassment because of alcohol consumption. Plus in Minnesota there was a "Sharia Law" community enforcement a few years back that was so onerous even the local Muslims wanted it shut down. There are a number of States here where the schools are being demanded to educate in Spanish. The very first thing you do when moving to a new country is learn the damned language! I worked in Mexico for six months. I did my best to learn and use Spanish before I ever went down there. I was in Japan for 13 months in the military and tried to learn as much Japanese as I could.

 

It's not an unreasonable thing to ask.

 

Maybe USA should first declare official language 

 

our official language is war.  tbh we couldn't right now even if we wanted to because due to our current atmosphere, it would be decried as racist, anti-immigrant, and an attack of "the white devils whitewashing muh culture". 

[Hurlshort]

Saturday Night Live is definitely benefiting form the current climate:

 

[Elerond]

okay, i have a question for the swedes since i know y'all have free health coverage and here Sweden is the country held up as the "example', how long does it take to see a doctor or get medical help?  Here in USA our medical expenses are so high that a tv show of a man learning how to make and sell meth to pay for his doctor bills is seen as "realistic" but we can get medical attention for immediate and non immediate health problems in hours and days for a wide variety of ailments and illnesses.  Is it true that in Sweden, that unless its an immediate emergency, u would have to wait months to be treated?  Also is the actual help as good or near as good as ours because i'm wondering if doctors get paid near what we pay ours here?

im not bashing, i would love a free health care system here in america but theres gotta be some give and take to have it for free and was wondering so i thought id ask.

basically, compared to our health care system tic for tac, im wondering what we would have to change and lose to get free health care here.

 

Can't say about Sweden, but in here is how things generally work in Finland

 

You can either use public health care system where you can if you need to see doctor you can go to emergency room if you have acute problem, or reserve time which you can get for same day or next day if you need to see general practitioner, for specialists it may go next week. When it comes to treatments, then non-urgent surgeries are the ones which you may need to wait months before there is free slot in schedule depending on what kind surgery you are needing. Or go to private clinic which there are multitude which offering varies quite lot. In most private clinics that I have used you need to wait max half hour to see doctor gp and usually you can get time for specialist for same day. When it comes to treatments it depends lots of what you need. Most clinics can do simple things, but when it comes to complicated operations then most clinics will give you referral to one of the central hospitals (which are bigger hospitals that have capacities to do complex operations), but there are also private clinics that have capacities to do complex operations, but usually they focus on certain fields. Of course cost of treatments on private clinics can be quite expensive, so it is recommendable to have health insurance (either one that you pay yourself or one that is paid by your employer).

[Zoraptor]

From what I've been reading of Sebastian Kurz he hardly sounds like the racist hate monster the media (here at least) is painting him to be albeit with a soft brush.

 

He isn't- he's just right wing- but the electoral system means that his most likely coalition would involve the Freedom Party who would almost certainly demand a complete stop to muslim immigration. Only other alternative would be a grand left/ right coalition.

[majestic]

Is it true that in Sweden, that unless its an immediate emergency, u would have to wait months to be treated?

 

While I can't speak for Sweden this is definitely not true for a variety of other EU countries (and probably not true for Sweden either, considering Azdeus' stories in the other threads). There are some EU countries with waiting time issues and there's an OECD report on the issue that we've linked the last time this topic came up. I'm a bit too tired to go looking for it but months is generally an overstatement unless you're looking at something like gastric sleeve surgery which has several pre-surgery physical and psychological checkups and a few weeks pre-surgery diet attatched to it.

 

What obviously can and does happen is certain specialists having extremely busy schedules, especially if they're known to be particularily good doctors. It takes me a few weeks, sometimes even two or three months to get a ceckup appointment with my ophthalmologist of choice. Not because our public insurance system is inefficient or awful but because her schedule's that busy - and I'm happy to wait. It's just a checkup after all. *shrug*

[Gfted1]

So you guys get UHC but there is an option to buy private insurance, right? How much more does that cost? Is it a suppliment to your UHC or a completely different insurance plan?

[majestic]

 

From what I've been reading of Sebastian Kurz he hardly sounds like the racist hate monster the media (here at least) is painting him to be albeit with a soft brush.

 

He isn't- he's just right wing- but the electoral system means that his most likely coalition would involve the Freedom Party who would almost certainly demand a complete stop to muslim immigration. Only other alternative would be a grand left/ right coalition.

 

Technically there's the possibility of a socialist/freedom party coalition. Wouldn't that be fun, a government that's both nationalist and socialist* in Austria of all places. What could possibly go wrong?

 

*Just run with the joke. And for the Jonah Goldberg crew, well... consider yourselves the joke here.