Deadfire vs Divinity OS 2

[Wormerine]

Pillars of Eternity 1 has no trash items.

hmm.... no trash items? What about Xaurip's spears? PoE had A LOT of trash items but with stash they were easy to seperate from stuff you wanted to keep. 

Edited October 1, 2017 by Wormerine

[Arsene Lupin]

Pillars of Eternity has more trash items than any other game that doesn't think "loot" is a selling point. Every time I meet a vendor, I end up selling a ton of generic weapons, armors, and items for around 20k.

 

Anyway, back on topic....

 

DOS2 sets a high bar. It is, arguably, the first game to really raise the bar for CRPGs since Shadows of Amn. And like Shadows of Amn, I don't think it's likely that many (if any) other games will even *attempt* to reach the same level, let alone achieve or surpass it. And, really that's the real comparison here: Larian is trying to create a *new* standard for CRPG excellence, whereas Obsidian is aiming for the *old* standard. And I think the market (and community, at least outside of the more toxic locales) is sufficiently diverse and broad-minded for both.

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

 

Pillars of Eternity 1 has no trash items.

hmm.... no trash items? What about Xaurip's spears? PoE had A LOT of trash items but with stash they were easy to seperate from stuff you wanted to keep. 

 

 

Better wording would have been "no junk magic items," perhaps.

 

Have you played D:OS 2 yet?

 

DOS2 has an essentially infinite array of "junk" magic items. They have to; because each party member might have a random mix of skills and stats depending on how they're built, the game has to fart out an endless stream of random-bonus items at you to ensure you eventually find some fraction that are useful to your particular character. There are a few unique designed magic items scattered around, but most of what you find is vendor trash, even the "epics" and "legendaries." 

 

In contrast all the magic items in PoE are designed. Even most of the seemingly random ones are well-designed enough that you could theoretically make a character around them (sigh for the nerfed Vile Loner Lance debuff barbarian). 

 

Net result is that in PoE a lot of the gameplay is driven by seeking out specific items to enhance your party's current builds, while in Divinity a lot of the gameplay is just re-checking vendors every so often until something you can use pops up. 

 

 

 

Pillars of Eternity has more trash items than any other game that doesn't think "loot" is a selling point. Every time I meet a vendor, I end up selling a ton of generic weapons, armors, and items for around 20k.

 

Anyway, back on topic....

 

DOS2 sets a high bar. It is, arguably, the first game to really raise the bar for CRPGs since Shadows of Amn. And like Shadows of Amn, I don't think it's likely that many (if any) other games will even *attempt* to reach the same level, let alone achieve or surpass it. And, really that's the real comparison here: Larian is trying to create a *new* standard for CRPG excellence, whereas Obsidian is aiming for the *old* standard. And I think the market (and community, at least outside of the more toxic locales) is sufficiently diverse and broad-minded for both.

 

Well, I'd argue that PoE "raised the bar" in a lot of ways, but most of them were incremental -- PoE's goal was to make you feel the way you did when you first played Shadows of Amn, which is actually a lot harder than just remaking SoA, because we're all older now and expect more and computers are fancier and so forth.

 

I'm about halfway through D:OS 2 now and it's an excellent game, and definitely raising the bar in a lot of ways. The main strength though is one that DOS 1 had also -- excellent tactical combat. The differences between DOS 1 and DOS 2 are:

 

a) Better Writing across the board. 

 

b) Better Encounter Design. 

 

Those two tie together: each combat encounter feels meaningful, each one is slightly different, each one matters narratively. Even the few "trash" fight encounters (voidwoken on the beach, etc.) serve to further the story and raise questions ("why are the voidwoken following me here even when no one's using source magic?"). Even the Fort Joy magisters don't turn entirely into faceless stormtroopers -- they all have names, they're fighting you for a reason, etc. Even the random zombie you dig up while treasure hunting before you hit town -- even there, the zombie has a grave marker and the  marker tells you about the island.

 

 

Net result is the game and the story carry you along very immersively . . until later in the game when you find yourself spending all your time shopping and selling rather than adventuring.

Edited October 1, 2017 by Dr. Hieronymous Alloy

[Karkarov]

DOS2 sets a high bar. It is, arguably, the first game to really raise the bar for CRPGs since Shadows of Amn.

Wait what???  No, not really.  Plenty of CRPG's (is that even a thing anymore?) have raised to bar since then.  Morrowind's extreme level of freedom and open world, unique multiplayer integration of games like the Souls series, even Original Sin 1 pretty much did every 2 did first, since 2 is just 1 with some slight gameplay enhancements/balances and a better story.

[bonarbill]

 

DOS2 sets a high bar. It is, arguably, the first game to really raise the bar for CRPGs since Shadows of Amn.

Wait what???  No, not really.  Plenty of CRPG's (is that even a thing anymore?) have raised to bar since then.  Morrowind's extreme level of freedom and open world, unique multiplayer integration of games like the Souls series, even Original Sin 1 pretty much did every 2 did first, since 2 is just 1 with some slight gameplay enhancements/balances and a better story.

 

 

Morrwind is not a CRPG.  

Edited October 1, 2017 by bonarbill

[Varana]

And I am the Emperor of China.

[Celeras]

What is DOS2 like? I played a little bit of the first one and didn't really enjoy it. It was a little too 'Diabloish' in my opinion.

[smjjames]

 

Pillars of Eternity 1 has no trash items.

hmm.... no trash items? What about Xaurip's spears? PoE had A LOT of trash items but with stash they were easy to seperate from stuff you wanted to keep.

 

Yes there were a lot of trash items, provides an ample cash source though.

 

 

 

 

 

DOS2 sets a high bar. It is, arguably, the first game to really raise the bar for CRPGs since Shadows of Amn.

Wait what???  No, not really.  Plenty of CRPG's (is that even a thing anymore?) have raised to bar since then.  Morrowind's extreme level of freedom and open world, unique multiplayer integration of games like the Souls series, even Original Sin 1 pretty much did every 2 did first, since 2 is just 1 with some slight gameplay enhancements/balances and a better story.

 

 

Morrwind is not a CRPG.  

 

 

For a second I read that as homonid as I scrolled past, not morrowind, lol me.

Edited October 2, 2017 by smjjames

[Arsene Lupin]

Yeah... a CRPG is broadly defined as a top-down party-based roleplaying game. So, after Shadows of Amn, these are really the only big games to look at:

 

• Icewind Dale II
• Neverwinter Nights
• Neverwinter Nights 2
• Shadowrun Returns
• Dragon Age Origins
• Wasteland 2
• Pillars of Eternity
• Blackguards
• Blackguards 2
• Divinity Original Sin
• Divinity Original Sin 2
• And I'm sure I'm forgetting somehing.

...And of those games, none of them really tried to be bigger or better than Shadows of Amn, save for DOS2. I mean, yeah, maybe Deadfire will, too, but when asked during the campaign, Obsidian said that the scope of Deadfire would be smaller than SoA, and that it simply wasn't feasible to develop RPGs on that scale today. Couple that with the fact that DOS2 was developed with a much larger budget than Obsidian has for Deadfire, it's unfair to expect them to be equally ambitious. I've no doubt that Deadfire will be an excellent game, and it will likely eclipse PoE1--and possibly Shadows of Amn itself, or more likely come near to it--but that's it.

 

And I think that's plenty.

 

 

What is DOS2 like? I played a little bit of the first one and didn't really enjoy it. It was a little too 'Diabloish' in my opinion.

 

It's a turn-based tactical RPG with an enormous focus on player freedom, both mechanically and within the narrative (IE quests have multiple solutions). It has the most ambitious narrative of any RPG ever made, with a half dozen different companions (any one of which can be the player character) with tons of unique dialog from virtually every NPC in the game based on the player-characters tags (4 or 5 you get from the start, others you earn depending on your actions). Not to mention a very complex and challenging combat system with a lot of room for experimentation and build diversity.

 

 

It is *nothing* like Diablo, so I very much doubt you played any of DOS1. Perhaps you're thinking of Divine Divinity?

[Karkarov]

Morrwind is not a CRPG. 

I guess I am confused.  See I thought CRPG means Computer Role Playing Game.  As in, a Role Playing Game designed for Computer.  Which Morrowind definitely is. 

 

Arsene.... yeah, you are missing quite a few.  I am glad you think DOS:2 is some sort of second coming, it isn't, but it is an okay game.

[Celeras]

Yeah... a CRPG is broadly defined as a top-down party-based roleplaying game. So, after Shadows of Amn, these are really the only big games to look at:

 

• Icewind Dale II
• Neverwinter Nights
• Neverwinter Nights 2
• Shadowrun Returns
• Dragon Age Origins
• Wasteland 2
• Pillars of Eternity
• Blackguards
• Blackguards 2
• Divinity Original Sin
• Divinity Original Sin 2
• And I'm sure I'm forgetting somehing.

...And of those games, none of them really tried to be bigger or better than Shadows of Amn, save for DOS2. I mean, yeah, maybe Deadfire will, too, but when asked during the campaign, Obsidian said that the scope of Deadfire would be smaller than SoA, and that it simply wasn't feasible to develop RPGs on that scale today. Couple that with the fact that DOS2 was developed with a much larger budget than Obsidian has for Deadfire, it's unfair to expect them to be equally ambitious. I've no doubt that Deadfire will be an excellent game, and it will likely eclipse PoE1--and possibly Shadows of Amn itself, or more likely come near to it--but that's it.

 

And I think that's plenty.

 

 

What is DOS2 like? I played a little bit of the first one and didn't really enjoy it. It was a little too 'Diabloish' in my opinion.

 

It's a turn-based tactical RPG with an enormous focus on player freedom, both mechanically and within the narrative (IE quests have multiple solutions). It has the most ambitious narrative of any RPG ever made, with a half dozen different companions (any one of which can be the player character) with tons of unique dialog from virtually every NPC in the game based on the player-characters tags (4 or 5 you get from the start, others you earn depending on your actions). Not to mention a very complex and challenging combat system with a lot of room for experimentation and build diversity.

 

 

It is *nothing* like Diablo, so I very much doubt you played any of DOS1. Perhaps you're thinking of Divine Divinity?

 

Uh, no I'm talking about Divinity: Original Sin. I did everything in the first area. Killed all the undead, the orcs, etc. Talked to every single NPC I could talk too, and nothing really stood out to me as something you would see in a CRPG. It felt very similar to a Diablo game to me, but maybe its because I never really got much farther than the first area.

 

I mean, I guess there is that one quest with the guy with the talking head that was kind of interesting, but other than that, it was all pretty bland imo.

Edited October 2, 2017 by Celeras

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

Yeah... a CRPG is broadly defined as a top-down party-based roleplaying game. So, after Shadows of Amn, these are really the only big games to look at:

 

• Icewind Dale II
• Neverwinter Nights
• Neverwinter Nights 2
• Shadowrun Returns
• Dragon Age Origins
• Wasteland 2
• Pillars of Eternity
• Blackguards
• Blackguards 2
• Divinity Original Sin
• Divinity Original Sin 2
• And I'm sure I'm forgetting somehing.

...And of those games, none of them really tried to be bigger or better than Shadows of Amn, save for DOS2. I mean, yeah, maybe Deadfire will, too, but when asked during the campaign, Obsidian said that the scope of Deadfire would be smaller than SoA, and that it simply wasn't feasible to develop RPGs on that scale today. Couple that with the fact that DOS2 was developed with a much larger budget than Obsidian has for Deadfire, it's unfair to expect them to be equally ambitious. I've no doubt that Deadfire will be an excellent game, and it will likely eclipse PoE1--and possibly Shadows of Amn itself, or more likely come near to it--but that's it.

 

 

 

 

Ehhh, I think this depends on how you define "Bigger" and "Better."

 

PoE 1 with White March is a massive, massive game. I've got something over six hundred hours in PoE clocked on Steam, and that's not counting time I spent in the beta.  BG 2 is a huge game also, but after a certain point, you're just comparing elephants; both are exhaustively huge.

 

In terms of mechanics, PoE benefits from  roughly fifteen year's worth of game design, UI design, and hardware/software design improvements. 

 

In terms of writing and narrative yeah I'll grant BG 2 is superior to PoE 1, but PoE 1's writing is definitely superior to BG1; we won't really have a fair comparison there till PoE 2 comes out (this is to be expected since the pattern with these games seems to be "first game is for the engine, second game is for the writing and encounters"). 

 

DoS 2 is a great game -- especially for the first thirty or so hours of play -- but it's got some real flaws too (for example, the crafting system in DoS 1 was markedly superior to the crafting in DoS 2 -- to the point that I half-suspect stuff was cut for later DLC  -- and the randomized items become a real pain as I mentioned above). 

 

 

I'll say this: if PoE 2 improves on PoE 1 to the same degree that BG 2 improved on BG 1 or DoS 2 improved on DOS1, then we're living in a new golden age of party-based computerized roleplaying games.

Edited October 2, 2017 by Dr. Hieronymous Alloy

[daven]

I bought Divinity Original Sin 2 after some of the glowing comments by people on here.

 

The camera annoyed me so much that I stopped playing after 45 minutes and have had no desire to put it back on!

[Sedrefilos]

I bought Divinity Original Sin 2 after some of the glowing comments by people on here.

 

The camera annoyed me so much that I stopped playing after 45 minutes and have had no desire to put it back on!

Since companies don't provide us with free demos these days, a few watches of different "let's play" youtube videos are highly recommended before any buy, imo.

Personally, after withstanding the camera of NW2, the worst camera ever, imo, and that of DA:I, I had no problem with DOS2's camera, which I don't find any bad at all actually.

[eRqzor]

Hi there, I've backed Deadfire yesterday just because I was sad of having finished DOS:II. Almost 180 hours played from beta and 90h to finish the fame with some sidequests not all. Obviously we are on Obsidian forums and it seems normal to read PoE fans but I read some violent comment on DOS:II. Ok I'm a big fan of DOS and a big fan of PoE even Tyranny was great piece of unfinished game. Wasteland II was a masterpiece even in its early release day.

 

In general i'm a big fan of cRPG and what is really important in those game is story and so author's writing skills. As some people said DOS:II really raised the bar of cRPG with good battle (less broken angles than XCOM:2) and balance, very deep and rich story (if I can feel something from character the game is all good), nice level design, PoE was also great with its world, the background was really good and some quests were masterpieces. Like other said it has bring back the spirit of old cRPG. I have some more enjoyed PoE than Wasteland II which are is the same backyard IMO. Like somebody else said Larian is really creating his own landmark and promoting a certain standard in ©RPG. IMO Divinity II is quite an 3D-isometric Witcher III.

 

There is something i'm sure : if you like cRPG or tactical RPG the future is bright. Divinity II (2017), PoE II (2018), Wasteland III (2019)... Also No Truce with Furries. Maybe some others to discover. But for me Obsidian, Larian and inXile are my first class dope provider. 

[daven]

 

I bought Divinity Original Sin 2 after some of the glowing comments by people on here.

 

The camera annoyed me so much that I stopped playing after 45 minutes and have had no desire to put it back on!

Since companies don't provide us with free demos these days, a few watches of different "let's play" youtube videos are highly recommended before any buy, imo.

Personally, after withstanding the camera of NW2, the worst camera ever, imo, and that of DA:I, I had no problem with DOS2's camera, which I don't find any bad at all actually.

 

OK good point, NWN 2's camera is horrendous. How did they release the final game in that state?! And it's never been fixed!

 

I shall attempt to try it again, maybe it just requires some getting used to.

[morhilane]

 

 

I bought Divinity Original Sin 2 after some of the glowing comments by people on here.

 

The camera annoyed me so much that I stopped playing after 45 minutes and have had no desire to put it back on!

Since companies don't provide us with free demos these days, a few watches of different "let's play" youtube videos are highly recommended before any buy, imo.

Personally, after withstanding the camera of NW2, the worst camera ever, imo, and that of DA:I, I had no problem with DOS2's camera, which I don't find any bad at all actually.

 

OK good point, NWN 2's camera is horrendous. How did they release the final game in that state?! And it's never been fixed!

 

I shall attempt to try it again, maybe it just requires some getting used to.

 

 

It actually takes going into the game options and turning a few things on. By default the camera doesn't auto pan when you move near the edge and the cursor isn't locked to the window either.

 

After you have done that, the only thing you really need to control is the rotation with the mid-mouse button (unless you remap that elsewhere).

[Nail]

D:OS2 will take around 120 hours of interesting gameplay.

Glad for different choices, interesting story.

My expectations for arena mode were way bigger... no export / import character (I liked this option in BG1, BG2 etc. very much).

Still it's a great product.

No problems with camera - use wasd or arrows and "home" / "end" buttons to center your char.

Edited October 2, 2017 by Nail

[Fardragon]

Given it's power I found DOS2's camera quite easy to control with a combination of mouse and keyboard. It certianly is a lot easier than NWN2!

[Varana]

Yeah... a CRPG is broadly defined as a top-down party-based roleplaying game.

That's only a subset of CRPGs. Neither top-down nor party-based are part of the definition. In fact, many CRPGs from way, way back were first person (take for example Eye of the Beholder, Lands of Lore, the Wizardry series, or Might&Magic - i.e. the style that Grimrock tried to resurrect), and while solo protagonists came a bit later (afaik), that's at least as old as Ultima Underworld (1992), or even older if you include subgenres like Roguelikes and MUDs in the definition.

Edited October 2, 2017 by Varana

[MaxQuest]

Given it's power I found DOS2's camera quite easy to control with a combination of mouse and keyboard. It certianly is a lot easier than NWN2!

I have just installed it last evening. And tbh I've found the camera controls weird as well.

It took me awhile to find the option for edge panning. But am still looking how to rotate camera while right mousebutton is kept pressed. Plus the option for bigger font size.

 

P.S. I got used to the abomination of NWN2 camera relatively fast. It ended up more like 3rd person, than the isometric though.

Edited October 2, 2017 by MaxQuest

[Jozape]

 

 

I bought Divinity Original Sin 2 after some of the glowing comments by people on here.

 

The camera annoyed me so much that I stopped playing after 45 minutes and have had no desire to put it back on!

Since companies don't provide us with free demos these days, a few watches of different "let's play" youtube videos are highly recommended before any buy, imo.

Personally, after withstanding the camera of NW2, the worst camera ever, imo, and that of DA:I, I had no problem with DOS2's camera, which I don't find any bad at all actually.

 

OK good point, NWN 2's camera is horrendous. How did they release the final game in that state?! And it's never been fixed!

 

I shall attempt to try it again, maybe it just requires some getting used to.

 

Sawyer has said that they tried to make several cameras to try to please everyone but in the end they made none of them well and pleased no one. Personally I didn't find it that bad after several hours of playing and trying the different cameras. Takes getting used to though.

[Wormerine]

Sawyer has said that they tried to make several cameras to try to please everyone but in the end they made none of them well and pleased no one. Personally I didn't find it that bad after several hours of playing and trying the different cameras. Takes getting used to though.

You can get used to many things. I always find 3D view and rotatable camera in topdown games annoying. While I understand that making game isometrics brings a set of design challenges I feel it works much better for players side. NWN2 camera was special though.

[Gregorovitch]

Just to say I'm having a blast with DOS2 playing SP right now.

 

Some people are whining about the new armour rules that stop you applying debuffs and effects before you've chewed through the armour, but really what that does is stop people pressing their favourite "I win button" on turn 1 of every encounter, it makes the game harder and more interesting basically. Makes you think hard about both builds and tactics.

 

Some are whining that Explorer difficulty is way, way too hard for them. Others are whining that Tactician difficulty is way, way too easy. Well tactician difficulty is a few steps harder than PoE PotD, utterly brutal and unforgiving eearly game. Explorer diffuculty is a signifiacntly harder than PoE story mode simply becasue you actually have to take your turns and decide for yourself what to do, PoE you can just turn on party AI and watch to a large extent I beleive (although I admit to never having played other than hard and PotD so I don't really know).

 

Someone suggested DOS2 was dumbed down? Piffle.

 

Although I loved both I preferred PoE over DOS1 mainly because on balance I slightly prefer RTwP but mostly becasue I found the DOS1 story and dialog a bit too tongue-in-cheek, cheesy and cartoony for my taste. DOS2 has fixed this for me big time. It is still sometimes hilariously funny but in a more adult and less cheesy way, but it also has a much darker and more serious edge to it than the first one.

 

DOS2 is a bangin' classic hard core cRPG IMO. Fully voice acted, and very well too. No pressure then Josh

Edited October 3, 2017 by Gregorovitch

[Arsene Lupin]

The only thing I don't like about DOS2 is that they made the transparency circle much smaller compared to DOS1 (that halo around the player character that renders any terrain elements between the camera and character invisible), which is super distracting. Really hope they change that in a patch, or add in an option to adjust the radius in the menu.