Baldurs gate

[213374U]

(I'm not as familiar with how the modders are adapting to the new EE environment and whether there are actually quality mods that take advantage of the stuff numbers mentions, so maybe when that actually delivers, EE becomes a worthwhile purchase. We'll see if it happens. I'm pretty OK with what the last 10 years of modding achieved.)

 

To be honest: not so much. But I haven't kept up with IE mod development for more than a year, so maybe it picked up. The guy to ask would be CoM_Solaufein, but I haven't seen him  for a while. Can you mods like @page each other or something?

 

Of course, if you're comfortable with the originals and have no interest in recent mods or the QoL improvements, then yes, there's little reason to pick up the EEs, I guess. The new content alone     —Dragonspear notwithstanding— doesn't warrant it. I also respect boycotting the dev due to their business model or practices — I do it myself with other devs. The UI complaints are subjective, though. As I said, I barely noticed any changes. And at any rate, the new UI, ugly as it may be, IS an improvement over BG1's. Installing a ton of mods and BGT/BP isn't trivial.

 

@Bart: well, the Beamdog modding subforum is pretty active... for a 15+ year old modding community. Also staples like Spell/Item Revisions were being updated for the EEs, and Kit Revisions hadn't been totally abandoned.

 

edit: seriously, this board's autoformatting is atrocious. Kill it with fire!

Edited February 12, 2017 by 213374U

[Bartimaeus]

It's hard for me to see it as being "pretty active", because it's like...it's just little tiny mods being worked on, and it's not even very many. I remember like 5 years ago when it was like, holy crap, ToBEx was making all these amazing changes and modders were actually starting to take advantage of it...and then EE was announced, and it's like everything significant totally died (edit: outside of simply making compatible for EE, I guess). I don't fully understand *why* everything died right then, since it seems like there should've been more activity rather than less...but it did.
 
In regards to the forums' auto-formatting, yeah, it's horrid, and something they did in like the past year made it so you basically can't use the BBCode Mode anymore (which is what I used to always use)...or at least I can't anymore on Firefox. Very annoying.

Edited February 12, 2017 by Bartimaeus

[kanisatha]

Yeah I'll join @213374U in defending the Beamdog EEs. To each their own. For me, finding and using mods is stupid and I don't have any interest in doing it, so having the EEs run flawlessly on my very new machine is awesome. And views on the new UI are entirely subjective. I consider the new UI to be awesome and a huge improvement over the ridiculous "classic" UI. And the new content (both quests and characters) is indeed hit and miss, just like the original games which also had their share of crappy content in them. Nostalgia is ok, but clinging to the past for its own same is not for me, which is something I've also stated with respect to the IE purists who attack PoE for not being IE-ish enough.

[Chilloutman]

For everyone else, since Bart has already made his decision; get the original, hands. down.

 

It takes 10 minutes to learn how to apply a WeiDu mod, and then it's totally up to you whether you just use the widescreen & widescreen UI mods, or you go with 7 or 70 different mods. If you like customising your experience you have the total collection of available modifications, and if you just like playing the original experience then this is the original experience - with ten years of bugfixes and modern resolutions. 

 

Alternatively you could pay twice the money for an 'Enhanced' edition which comes packaged with an uglier UI and a few pieces of poor quality content - added by a combination of a few actual veteran devs/mods and others who had nothing to do with making BG a good game in the first place. And then you will not be guaranteed as extensive mod compatibility. Now, it's not a broken game, or a game that they butchered all over the place. Once you ignore their stupid new UI, and a few other limitations, it's much the same experience as the original games. Which raises the question: why does this exist? Why do you need to pay double price for it? Why bother? 

 

(I'm not as familiar with how the modders are adapting to the new EE environment and whether there are actually quality mods that take advantage of the stuff numbers mentions, so maybe when that actually delivers, EE becomes a worthwhile purchase. We'll see if it happens. I'm pretty OK with what the last 10 years of modding achieved.)

 

---

 

It's a separate discussion re. Beamdog's business strategy - I wouldn't say don't buy a product that is good value for the player just because the company is dislikeable. In fact, they're not even dislikeable, I just find their existence pointless. Years in business, all they've done is rake in far more money than their work deserves because they got to score a great game to 'remaster', while the actual work they've done with these games is either 'meh' or 'awful'. The "Enhanced" editions aren't enhanced - they don't sport anything near a general across-the-board set of improvements that benefit all users. They are nice for people who want to play on tablets without fuss, or people who for some mysterious reason refuse to spend 10 minutes installing a simple mod, or, I don't know, people who think the ability to zoom in blurrily on painted backgrounds is so great they'll pay for it. For everyone else, it's not a 'bad' product (at least, not after they fixed all the bugs they relaunched a 10 year old game with) - it's a pointless product by a pointless company.

Hush, stop making long posts and go play BG2 already

[Blarghagh]

Honestly most of the basic fixpacks, restoration mods and tactics stuff I like have been moved over to EE at this point and that's all I need anyway. Most mods that add something are pretty bad, IMO. I've yet to see a companion mod or something that was any good. EE works fine now, and if you don't like their new additions, well, there's about a million mods to remove them. I got what I need.

[Bartimaeus]

Yeah, I've never been a big fan of "content" mods, either. Always been more a fan of mods that fix and revise what's already there...

[Vaeliorin]

I got all 3 EE's for 20 bucks, so I don't feel I really overpaid for them (and it's nice to not have to dig out my discs), but the main reason I bought them was that I could never get the Widescreen mod to work.  Yes, I can install mods (I've installed a bunch in the original versions of BG/2) but despite following all the instructions and troubleshooting I could find on the interwebs, the Widescreen mod always left me with the game stuck in a tiny corner of the screen with the rest of the screen black.

 

Also, I thought the original UI for all the IE games was pretty terrible, so the EE version isn't particularly any worse (though it's not necessarily any better.)  I seem to recall it had some information that was missing in the original UI, or at least made that information more easily accessible...it's been a while since I've played them.

 

But yeah, $20 each or whatever they're priced at normally is a ridiculous price for them.

[Tigranes]

Tigranes, that sounds confusing. That is the appeal of EE. It makes a classic accessible. It also opens it up to a much younger audience. That makes plenty of sense as a business model and probably helps the rpg genre as a whole.

 

Installing one or two mods that takes 10 minutes is confusing? 

 

Or are you saying my post was confusing? Because it's a post about what EE offers. It shouldn't be confusing - any halfway competent enhanced edition should be an 'obvious buy' for most people. But it isn't. It's a hodgepodge of improvements that may benefit specific people like tablet players, frustrating and incompetent devolutions like the UI, and substandard forgettable 'whatever' additions like most of their content.

 

"Opens it up to a much younger audience"? That's true from a marketing point of view. From a consumer's point of view, wondering what is the best version of the game, that has nothing to do with anything. Or do you mean in terms of the genre as a whole? I don't see how it helps to have a studio that has raked in cash from three separate releases without really showing they are competent enough to make a good RPG - the spotlight should go to people who actually make good games and work hard for their publicity.

Edited February 13, 2017 by Tigranes

[Hurlshort]

 

Tigranes, that sounds confusing. That is the appeal of EE. It makes a classic accessible. It also opens it up to a much younger audience. That makes plenty of sense as a business model and probably helps the rpg genre as a whole.

 

Installing one or two mods that takes 10 minutes is confusing? 

 

 

 

 

It takes 10 minutes to learn how to apply a WeiDu mod, and then it's totally up to you whether you just use the widescreen & widescreen UI mods, or you go with 7 or 70 different mods. If you like customising your experience you have the total collection of available modifications, and if you just like playing the original experience then this is the original experience - with ten years of bugfixes and modern resolutions. 

 

 

These are two very different statements.

 

edit:  Also, I have four different copies of Evil Dead. They have different cases and somewhat different bonus features, but they are all the same movie. That isn't an issue, I don't know why Beamdog is an issue for you. If you are a fan of the game, it should be a good thing that they can run a business model off milking the franchise. It doesn't diminish the original in any way.

Edited February 13, 2017 by Hurlshot

[Tigranes]

No, they aren't. Nobody said you should install 70 different mods for the original experience, or that you have to go through all those steps to make the original playable. If you're the kind to install a lot of mods, you have to do that whether you get the originals or the EEs. You seem to be glazing over everything. To suggest that buying EE is 'simpler' than playing the original would be a misrepresentation of both my argument, and the actual facts. 

 

I've constantly said there are two distinct matters. I think Beamdog is a pointless company, but that's an opinion based on the separate and earlier judgment that their product isn't very good. What I think of Beamdog is also less relevant, even to me, than what I think of their product. I've never said people shouldn't buy a product that represents value for them just because they don't like the company. I've in fact said for a specific minority, e.g. tablet players, the EE can be a worthwhile purchase. I haven't claimed that the EEs 'diminish' the originals, either. So I don't know what you are really going on about. 

Edited February 13, 2017 by Tigranes

[Hurlshort]

I suppose that makes two of us. 

[213374U]

 If you're the kind to install a lot of mods, you have to do that whether you get the originals or the EEs.

 

Minus fixpacks, BGT/Tutu, ToBEx mods*, and Widescreen, naturally.

 

 

*dammit Beamdog, WHY U NO INCLUDE FACESTAB?!

[Agiel]

Being actually my second favourite Infinity Engine game, I'd be a fairly happy camper if an Enhanced Edition for Icewind Dale II came out. The base game didn't even get a proper widescreen mod for crying out loud.

Edited February 14, 2017 by Agiel

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

If you're the kind to install a lot of mods, you have to do that whether you get the originals or the EEs.

 

Minus fixpacks, BGT/Tutu, ToBEx mods*, and Widescreen, naturally.

 

 

*dammit Beamdog, WHY U NO INCLUDE FACESTAB?!

 

Apparently you can still install BGT for the EEs if you want, at least BWS has the option anyways. But for now I'm fairly content with the modded versions and will maybe retry the EEs in 2018 if EEAscension is ever finished or IR, KR, and SR get their latest versions finished.

[Mamoulian War]

All 3 EEs now on sale on GOG. Getting both classic and enhanced games for 6€ is not bad deal IMO.

[fist13]

All 3 EEs now on sale on GOG. Getting both classic and enhanced games for 6€ is not bad deal IMO.

I saw that to and will buy both of them so then I`ll get both the ees and originals

[fist13]

How is Icewind Dale 1 and 2 äre they any good ?

[Ganrich]

How is Icewind Dale 1 and 2 äre they any good ?

Linear, but the combat is good. They have ok stories. You build your party, and go. No, companions like the other I.E. games. I think 1 is all around the better of the two, but I love 2 for its use of a rendition of 3rd edition. It makes 2 stand out a bit. If you've never played them then I think they are worth it. Just don't expect Baldur's Gate.

[fist13]

 

How is Icewind Dale 1 and 2 äre they any good ?

Linear, but the combat is good. They have ok stories. You build your party, and go. No, companions like the other I.E. games. I think 1 is all around the better of the two, but I love 2 for its use of a rendition of 3rd edition. It makes 2 stand out a bit. If you've never played them then I think they are worth it. Just don't expect Baldur's Gate.

 

Ok many thanks

Edited February 14, 2017 by fist13

[Mamoulian War]

I really loved the atmosphere of IWD 1 and fell in love with it. I also enjoyed it more than BG1 and almost as much as BG2.

 

If you never played it, and enjoyed BG2, I would recommend you to try out this game as well. IWD2 on other hand. Well I love playable unusual races, but I enjoyed IWD1 much much more.

[Ganrich]

I really loved the atmosphere of IWD 1 and fell in love with it. I also enjoyed it more than BG1 and almost as much as BG2.

If you never played it, and enjoyed BG2, I would recommend you to try out this game as well. IWD2 on other hand. Well I love playable unusual races, but I enjoyed IWD1 much much more.

Yeah, I definitely forgot atmosphere. It is great in the first game. Also, the soundtrack of both games are really good too.

[Mamoulian War]

Oh yeah. I completely forgotten about the soundtrack. It was really awesome. IMO one of the best gaming soundtracks ever!

[Bartimaeus]

I think it's called a trilogy because story-wise, it's BG1, BG2, and then Throne of Bhaal. Tales of the Sword Coast, beyond also being pretty bad outside of Durlag's Tower, has no meaning to the overarching plot.

[FlintlockJazz]

I think it's called a trilogy because story-wise, it's BG1, BG2, and then Throne of Bhaal. Tales of the Sword Coast, beyond also being pretty bad outside of Durlag's Tower, has no meaning to the overarching plot.

I didn't mind Tales and Throne was generally received as pretty bad I thought, seriously flawed and linear for the conclusion.  I'm with Jan, should have made a proper third game for a trilogy but instead they went with expansion.  Feels like an "And then..." storyline and ending.

[Bartimaeus]

Sure, but Tales is still missing the "plot" part. Furthermore, though Throne of Bhaal was quite poorly written, it was not Werewolf Island levels of writing. Eugh.