Romance

[Skyleaf]

I know, I know, a lot of people find the subject of romance loathsome but let me play the devil's advocate anyway and ask the question...

 

will there be romance in this game?

 

Having finally finished Dragon Age Inquisition two months ago after giving up on it 2 years earlier, I found the romance side story with Cassandra to be a major factor in getting me across the finish line. Now I'm just starting my third after finishing my second playthrough this week with a romanced Solas.

 

A romance story done well can really put a smile on your face, happy ending or not. I finished my 2nd playthrough with Solas

leaving the Inquisitor,

then I saw La La Land with Mia

leaving for France.

Both stories were touching and they stay with you for a while.

 

Here's hoping I can get that kind of feeling with PoE: Deadfire. 

Edited January 29, 2017 by Skyleaf

[Mooch]

I'd probably cancel my pledge if they decided to incorporate Dragon Age or Mass Effect style "Romance". In my opinion that would be a terrible waste of resources.

 

Besides, I'm pretty sure the point of these games is to be as unlike Bioware "RPG's" as possible.

[Andraste]

I would like romances in POE2 if - AND ONLY IF - the developers are enthusiastic about doing them and want to do them well. I love in-game romances, but half-arsed ones are not worth it.(Original Neverwinter Nights 2 campaign, I am looking at you.)

 

That said, I think adding romances would go some way to combating one of the issues I had with POE1: the companion relationships lacked texture. Games that have romances in them have to model companions in more dimensions than those that don't. There's not just the question of whether the companion likes you or not, but the question of whether they like you like you, and that often seems to lead to deeper platonic relationships as well. I mean, obviously there are other ways of accomplishing that goal, but romances might be a way there for POE2 if they want to go that route.

Edited January 31, 2017 by Andraste

[mumbogumshoe]

I don't think there will be romances. First, many of Obsidian's most loyal fans are strictly opposed to them. There seems to be a bit of tribalism going on there as in rallying against Bioware that has made romance something like their calling card. Second, Obsidian writers and designers don't seem to really want doing them. Avellone was on record saying something disparaging about the idea, iirc. He's gone now but it seems to me his opinion is largely shared by the rest of Obsidian. I understand why, I myself am very ambivalent about the idea.

 

I don't oppose romances in principle. In every other medium, some sort of love story is an integral, indispensable part of any epic. You can't have a great novel, movie, whatever without it (or lets say, it's very rare). So I used to say, being able to integrate romances effectively into its stories would be a sign of video game writing truly growing up. I still kinda think that way. But video game writing is pretty unique compared to other kinds of writing because you have the player who's gonna interfere with your narrative. To write a good romance it all has to be emotionally coherent and believable and I think that's very hard to do while also giving the player their agency. I don't think video game writers have really figured out how best to do it yet. Almost all of the romances I've played in video games have been more or less cringeworthy, even though that's entirely subjective of course. They have been getting better though, so there's that.

 

Second problem with romances is that it's a bloody mine field. It seems whatever you do you gonna create outrage and alienate a lot of people. Don't know if that's worth it.

 

All that is purely academic anyway. I'm almost certain that there won't be any romance beyond perhaps some flirting and a bit of innuendo. Totally fine with that.

Edited January 29, 2017 by mumbogumshoe

[Gairnulf]

[Archaven]

Imagine they put the romance as one of the stretch goals... would the Bioware fans jump in with abundance? 

[Rorschach]

I don't think there will be romances. First, many of Obsidian's most loyal fans are strictly opposed to them. There seems to be a bit of tribalism going on there as in rallying against Bioware that has made romance something like their calling card. Second, Obsidian writers and designers don't seem to really want doing them. Avellone was on record saying something disparaging about the idea, iirc. He's gone now but it seems to me his opinion is largely shared by the rest of Obsidian. I understand why, I myself am very ambivalent about the idea.

 

I don't oppose romances in principle. In every other medium, some sort of love story is an integral, indispensable part of any epic. You can't have a great novel, movie, whatever without it (or lets say, it's very rare). So I used to say, being able to integrate romances effectively into its stories would be a sign of video game writing truly growing up. I still kinda think that way. But video game writing is pretty unique compared to other kinds of writing because you have the player who's gonna interfere with your narrative. To write a good romance it all has to be emotionally coherent and believable and I think that's very hard to do while also giving the player their agency. I don't think video game writers have really figured out how best to do it yet. Almost all of the romances I've played in video games have been more or less cringeworthy, even though that's entirely subjective of course. They have been getting better though, so there's that.

 

Second problem with romances is that it's a bloody mine field. It seems whatever you do you're gonna create outrage and alienate a lot of people. Don't know if that's worth it.

 

All that is purely academic anyway. I'm almost certain that there won't be any romance beyond perhaps some flirting and a bit of innuendo. Totally fine with that.

As a firmly opposed to romances Obsidian fan, I feel like I have to reply. First, yes, I'll admit what you mentioned as "tribalism" may be a factor. But I think it is because how BW evolved: the more they shifted away from what many hardcore fans like, the more romances we got. It even started to be the main focus of the game. Just look at the recent announcements about companiones from MEA: it's all about who can you sleep with, before than we even know them. I don't want the companions to be seen as romantic interests rather than partners. Also, it means many times the developers trying to "balance" the options for both genders, making some characters possible to romance just to make things equal.

 

About my personal view on romances in videogames: as you said, it something really personal, so it's difficult to write a romance that doesn't feel forced. Most times it's a matter of choosing the most obvious answers, independent of how your character is and how he behaves. This can be extended to videogames in general: sometimes the plot is fueled by a personal feeling leading many players to feel the whole motivation of the story silly. So there's that. Also, I get the exact opposite feeling as you do: I think love is forced in almost every piece of media to a point it's sickening and too predictable. In a 2h movie, the girl will go with the main character because it's the way it's supposed to be. That doesn't make the story better. I agree romance can play a good role in a story but it has to be a good story, to begin with. I don't want a romance because: if it fits, it could be there, but not for the sake of it.

 

Also, romance is not the be all end all of the relationships. Playing PS:T I fel much more close to Dak'kon and Morte with a regular firendship than to Anna or Grace. My relationship with Viconia didn't feel special, just more time consuming.

 

All in all, I want they to write deeper characters with more dialogue and a more personal story with the PC. If that would mean a character may get a romance, so be it, but for the love of the gods, please, don't force romances into the game just because people want them.

[GrayAngel]

If it is done good whey not there where romance done good or even great in games but only if they be normal not in your face EAware style.

BG2 was first game that had romance and it was great you could choose between Aerie, Jaheira and Viconia(best ever written) if you where men if you where woman you get Anomen so it was not so good:) We get many others good examples and to be fair many bad, but do them if you can and want not because you have too. 

PS. If you make romance in game make Pallagina romanceble i want answer to Hiravias question:)

[Andraste]

Imagine they put the romance as one of the stretch goals... would the Bioware fans jump in with abundance? 

 

Well, some of us have been here the whole time . It's not like BioWare fans and Obsidian fans are actually mutually exclusive groups, after all. But maybe I'd be able to convince a few people in the character threads on the BioWare Social Network to pony up some money if there were romances ...

[Ashen Rohk]

It'd have to be implemented properly to work well. I've never been a big fan of romance in RPGs (aside from Aerie giving birth in ToB, that was total jokes) but done well...sure?

 

That said, to me it just wouldn't feel...right?

[teenparty]

I would like romances in POE2 if - AND ONLY IF - the developers are enthusiastic about doing them and want to do them well. I love in-game romances, but half-arsed ones are not worth it.(Original Neverwinter Nights 2 campaign, I am looking at you.)

 

That said, I think adding romances would go some way to combating one of the issues I had with POE1: the companion relationships lacked texture. Games that have romances in them have to model companion romances in more dimensions than those that don't. There's not just the question of whether the companion likes you or not, but the question of whether they like you like you, and that often seems to lead to deeper platonic relationships as well. I mean, obviously there are other ways of accomplishing that goal, but romances might be a way there for POE2 if they want to go that route.

I agree with all of this. We should not push the developers into doing things they're not into. We asked for a stronghold in Pillars 1; they gave us a ****ty one. That's how it goes.

 

The only good Obsidian romances are in NWN2 Mask of the Betrayer. Those are really good, though.

[drgonzo]

No god please no.

[SkaenTemple]

Romances are huge magnet for female demographics. All those women who play, for example, Mass Effect do it mostly for romances, and not because they like SciFi and third person shooters.

 

So, if devs want to game be more popular and profitable, there should be a romances in POE2.

[desel]

Is it too much to ask these days that a modern RPG franchise doesn't have multiplayer, is (and hopefully stays) PC-exclusive and doesn't feature romances?

Leave POE alone, please.

Edited January 29, 2017 by desel

[evilcat]

If you Devs could romances in the way they will be proud of it, sure why not.

If our significant Eder got kidnaped to push plot futher, i could take that, so many games did it before player can used to.

There is HUGE potencial in complex relations with companions which player choose. Bromance. Rivalry. Teacher. Family.

Romances are fun if they have alot text with it. Just need narration dev who is able to do that.

Love story comes in many tastes, not all cute sweet.

Not all romances end on our sight.

Edited January 29, 2017 by evilcat

[Undecaf]

Yeah, leave the romance stuff for Bioware and CD Project.

[TheisEjsing]

 

 

Now this is how you romance! 

[mothra]

Yep, properly done romance has a big impact on a game and since I yet have to see any properly done without feeling "game-y" or forced I go with no.

[Karkarov]

*gets out the popcorn*

Here we go!!!  I am pulling for you promancers, I really am!

Lol in all seriousness you could fit romance subplots in this game just fine, it is a draw for a lot of players.  I don't mind them myself really, I just don't feel like they "have" to be there.  The real issue is that Obsidian simply doesn't enjoy writing them, and they feel like they suck at it to boot.

That said I will give you a like OP, because you are right.  La La Land is a great freaking movie.

Edited January 29, 2017 by Karkarov

[tinysalamander]

Considering how companion quests tend to end in PoE I expect PoE romance’s happy end to look something like this: “You get to save Iovara and ascend to somewhere together while half of the world burned to death and the other one is now worshipping Woedica who absorbed every other god and is now unquestioned ruler of the world” *cough*

[Skyleaf]

Well as expected, any discussion on romance will turn into a circus...of mostly rejection in forums like this.

 

Nonetheless, if I could get a clear yes or no from devs, I can happily move on.

 

Thinking positively, good romances will get gamers talking. Like I said, I nearly gave up on Dragon Age: Inquisition because of all those damn filler quest, but I needed to find a resolution to Cassandra's romance so I got back into it and finally finished the game. In the process, I found a way to maximize my enjoyment of the game. Solas romance has a shocking ending or a cliffhanger that really got players talking, with many theories on how things will play out in the 4th installment.

 

I also find the romance engaging in the Witcher & Mass Effect, so yeah, maybe I am that type of gamer. Not Skyrim though, and probably not Jade Empire.

 

In any case, going back to the main question. Yes or no, that's all I ask. I can live with a no. Divinity Original Sin 2 is coming, then Mass Effect Andromeda, then Cyberpunk 2077. So there are plenty of alternatives.

 

I just think that having played Pillars of Eternity, I think there is potential for complex romance stories in this sandbox. It would be a shame not to explore it.

[boffmoffet]

Do we really need to have this same conversation again? Over and over? Casting my NO ballot for 50th time on this issue again. Sorry to those who like to have Waifu in-game, but please, NO.

 

*edited to sound less salty.

Edited January 29, 2017 by boffmoffet

[Skyleaf]

Do we really need to have this same conversation again? Over and over? Casting my NO ballot for 50th time on this issue again. Sorry to those who like to have Waifu in-game, but please, NO.

 

*edited to sound less salty.

 

I'm sorry, have there been a discussion on this before for PoE: Deadfire? I've searched and there is nothing. You can just say no or ignore this conversation altogether if you want.

 

Once I get an answer from a dev I'll be out of your hair, geez.

[Gfted1]

I'm sorry, have there been a discussion on this before for PoE: Deadfire? I've searched and there is nothing. You can just say no or ignore this conversation altogether if you want.

 

Once I get an answer from a dev I'll be out of your hair, geez.

Sometimes these Romance discussion threads run hot but there is no reason to leave. All opinions and discussions are welcome (within the forum rules ofc).

[anameforobsidian]

There's a good reason for no romance.  It leads to waifu characters like Leliana and Merril.  I'm fine without.