Chelsea Manning Sentence Commuted

[Hurlshort]

By what standard was it harsh?

 

There are dozens of articles comparing his sentence to other spies, and most are less than what he received. Although this is a fairly unique case because he was giving secrets to the public. Typically you have financial motives, and the secrets are going to an enemy that is willing to pay, so that would seem to be more damning. Yet his sentence was more harsh than many people convicted of spying in the traditional sense.

 

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130821/18434224275/people-who-got-shorter-sentences-than-bradley-manning-spies-selling-secrets-to-russians-active-terrorists.shtml 

 

I know you love HP, WoD.  

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/21/shorter-sentences-than-bradley-manning_n_3789754.html?utm_hp_ref=tw

Edited January 18, 2017 by Hurlshot

[Wrath of Dagon]

I don't see any which got only 7 years. And most were plea deals, so they were given reduced sentences as an incentive to plead guilty. Also Manning was in the military and tried by a military tribunal, so harsher penalties would apply.

Edited January 18, 2017 by Wrath of Dagon

[Maedhros]

I was actually thinking of the use of feminine pronouns when referring to a man. If you could actually turn a horse into a zebra I'd call it a zebra. But painting black and white stripes on a horse won't make it a zebra. I will admit I am annoyed by the whole touchy feely "I identify as a woman so call me she" b------t. A thing is what it is. 2+2=4 no matter how anyone feels about it.

 

I feel like I'm the King of England so I want all of you to refer to me as Your Majesty from now on. But even if you did when I show up at Buckingham in a U-Haul I'll be in for a disappointment. 

 

 

People's gender identity can differ from their assigned sex. In this case we're probably dealing with someone with mental issues, but there are lots of people who have felt like they were born in the wrong body, and haven't been able to live good lives until they "look" like they feel. To me (probably because I'm Scandinavian!) it's just plain insensitive to refer to a trans person as the sex he/she was born into rather than the one he/she identifies with.

Edited January 18, 2017 by Thingolfin

[Amentep]

I don't see any which got only 7 years. And most were plea deals, so they were given reduced sentences as an incentive to plead guilty. Also Manning was in the military and tried by a military tribunal, so harsher penalties would apply.

 

True the other 'recent' military personnel I can think of charged under the Espionage act (George Trofimoff, life in prison; James Hall III, 40 years; John Anthony Walker, 25 years) all had more comparable sentences to Manning than the non-military ones (Jeffrey Sterling, 3.5 years; Stephen Jin-Woo Kim, 13 months, John Kiriakou, 30 months)

[213374U]

I was actually thinking of the use of feminine pronouns when referring to a man. If you could actually turn a horse into a zebra I'd call it a zebra. But painting black and white stripes on a horse won't make it a zebra. I will admit I am annoyed by the whole touchy feely "I identify as a woman so call me she" b------t. A thing is what it is. 2+2=4 no matter how anyone feels about it.

 

I feel like I'm the King of England so I want all of you to refer to me as Your Majesty from now on. But even if you did when I show up at Buckingham in a U-Haul I'll be in for a disappointment.

Why are you annoyed? Does (s)he get tax breaks that you don't for having a court recognize him as a woman or something? Only affects him*, really, which is why your King of England analogy doesn't hold water. That being said, if you can get the British Parliament to recognize you as the King of England, I'll be happy to address you as befitting your station.

 

Let's imagine for a second that tomorrow gene therapy allows these people to have their chromosomal endowment rearranged. Would you still be uncomfortable referring to him a she?

 

 

*to be fair, it affects everyone, because the whole pronoun thing is a total cluster****

[Malcador]

 

How is it OK when he was in jail for 7 years?

His sentence was 35 years. Arguably he should've been put to death for treason, "aid and comfort to the enemy".

And? How is this sending a message it was OK? Ok means no punishment is warranted and not like Manning had it easy in some country club prison.

[majestic]

I saw this development earlier and I'm a little conflicted, she did betray her country but were there mitigating circumstances....is this pardon warranted ? But no clemency for Snowden, thats a different situation IMO 

 

That's quite bizarre. Both Manning and Snowden leaked damning top secret material to the public - much about topics we quite frankly all knew or suspected were happening but would otherwise never have been publicly acknowledged. Sure, Manning could and possibly should have served the sentence in  psychiatric care instead of prison but that's pretty much it (not taking Snowden's flight into account, obviously).

 

In essence, you're probably just biased because Manning is going to go through gender reassignment or because you actually believed the hyped up bull**** about how Snowden's information endangered western allies and spies. Or both, perhaps.

 

Not that you're alone in being of bizarre opinions here. I mean, obviously it was a-ok to leak Hitlery's e-mails after the DNC hack because we don't like the DNC, Obola or the establishment but if said establishment is torturing Iraqi civilians or spying on their own people then boo boo hell, time for some carnage for giving aid and comfort to the enemy.

[Hurlshort]

 

I don't see any which got only 7 years. And most were plea deals, so they were given reduced sentences as an incentive to plead guilty. Also Manning was in the military and tried by a military tribunal, so harsher penalties would apply.

 

True the other 'recent' military personnel I can think of charged under the Espionage act (George Trofimoff, life in prison; James Hall III, 40 years; John Anthony Walker, 25 years) all had more comparable sentences to Manning than the non-military ones (Jeffrey Sterling, 3.5 years; Stephen Jin-Woo Kim, 13 months, John Kiriakou, 30 months)

 

 

Sure, but aren't all of those examples people who sold secrets to other states?

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Not that you're alone in being of bizarre opinions here. I mean, obviously it was a-ok to leak Hitlery's e-mails after the DNC hack because we don't like the DNC, Obola or the establishment but if said establishment is torturing Iraqi civilians or spying on their own people then boo boo hell, time for some carnage for giving aid and comfort to the enemy.

Torturing browns is nothing compared to leaking dirt on the US government's misdeeds.

[Meshugger]

Is there any official motivation on why he was pardoned?

[Hurlshort]

Is there any official motivation on why he was pardoned?

 

He was commuted, which is a lowering of the penalty. Pardon means forgiveness.

[Wrath of Dagon]

 

 

How is it OK when he was in jail for 7 years?

His sentence was 35 years. Arguably he should've been put to death for treason, "aid and comfort to the enemy".

 

And? How is this sending a message it was OK? Ok means no punishment is warranted and not like Manning had it easy in some country club prison.

 

Obviously "OK" was a hyperbole used for the purposes of the joke, but Obola didn't sentence him, he only commuted his sentence, i.e. he's saying his offence wasn't as serious as the military judge thought.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Is there any official motivation on why he was pardoned?

No, but maybe saying he would Assange give himself up had something to do with it. Granted he won't do that because clemency =/= sentence commuted.

[Amentep]

 

 

I don't see any which got only 7 years. And most were plea deals, so they were given reduced sentences as an incentive to plead guilty. Also Manning was in the military and tried by a military tribunal, so harsher penalties would apply.

 

True the other 'recent' military personnel I can think of charged under the Espionage act (George Trofimoff, life in prison; James Hall III, 40 years; John Anthony Walker, 25 years) all had more comparable sentences to Manning than the non-military ones (Jeffrey Sterling, 3.5 years; Stephen Jin-Woo Kim, 13 months, John Kiriakou, 30 months)

 

 

Sure, but aren't all of those examples people who sold secrets to other states?

 

 

Yes, I believe that Trofimoff, Hall, and Walker were all explicitly selling secrets to Russia; Sterling, Kim and Kiriakou were all convicted of giving secrets to journalists; Sterling in particular received his sentence right after the Patraeus sentencing which kind of shows how disparate handling of these types of accusations have been.

[Wrath of Dagon]

Not necessarily disparate since Petraeus secrets never got beyond his mistress, thus in practical terms his offense caused no harm. What was disparate was the difference in treatment between Petraeus and Hillary, who did much worse.

[Hurlshort]

I do wonder if the people freaking out about this also freaked out about Scooter Libby being commuted.

[Meshugger]

 

Is there any official motivation on why he was pardoned?

 

He was commuted, which is a lowering of the penalty. Pardon means forgiveness.

 

 

Fair enough.

 

 

Is there any official motivation on why he was pardoned?

No, but maybe saying he would Assange give himself up had something to do with it. Granted he won't do that because clemency =/= sentence commuted.

 

 

That's what i am more interested in. Some dealings have to be going on in the background.

[Amentep]

Not necessarily disparate since Petraeus secrets never got beyond his mistress, thus in practical terms his offense caused no harm. What was disparate was the difference in treatment between Petraeus and Hillary, who did much worse.

 

My point was simply that they were disparate; its hard to draw comparisons to previous cases since no two are alike. As I recall Petraeus was never charged with Espionage.

 

I do wonder if the people freaking out about this also freaked out about Scooter Libby being commuted.

 

Libby was convicted, IIRC, of lying not espionage.

[Guard Dog]

 

I was actually thinking of the use of feminine pronouns when referring to a man. If you could actually turn a horse into a zebra I'd call it a zebra. But painting black and white stripes on a horse won't make it a zebra. I will admit I am annoyed by the whole touchy feely "I identify as a woman so call me she" b------t. A thing is what it is. 2+2=4 no matter how anyone feels about it.

 

I feel like I'm the King of England so I want all of you to refer to me as Your Majesty from now on. But even if you did when I show up at Buckingham in a U-Haul I'll be in for a disappointment. 

 

 

People's gender identity can differ from their assigned sex. In this case we're probably dealing with someone with mental issues, but there are lots of people who have felt like they were born in the wrong body, and haven't been able to live good lives until they "look" like they feel. To me (probably because I'm Scandinavian!) it's just plain insensitive to refer to a trans person as the sex he/she was born into rather than the one he/she identifies with.

 

Well I guess I can identify with that. I've always felt I had the wrong body. In fact I'm pretty sure Tom Brady cut ahead of me in line and ended up with the one I was supposed to get.

[Guard Dog]

 

I was actually thinking of the use of feminine pronouns when referring to a man. If you could actually turn a horse into a zebra I'd call it a zebra. But painting black and white stripes on a horse won't make it a zebra. I will admit I am annoyed by the whole touchy feely "I identify as a woman so call me she" b------t. A thing is what it is. 2+2=4 no matter how anyone feels about it.

 

I feel like I'm the King of England so I want all of you to refer to me as Your Majesty from now on. But even if you did when I show up at Buckingham in a U-Haul I'll be in for a disappointment.

Why are you annoyed? Does (s)he get tax breaks that you don't for having a court recognize him as a woman or something? Only affects him*, really, which is why your King of England analogy doesn't hold water. That being said, if you can get the British Parliament to recognize you as the King of England, I'll be happy to address you as befitting your station.

 

Let's imagine for a second that tomorrow gene therapy allows these people to have their chromosomal endowment rearranged. Would you still be uncomfortable referring to him a she?

 

 

*to be fair, it affects everyone, because the whole pronoun thing is a total cluster****

 

You know, I really don't know why it bothers me. It always irritates me when someone refers to their car engine as a motor too. An engine and a motor are two different things. I guess I'm just kind of anal retentive like that. I demand people call a thing what it is. But if they could magically replace Manning's Y chromosome with another X, well that would make him a her. Heck they don't even need to go that far. Once the surgeries are finished that's close enough. But until then he is a dude in a dress taking pills.

[Guard Dog]

 

Is there any official motivation on why he was pardoned?

 

He was commuted, which is a lowering of the penalty. Pardon means forgiveness.

 

Correct. He is getting out of prison but he is still a convicted felon.

[Amentep]

It always irritates me when someone refers to their car engine as a motor too. An engine and a motor are two different things.

Perhaps MIT can help?

[Rosbjerg]

Julian Assange claimed repeatedly that he would turn himself in if Manning 'got clemency', but of course won't turn himself in since Manning didn't get released immediately.

[Azdeus]

Julian Assange claimed repeatedly that he would turn himself in if Manning 'got clemency', but of course won't turn himself in since Manning didn't get released immediately.

 

Bah, there goes the last vestiges of respect I ever had of him. Coward.

[Zoraptor]

Meh, he's better than the Swedish prosecution that leaked literally everything from interviews to victim statements to Assange's name in the first place- of course, no charges or sackings for those leaks. The US and Sweden have been so utterly dishonest he shouldn't hand himself over to either under any circumstances.

 

 

The rationale I heard was that Snowden didn't face the US justice system and either stand exonerated as a legitimate whistleblower (his claim) or convicted of treason (the state's claim), instead fleeing the justice system to Russia. 

 

He didn't flee to Russia, the US cancelled his passport while he was in the Russian transit lounge- en route to Bolivia, hence Evo Morales' plane being forced down for a Vienna Convention breaking search a little later. That's the same technically not quite slanderous tactic used against Assange to claim he fled Sweden when the prosecutor said he had no case to answer then another prosecutor just happened to reinstate charges after he'd left.