The US Election 2016, Part VI

[Wrath of Dagon]

Time for the retirement home grandma: http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/09/05/hillary-clinton-serious-coughing-fit-in-cleveland/

[Malcador]

Time for the retirement home grandma: http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/09/05/hillary-clinton-serious-coughing-fit-in-cleveland/

Well that was amusing.

[Guard Dog]

It occurs to me a lot of people are missing the point on Colin Kapernick's "protests". Those that agree with him are railing against the people who are criticizing him as denying him free speech". They are wrong. His free speech has not been denied... far from it. He can continue to do this as long as he wants for any reason he wants. I don't think anyone has ever said "He can't do this". But exercising free speech does not exempt one from criticism from others. Only from government. Those who support him seem perfectly willing to champion his freedom to protest but they are much less supportive of everyone else having the freedom to criticize. One is every bit as important as the other IMO. You have the right to say what you will but not the right to be agreed with.

 

 

Edit: This is not in response to anything said here in WoT. This is more the general attitude towards the situation in the media & sports radio. 

Edited September 6, 2016 by Guard Dog

[Hurlshort]

The Kaepernick stuff is weird.  First off, I'm not a fan of the way he went about this.  Not because I don't think it is fine to have athletes speaking out against police brutality, but rather because it looks more like a guy trying to distract from the fact he is supposed to be a starting QB but has looked terrible for the last two seasons.  

 

But then the crazy thing is, it ended up working.  Not because people were like, look at that guy making a stand by not standing, how interesting.  But because people FLIPPED OUT.  It became this huge thing that a backup QB struggling to make the team was not standing.  Honestly, if it made you angry that he did not stand, you need to rethink your entire life.  He's an athlete, he throws a football for a living, get over it.  This would have been a tiny footnote on his wikipedia page before he was cut if people did not flip out about it.  At the same time, if you think boycotting the national anthem will end police brutality, you also need to rethink your life.   

 

Now the team is in a weird spot, they can't really cut him without it becoming a politically divisive issue, even though he's not starting and making too much money for a backup.  His jersey sales are through the roof, because now he's basically a figurehead for anti-authority types.  It's a crazy world we live in.  The President is being asked about a backup QB on a mediocre football team.    

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

At this point whoever wins will generate a huge amount of butthurt in people I hate so this election is turning out to be real fun.

[Guard Dog]

Hurlshot do you remember a movie from the 80's called The Last Temptation of Christ? It painted a rather.... unflattering picture of Jesus. Well, folks, particularly Christians flipped out. There were pickets, protests, boycotts, the whole works. The thing was it was an abysmally bad movie (I rented it from Blockbuster a long time ago) and it would have tanked but all the hoopla generated curiosity which made people WANT to go see it. You are correct, the best way to make something go away is to ignore it. 

 

My advice to anyone is if you see something you don't like but isn't hurting anyone just say "whatever" and get on with your life. Making a fuss has the opposite intended effect. 

[Gromnir]

the media, as a whole, were helping kaepernick, a back-up qb who has literal thrown away a very promising football career these past few years, from making himself look like an idiot.  when initial questioned 'bout his impromptu protest, kaepernick explained 'bout evil cops and bodies piling up in the streets, but he also rambled on 'bout the Presidential candidates, and NFL ownership and whatever else seemed to pop into his head.  when pressed 'bout his own experiences with racism, he offered up a lochte-esque story o' police barging into his home and aiming guns at him and his college football roommates for no reason other than that they were the only african-americans in the neighborhood.  the media coulda' made this guy look utter ridiculous, and sure, a few folks in the media has taken kaepernick to task, but the media, as a whole, has given this guy a pass.  comparisons to muhammad ali and jackie robinson is comical misplaced for the guy who were wearing his pigs-dressed-as-cops socks in the weeks leading up to his national anthem protest. immature and uneducated. kaepernick's protest were the classical dumb jock doing something predictable dumb, but in this day and age, calling out the kaepernicks for their stoopidity is likely gonna get you labeled as a racist, or worse. 

 

'course our biggest issue with kaepernick's protest were not the non-existent free speech issue *snort* or the way kaepernick were handled with kid gloves by the majority o' media outlets. nope.  our big problem is both kaepernick and the media is seeming missing a fundamental flaw in such a protest being directed at the USA.

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/84558-nfl-2016-season/?p=1839274

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/88037-dallas-sniper-shootings/?p=1830101

 

unlike many other western nations, our police is not maintained by the national government.  we got state cops and county cops and city cops, and we got a Constitution that specific reserves police power to individual states.  there is actual very little the USA can do 'bout police behaviors in california or missouri or illinois. the media got distracted and helped perpetuate ignorance and myth.  

 

blm has purposeful avoided specific leadership. am seeing positives from this, but the negative is the media is desperate to give a face and a voice to the movement.  regardless o' the insights o' kaepernick, those in the media who support blm use the backup qb to make a point, just as does those who find blm fundamental flawed.  kaepernick's protest, which to his credit has morphed and streamlined a bit, is largely incidental to the continuing media debate regarding blm.  

 

...

 

but to echo gd (sorta) there ain't no free speech issue at play insofar is the kaepernick debate is concerned.  kaepernick ain't being denied speech By The Government.  am constant baffled when we see folks reference first amendment free speech on these boards. get fired by an employer for shouting anti-semitic slurs at customers is not a first amendment free speech issue-- thank goodness. a parent "grounds" their child for using profanity is not a first amendment free speech issue. a game developer cancels an interview with codex is not a free speech issue... first amendment or otherwise.  

 

*shakes head*

 

gonna have a hard time finding a more ardent supporter o' free speech than Gromnir, but just 'cause folks don't wanna listen to your nonsense is hardly creating a free speech issue.  you believe strongly in... whatever? then go ahead and speak. thanks to the First Amendment, State consequences, limits and punishments o' speech is largely verboten... and god bless america for that protection o' a fundamental liberty, 'cause the rest o' the western world is far less interested in individual speech protections. even so, only the most obtuse kinda yutz is believing that speakers is deserving to be insulated from the ordinary and every day consequences o' their speech.  

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited September 6, 2016 by Gromnir

[Guard Dog]

Someone compared him to Jackie Robinson? Now that's offensive. He is not fit to carry Robinson's jock.

[Meshugger]

Ok, can someone please explain the last posts in Eurofag? I have no idea what you are talking about.

[Hurlshort]

Of course, the Santa Clara Police Department saying they will boycott 49ers games is also completely inappropriate.  Police departments should be above throwing a temper tantrum because a football player hurt their feelings.

[Malcador]

Cops are very sensitive.

[quidproquo]

Who's this Kaepernic? Didn't he create a model of the sun and moon or something? I thought he was dead.

 

Heard some guy say something one time like Let the foolish talk so they may be answered. It's like the laws in countries against hate speech. Denying speech doesn't kill ideas, just drives them underground. In today's world, underground in't all that deep, either. Those ideas broil and churn underground with no one clear voice and thus there can be no cohesive answer other than generalized attacks on the idea itself that become opportunistic attacks on political opponents. All this shadow-boxing with racism and anti-policism or what have you is what ended you up with Trump as a major candidate.

 

If someone says the civil rights act were misguided, he'd be bum rushed. He could be wrong, but the only thing people would hear is that he's against the civil rights act. He wouldn't even get to give a reason and it might be a valid reason. Even if it's wrong, it might be a reason that moved the discussion of race past the chasm in the road where it's been stuck for decades.

 

Various civil rights acts were great for ensuring equal protection under the law, equal administration of the law, and equal access to public locations and services such as schools. But perhaps it went too far in attacking private businesses. The idea of protecting the rights of citizens is worthy, but if the idea were to attack racism, then apparently the acts were a dismal failure. Apparently, racism still exists and it's all better if we know who the racists are. Not the wanker who tells an off-color joke out of ignorance, but the hollow souled racist who believes that some people are inferior because of skin color or sex or some other trivial difference. Increasingly, businesses that drive away large swaths of patrons will lose their custom and go extinct. Much better than forcing people to keep their hatred hidden is to create an atmosphere where their hatred is increasingly obsolete. Mere suggestion of these things makes a man prone to the charge of racism, which ends up a backlash, which is why this Kaepernic ended up so controversial for saying the earth revolves around the sun. The attacks themselves become more of an issue than simple truths calmly spoken that are a much better answer.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Ok, can someone please explain the last posts in Eurofag? I have no idea what you are talking about.

Some athlete triggered cops by calling them **** so they're going to boycott his team's games.

[Gromnir]

Ok, can someone please explain the last posts in Eurofag? I have no idea what you are talking about.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-national-anthem-20160901-snap-story.html

 

in regards to hurl comments, yeah, the cops is not helping, but typical we are talking 'bout off-duty cops "policing" games.  the actual department stance on such stuff is a bit more enlightened.

 

http://www.mercurynews.com/49ers-stadium/ci_30326623/santa-clara-police-chief-urges-officers-protect-public

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Guard Dog]

Of course, the Santa Clara Police Department saying they will boycott 49ers games is also completely inappropriate.  Police departments should be above throwing a temper tantrum because a football player hurt their feelings.

Well I'm boycotting the 49ers because the worst seat in Levi's Stadium is $128 per game. Nuts to that. Plus i find the 20 hour drive a little off-putting.

[Gromnir]

for perspective, we actual supported mahmoud abdul rauf.

 

http://articles.latimes.com/1996-03-13/sports/sp-46409_1_mahmoud-abdul-rauf

 

is not that we agreed with the nba star, but we admired his conviction, and thoughtfulness.  

 

no silly sox. no bs stories to validate his position. no excuses.  the nba player believed that the USA, while a great place for him to earn money, were a nation o' tyranny and oppression.  

 

again, we disagreed with mahmoud abdul rauf, but we respected the man.  we did not support his position or his beliefs, but as an American, we had little difficulty in supporting a peaceful protest o' perceived injustice.

 

HA! Good Fun! 

[Volourn]

"Of course, the Santa Clara Police Department saying they will boycott 49ers games is also completely inappropriate.  Police departments should be above throwing a temper tantrum because a football player hurt their feelings."

 

It's completely appropriate. Kap is a part of BLM a terrorist organiziation that targets cops - especially white ones - for murder. It be dangerous for them to be enar him because he might to murder them.

 

 

He has the right to his opinion but other people have the right to theirs about his.

 

 

P.S. That NBA rule is nazish and evil incarnate. Talk about  theft in the highest order. EVIL.

 

 

"The law may be on Abdul-Rauf's side if he decides to press the issue in court, said Mark Silverstein, who is leaving the Southern California office of the American Civil Liberties Union to become legal director of the Colorado ACLU office.

"Congress has passed statutes concerning the legal exercise of religious freedom in the workplace," Silverstein said."

 

Did he force the issue in court? If not, he should have. he should have sued the NBA for  1billion dollars to put them Nazis in their place.

Edited September 6, 2016 by Volourn

[HoonDing]

http://articles.latimes.com/1993-03-11/news/mn-1034_1_edna-phillips

 

ugh, thx for making me remember

[Meshugger]

[HoonDing]

for a split second i thought that was kissinger

[Meshugger]

You have a mental image of Kissinger slightly smiling?

 

That's unsettling.

[Malcador]

The evils of marriage

[BruceVC]

Bruce, Trump hasn't been non supportive of the black community, he has been unsupportive of BLM which tbh was a smart move.

 

https://youtu.be/aByCf6Qox58

 

https://youtu.be/HeplUFT8BMI

 

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/video/news/trumps-direct-appeal-to-black-voters/vp-BBvQdZr

 

Guys this is the reason  African Americans (AA)  wont be voting for Trump,  watch the beginning part of the video

 

He is very offensive and rude at that part....

[quidproquo]

If rude and offensive were disqualifiers, Trump wouldn't be in the race now, mate. If dishonest and scheming were disqualifiers, Her Royal Secretary of State, nee Senator, nee first lady, nee Hillary Rodham Clinton, nee Hillary Clinton, nee Hilary, nee etc. ad nauseam so forth so on, would not have made it past the primaries against that old man who ran against her. At some point, if Trump actually goes after the black voters in the inner cities, he might make headway. Not with blacks in the inner urban centers or the wasteland outer urban neighborhoods, but with the black population in general. Making a pitch to black Americans in the inner city develops gravitas that could serve him, even if there's ample evidence that he's not entirely sympathetic.

 

News reports here range from acting like the man's Hitler to the man's a clown, but don't matter. What matters is what the voters of the USA want.

[Oerwinde]

Not surprising. Married women tend to be more likely to support things like traditional gender roles, personal responsibility, lower taxes, etc. And more often don't identify as feminists.