Wrath of Dagon Posted June 23, 2016 Posted June 23, 2016 Eh, your current form of federal government is arguably even more removed from your citizen than ours, but sure...Well, that's our problem, we love the country but we hate the government. I don't think anyone loves the EU though. "Moral indignation is a standard strategy for endowing the idiot with dignity." Marshall McLuhan
Gfted1 Posted June 23, 2016 Posted June 23, 2016 So who votes in EU officials? Are there term limits? "I'm your biggest fan, Ill follow you until you love me, Papa"
Rosbjerg Posted June 23, 2016 Posted June 23, 2016 So who votes in EU officials? Are there term limits? Each nation elects national members into an EU parliment- which then organises into larger pan European parties- that selects a prime minister in much the same way a national parliment would (with vote blocks). There's a 2,5 year term limit for the President of the council which is renewable once. 1 Fortune favors the bald.
majestic Posted June 23, 2016 Posted June 23, 2016 So who votes in EU officials? Are there term limits? Short answer: The people, of course - it is after all a democratic institution. Long answer: That kind of depends on which EU institution you're talking about. Since we're talking government I guess we can leave out the ECB, the Court of Justice and the Court of Auditors. That leaves: The European Commission, which is made up by one person per member state. These are nominated by the respective national governments and approved by the European Parliament. This is the executive branch of the European Union, or if you will, the actual EU government. This is the institution that generally proposes legislature then voted on by the Parilament and the Council of the European Union. The European Parliament, Rosbjerg already explained that one, parties in each member nation are voted for and then organize themselves into pan-European groups. The largest group is currently the center/right conservative European People's Party (a party which I utterly despise, but that's neither here nor there). Elections are held every five years in each member nation. The Council of the European Union, which currently has 10 different configurations with each configuration made up by members of each member state's government, according to their portfolio (e.g. the Foreign Affairs Council is made up by each member nation's minister of foreign affairs). This is the second part of the EU legislative branch. Lastly there is the European Council, comprised of the head of government of each member state. It has no legislative or executive power but is generally supposed to provide impetus, direction and, yes, general council to the other institutions. Until the Treaty of Lisbon this institution only existed in an inofficial capacity. There are no term limits that I know of. Every EU official in the governing branch is democratically elected. Either through parties in the national EU parliamentary elections with disturbingly low voter attendence (and then a lot of complaining, obviously, about how a distant and supposedly undemocratic government imposes their will on the member states) or through each member nation's general elections. One of the problems that often crop up is how the local governments appear to select the members of the commission - as a method to remove rivals or to make unwelcome failures disappear gracefully. 1 No mind to think. No will to break. No voice to cry suffering.
Guard Dog Posted June 23, 2016 Posted June 23, 2016 Eh, your current form of federal government is arguably even more removed from your citizen than ours, but sure... This sounds like something I might have said! Many, many, many times in fact! "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell
Guard Dog Posted June 23, 2016 Posted June 23, 2016 Eh, your current form of federal government is arguably even more removed from your citizen than ours, but sure...Well, that's our problem, we love the country but we hate the government. I don't think anyone loves the EU though. I wouldn't go so far as to say we hate the government. It has a job to do that we need it to do well. When it starts to things outside that job or do things it's not supposed to do at all is when we run into trouble. "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell
HoonDing Posted June 23, 2016 Posted June 23, 2016 People actually thinking Brexit can happen or Drumpf can get elected.Srsly, get back in line, goyim. 1 The ending of the words is ALMSIVI.
213374U Posted June 23, 2016 Posted June 23, 2016 (edited) I've avoided taking a stance on this because I'm not British and I think it is arrogant and presumptuous for someone who does not an has never lived in GB to tell them how their country ought to be run. But if I were I'd be voting to send the EU and the Brussels bureaucrats back across the channel where they belong. Well, we have this cavalier tendency to tell you how to run your country every day of the week and twice on sundays, so I don't think anyone will hold it against you. However, if you are still uncomfortable, you can always do it like a boss a member of royalty, and frame it as a leading question. Edited June 23, 2016 by 213374U - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.
Meshugger Posted June 23, 2016 Posted June 23, 2016 People actually thinking Brexit can happen or Drumpf can get elected. Srsly, get back in line, goyim. How many of your shekels are invested in this, chaim? "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy
Agiel Posted June 23, 2016 Posted June 23, 2016 (edited) Fact checking both sides' claim:https://medium.com/im-trying-to-fact-check-brexit/fact-checking-brexit-the-conclusion-c1f56ba4cb70#.4d3ij8ytkIn any case, last word from polls reported 8 point lead for remain. I guess my recent purchase of General Electric, United Technologies, and Raytheon stock wasn't quite the master stroke I was envisioning. Edited June 23, 2016 by Agiel 1 Quote “Political philosophers have often pointed out that in wartime, the citizen, the male citizen at least, loses one of his most basic rights, his right to life; and this has been true ever since the French Revolution and the invention of conscription, now an almost universally accepted principle. But these same philosophers have rarely noted that the citizen in question simultaneously loses another right, one just as basic and perhaps even more vital for his conception of himself as a civilized human being: the right not to kill.” -Jonathan Littell <<Les Bienveillantes>> Quote "The chancellor, the late chancellor, was only partly correct. He was obsolete. But so is the State, the entity he worshipped. Any state, entity, or ideology becomes obsolete when it stockpiles the wrong weapons: when it captures territories, but not minds; when it enslaves millions, but convinces nobody. When it is naked, yet puts on armor and calls it faith, while in the Eyes of God it has no faith at all. Any state, any entity, any ideology that fails to recognize the worth, the dignity, the rights of Man...that state is obsolete." -Rod Serling
Wrath of Dagon Posted June 23, 2016 Posted June 23, 2016 Eh, your current form of federal government is arguably even more removed from your citizen than ours, but sure...Well, that's our problem, we love the country but we hate the government. I don't think anyone loves the EU though. I wouldn't go so far as to say we hate the government. It has a job to do that we need it to do well. When it starts to things outside that job or do things it's not supposed to do at all is when we run into trouble. When the government not only fails to act in the interests of its citizens, but starts to actively undermine those interests, then yes, hatred is the proper emotion: http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2016/04/13/irs-admits-it-encourages-illegals-to-steal-social-security-numbers-for-taxes/#462a2c08237a "Moral indignation is a standard strategy for endowing the idiot with dignity." Marshall McLuhan
Gfted1 Posted June 23, 2016 Posted June 23, 2016 Short answer: The people, of course - it is after all a democratic institution. Long answer: ~snip~ If this is the case, what is your opinion of the disenfranchised feeling some member citizens have expressed? "I'm your biggest fan, Ill follow you until you love me, Papa"
Zoraptor Posted June 23, 2016 Posted June 23, 2016 Purely economic alliance is just illusion/day dream that really can't exist as other issues will always play in direct or indirect way when nations try to agree about something. Countries have free trade agreements and even free movement without a supra national federalised government, we have both with Australia. The EU isn't as bad as it's made out to be the extreme rejectionsists but it has always been about bundling federalisation into unrelated matters- you don't need the Euro, or a central european bank or even executive functions beyond the ability to implement decisions related to trade/ economics; and, of course, the EU has been utterly hopeless at enforcing any economic rules even with that executive function. If they'd been in any way competent at that then I'd probably agree with you, but they simply haven't and they have asterisked entire countries up as a consequence. So, mostly the EU isn't as bad because it tends to get blamed for everything that goes wrong and works very well as an excuse for making or not making decisions that individual countries did/ didn't want to make anyway rather than having intrinsic positives. Reverse is true as well, EU fans love blaming any problems in the EU on insufficient integration. It hasn't even prevented wars, most of its members being in NATO and not spending much on defence has been far more important than the EU.
Valsuelm Posted June 23, 2016 Posted June 23, 2016 People actually thinking Brexit can happen or Drumpf can get elected. Srsly, get back in line, goyim. In the case of the former, I can actually see scenarios where the powers that shouldn't be would allow for the UK to 'Brexit', though I would agree those scenarios are less likely than the remain scenarios (we'll find out in some hours). In the case of the latter, Trump even running at all is going to accomplish some good, win or lose, and probably not in the way most would normally expect.
Volourn Posted June 23, 2016 Posted June 23, 2016 "I just don't see the tangible benefits to leaving. The EU may have a tremendous amount of problems, but does this fix any of them?" Your argument is illogical. Britian voting to leave the EU isn't about 'fixing' EU's problem's it is about Britian and what they get out of it. Why anyone would want to be slaves to others is beyond. Britain was doing just fine pre EU. EU has done NOTHING to really benefit Britian. Slavery is EU and EU is all about slavery. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
Nonek Posted June 23, 2016 Posted June 23, 2016 Britain was doing just fine pre EU. I wouldn't say just fine, there were serious problems in those days that needed addressing and some would say some still do. However I agree that Britain can forge its own destiny independently, indeed the challenge might be very good for us as a people. An appropriate song for this historic ocassion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rv41AgQTlrA Quite an experience to live in misery isn't it? That's what it is to be married with children.I've seen things you people can't even imagine. Pearly Kings glittering on the Elephant and Castle, Morris Men dancing 'til the last light of midsummer. I watched Druid fires burning in the ruins of Stonehenge, and Yorkshiremen gurning for prizes. All these things will be lost in time, like alopecia on a skinhead. Time for tiffin. Tea for the teapot!
Hurlshort Posted June 23, 2016 Posted June 23, 2016 My apologies, I did not realize this is about slavery.
Agiel Posted June 23, 2016 Posted June 23, 2016 First results in from Gibraltar, overwhelmingly for "remain". I guess that makes Nigel Farage "Herr Kaleun" here: Quote “Political philosophers have often pointed out that in wartime, the citizen, the male citizen at least, loses one of his most basic rights, his right to life; and this has been true ever since the French Revolution and the invention of conscription, now an almost universally accepted principle. But these same philosophers have rarely noted that the citizen in question simultaneously loses another right, one just as basic and perhaps even more vital for his conception of himself as a civilized human being: the right not to kill.” -Jonathan Littell <<Les Bienveillantes>> Quote "The chancellor, the late chancellor, was only partly correct. He was obsolete. But so is the State, the entity he worshipped. Any state, entity, or ideology becomes obsolete when it stockpiles the wrong weapons: when it captures territories, but not minds; when it enslaves millions, but convinces nobody. When it is naked, yet puts on armor and calls it faith, while in the Eyes of God it has no faith at all. Any state, any entity, any ideology that fails to recognize the worth, the dignity, the rights of Man...that state is obsolete." -Rod Serling
Gorgon Posted June 23, 2016 Posted June 23, 2016 I've avoided taking a stance on this because I'm not British and I think it is arrogant and presumptuous for someone who does not an has never lived in GB to tell them how their country ought to be run. But if I were I'd be voting to send the EU and the Brussels bureaucrats back across the channel where they belong. Well, we have this cavalier tendency to tell you how to run your country every day of the week and twice on sundays, so I don't think anyone will hold it against you. However, if you are still uncomfortable, you can always do it like a boss a member of royalty, and frame it as a leading question. I reject the notion of countries altogether. Na na na na na na ... greg358 from Darksouls 3 PVP is a CHEATER. That is all.
Guard Dog Posted June 23, 2016 Posted June 23, 2016 My apologies, I did not realize this is about slavery. He has a fetish... don't criticize 1 "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell
Hiro Protagonist Posted June 23, 2016 Posted June 23, 2016 Looks like voting in some areas with remain out number other areas who voted leave. In other news, the Pound is tumbling.
Zoraptor Posted June 23, 2016 Posted June 23, 2016 BBC results page for those wanting to follow the, uh, excitement in real time. Way too soon for any actual predictions yet, remain has a slight lead at present.
Malcador Posted June 23, 2016 Posted June 23, 2016 I reject the notion of countries altogether. How else would we get all those kickass anthems then ? Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra
Darkpriest Posted June 24, 2016 Posted June 24, 2016 so it's 50/50 now? last i heard it was 50.5 for leave and 49.5 for stay
Bartimaeus Posted June 24, 2016 Posted June 24, 2016 switched back to remain now guess this isn't determined after 1% of results being in like most u.s. elections Quote How I have existed fills me with horror. For I have failed in everything - spelling, arithmetic, riding, tennis, golf; dancing, singing, acting; wife, mistress, whore, friend. Even cooking. And I do not excuse myself with the usual escape of 'not trying'. I tried with all my heart. In my dreams, I am not crippled. In my dreams, I dance.
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