Charleston church massacre

[Meshugger]

I like how little discussion there is about combating the ideas and ideals that guy had and possible mental health prevention methods. Instead it is the same old "banning speech, symbols and guns and everything will be ok"-mantra.

 

Pity.

[JadedWolf]

We should have a jar here where Volourn has to put in a quarter whenever he mentions the Nazi's.

 

I predict after only a short while we could fund PoE 2 with the proceeds.

[BruceVC]

Without guns the Nazis would never have been defeated. Are you saying you wanted the Nazis to remain in power? That's weird.

 

That's exactly what I am saying, in fact we should lament the fact that guns were used to overthrow the magnanimous  Nazi's..they really benefited the world with there reasonable ideological views 

 

Your sagacity never ceases to amaze me...good insight there Volo 

[Malcador]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/24/bill-chumley-charleston-shooting_n_7653182.html

 

The NRA in the USA never ceases to be amaze me with its myopic view on gun violence , there solution to this type of attack  is " more guns  for the public " 

 

 

This lawmaker did apologize later for his appalling remarks ...

If they were all 9 veterans I'm pretty sure they'd have rushed him while he reloaded, 9 random normal people not so much. Even if they had weapons, doubt many would have it right on them as opposed to their purse or jacket near the door or whatever.

 

 

Now if they had Guardian Drones....

[Blarghagh]

Without guns the Nazis would never have been defeated. Are you saying you wanted the Nazis to remain in power? That's weird.

 

The Nazis had to be defeated because they used a lot of new guns after being pissed that people with guns took all their old guns.

[Malcador]

For a funny example of overreacting - http://www.macrumors.com/2015/06/25/apple-removes-civil-war-games-confederate-flag/

[Gfted1]

Wow. That's pretty pathetic. Quick! Scrub the Civil War from history books too!

[Gromnir]

Wow. That's pretty pathetic. Quick! Scrub the Civil War from history books too!

well, to be fair, in the south they has done considerable scrubbing where the civil war is more frequent called the war between the states, and the slavery angle is significantly downplayed even in some school textbooks.  the revisionist brand o' history made the war 'bout tariffs in spite o' the fact that the current tariff scheme in place at the time o' the war were actually authored by southern states.  calhoun and others in the south promoted an idea o' state nullification, but the need for nullification were precisely 'cause o' disagreements 'bout slavery. the southern state declarations o' cessation invariably mentioned slavery as a fundamental point o' irreconcilable disagreement, but in the south, many kids is still taught that slavery were a propaganda issue cooked up in the north.

 

still, removal o' civil war computer games and apps is silly... 'course we think that the whole approach to flag removal has been counter-productive, so am perhaps not the most neutral observer.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited June 25, 2015 by Gromnir

[BruceVC]

Wow. That's pretty pathetic. Quick! Scrub the Civil War from history books too!

 

For a funny example of overreacting - http://www.macrumors.com/2015/06/25/apple-removes-civil-war-games-confederate-flag/

 

Okay that really seems a step to far..seriously guys 

 

It reminds me of what we going through in South Africa. There is a movement called  " Rhodes must fall "   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhodes_Must_Fall    where a vociferous group of people want to remove any statues and memorabilia associated with colonialism or British history. I have no issues with statues being moved to museums because apparently they are offensive but people want them destroyed and basically they want to change and or become unaware of history 

 

Colonialism was a terrible injustice to African people but you cannot deny it happened, it is part of African history. And people like Rhodes represent the good and the bad of that history

 

" Those who cannot remember the past, are condemned to repeat it." 

 

It would be like the Jews deciding the Holocaust never happened and deciding to remove any references to it  in there history books. Its counter productive to a progressive future as we learn from our mistakes and the actions that others inflict on us 

[Tsuga C]

The NRA in the USA never ceases to be amaze me with its myopic view on gun violence , there solution to this type of attack  is " more guns  for the public "

More firearms in the hands of law abiding citizens makes for a more massacre-resistant society.

[Tsuga C]

Flags, by their nature, are symbols of something greater.

Yes, they are.

 

"Vilification of that battle flag and the Confederacy is part of the cultural revolution in America that flowered half a century ago. Among its goals was the demoralization of the American people by demonizing their past and poisoning their belief in their own history."

[Elerond]

 

The NRA in the USA never ceases to be amaze me with its myopic view on gun violence , there solution to this type of attack  is " more guns  for the public "

More firearms in the hands of law abiding citizens makes for a more massacre-resistant society.

 

 

Definitely http://shootingtracker.com/wiki/Mass_Shootings_in_2014 

[Hurlshort]

 

Flags, by their nature, are symbols of something greater.

Yes, they are.

 

"Vilification of that battle flag and the Confederacy is part of the cultural revolution in America that flowered half a century ago. Among its goals was the demoralization of the American people by demonizing their past and poisoning their belief in their own history."

What an overly wordy and simply odd way to characterize the civil rights movement.

[Wrath of Dagon]

For a funny example of overreacting - http://www.macrumors.com/2015/06/25/apple-removes-civil-war-games-confederate-flag/

Let the censorship begin! Are they going to stop selling Crusader Kings too?

 

Also this : http://www.nationalreview.com/article/420211/left-activist-peak-kevin-d-williamson

[Ineth]

Also this : http://www.nationalreview.com/article/420211/left-activist-peak-kevin-d-williamson

 

A little harsh, but it does make some good points. I think this hits the nail on the head:

 

"The Confederate flag, and other rebel iconography, is a marker of Southern distinctiveness, which, like American distinctiveness, is inextricably bound up with the enslavement and oppression of black people. But only the South is irredeemable in the Left’s view, and it has been so only since about 1994, when it went Republican."

[Ganrich]

I agree with that blurb, as well, Ineth. I do love how America acts like civil rights violations only have occurred south of the mason Dixon line, and/or were only Confederate issues. The Japanese-Americans in internment camps during WW2, those native Americans on the trail of tears, those that died of small pox delivered by blankets all might feel differently. Those atrocities were committed under the American Flag.

[Wrath of Dagon]

Not only that, but slavery still existed in the US after the Confederacy already ceased to exist.

[Gromnir]

I agree with that blurb, as well, Ineth. I do love how America acts like civil rights violations only have occurred south of the mason Dixon line, and/or were only Confederate issues. The Japanese-Americans in internment camps during WW2, those native Americans on the trail of tears, those that died of small pox delivered by blankets all might feel differently. Those atrocities were committed under the American Flag.

 

...

 

we had never considered that recognition o' civil war era southern slavery were somehow lessening or eradicating other instances o' American failures related to live up to promises made in our Constitution.  converse, Gromnir sharing links 'bout the current conditions at Pine Ridge, conditions which is significantly worse than gaza AFTER the recent israeli-gaza conflict, doesn't change the history o' the American south.  

 

blame game is kinda childish.  little kid gets caught stealing a cookie and then observes that his sister and/or brother also stole a cookie.  is the ploy o' a pre-teen.  am thinking we should expect more from each other, yes?

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Ganrich]

Except that is all this ordeal has become, Gromnir. It is a blame game. The south is racist. Those flags prove it. Anyone defending those flags are deemed a Klan member and burned at the stake (metaphorically). The videos you linked, probably in jest, kinda prove that point.

 

However, let's not talk about those other flags as that is finger pointing.

 

Sorry, if the South has dirty hands then we Americans all have dirty hands. I find it funny that we also like to say slavery in the South. Slavery was in America. The north had slaves as well, but came to their moral senses faster. Guess what? The people in the Union had slaves prior to the whole war, but we don't talk about that either. However the north are the perfect little angels while us southerners are the devil. It is incredibly obnoxious.

 

"The history of slavery in the South" = let's avoid that fact that slavery was an American issue first. It seems fine to claim the southern slavery situation worse because their was a war? It lasted longer in the South? IMHO, it was all foul and done under every flag prior to abolition.

 

In the end racism as it exists will remain after those flags are down. Eventually all the mirrors will be broken and the smoke cleared and the only thing left to look at will be Government institutions and humanity as a whole. No more boogie man to blame, and we will have lost just as much as we gained.

 

Say what you will about the South... Charleston hasn't rioted.

[Elerond]

Say what you will about the South... Charleston hasn't rioted.

 

Why would they? As far as I can see there was crime, but justice seem to be serve according to how people would except it to be served. Rioting happens usually when people feel that there has been some sort injustice or major sport event.

 

I would guess that if there will be riots they will be in Columbia if people feel that removal of that the flag that now gets lots of attention is injustice and against their will.

[Ganrich]

That's a fair point. Didn't think of it that way.

[Barothmuk]

I like how little discussion there is about combating the ideas and ideals that guy had

What do you propose?

[Meshugger]

 

I like how little discussion there is about combating the ideas and ideals that guy had

What do you propose?

 

 

Widening the spectrum of what is politically correct and what can be debated in society at large. Since these guys seems to be have been quite isolated and never had their worldview challenged due those reasons, I see it as a pre-emptive measure in order to combat possible anti-social attitudes. I mean, the first step for these kinds of people always seem to that they have lost the connection to the very society that they inhabit.

 

These ideas are quite difficult to implement and i have no idea on how that could be done.

[Barothmuk]

I don't believe I could tolerate a world where tumblr and /pol/ were given a larger political platform.

[Meshugger]

I don't believe I could tolerate a world where tumblr and /pol/ were given a larger political platform.

 

Would such a world make you become mad enough to go out and, lets say, shoot people?

 

Joking aside, as i see having a great character, strong sense of morals, professing rectitude, purpose and principles can only come from the individual. I do hope however that these characterictics emerge from having a broader narrative than that we have now. Currently, it seems like we  are only creating our own social bubbles with no interaction with each other, leaving the main one imagining that it represents society.