PoE expansion: The White March part 1

[Blarghagh]

Will the new NPCs be like Sarevok, as in only available in that expansions content, or will they be "transplanted" into what came before?

[Namutree]

 

 

 

Well, it all depends on how they play the soul angle? She could end up like Shale for instance - though presumably more evil. I'm hoping that there is no moral absolutism. I hate it, it tends to be be way too simplistic to subscribe to human motivations . So hopefully she isn't "alignment stupid" as in lawful/chaotic evil.

 

There's already plenty of morally ambiguous companions and not everyone's motivations are complicated. At least one simple minded people companion with no moral ambiguity would be refreshing. It's not like you have to use her. If Obsidian is just gonna make all the new companions basically the same as the old ones; why even bother adding them?

 

It's not so much complicated motivations - it's more the way previous games have forced the evil alignments into behaving in an incredibly stupid manner. An example is NW2, right at the beggining where your village is being attached and yet - as an evil person you are supposed to kill someone who potentially can help defend the village - just because you're evil. So it's more being evil for evil's sake I have an issue with.

 

Ah, now I get it, and that's perfectly reasonable. Nothing wrong with her having motivations for her evil deeds as long as she or the game doesn't try to make it seem justified. 

 

I'm guess is that she has to kill people and drain energy from their soul to use as fuel for her body or something like that though.

Edited June 24, 2015 by Namutree

[Namutree]

Will the new NPCs be like Sarevok, as in only available in that expansions content, or will they be "transplanted" into what came before?

I think you have to go to the new areas to get them, but you can still take them back into the main game.

[rheingold]

 

 

 

 

Well, it all depends on how they play the soul angle? She could end up like Shale for instance - though presumably more evil. I'm hoping that there is no moral absolutism. I hate it, it tends to be be way too simplistic to subscribe to human motivations . So hopefully she isn't "alignment stupid" as in lawful/chaotic evil.

 

There's already plenty of morally ambiguous companions and not everyone's motivations are complicated. At least one simple minded people companion with no moral ambiguity would be refreshing. It's not like you have to use her. If Obsidian is just gonna make all the new companions basically the same as the old ones; why even bother adding them?

 

It's not so much complicated motivations - it's more the way previous games have forced the evil alignments into behaving in an incredibly stupid manner. An example is NW2, right at the beggining where your village is being attached and yet - as an evil person you are supposed to kill someone who potentially can help defend the village - just because you're evil. So it's more being evil for evil's sake I have an issue with.

 

Ah, now I get it, and that's perfectly reasonable. Nothing wrong with her having motivations for her evil deeds as long as she or the game doesn't try to make it seem justified. 

 

I'm guess is that she has to kill people and drain energy from their soul to use as fuel for her body or something like that though.

 

That would actually be very cool, hopefully it would be someting like that!

[Luckmann]

Can't say I'm a fan of the episodic approach. Why not just give us a real expansion? It's what practically everyone was asking for since well before the Kickstarter.

Also, it feels like it puts a nail in the coffin when it comes to getting actual expansions in the future, and I know a lot of people were hoping for expansion of the main game and going to regions it might make sense for us to go, but we can't (Eir Glanfath, the actual Dyrwood Forest(s)/Kindle Vale/Abbey of the Cloven Wheel, etc).

 

Will the new NPCs be like Sarevok, as in only available in that expansions content, or will they be "transplanted" into what came before?

 

If the CNPC:s aren't fully integrated into the game (meaning interjections into the main storyline, interactions with other CNPC:s, etc) and if we don't have logical reason to actually do the travelling it's going to involve going to the White March (essentially making it a DLC glued on to the side of the game) I'm probably going to simply put PoE away in disgust and try to never think of it again.

[Venatio]

Can't say I'm a fan of the episodic approach. Why not just give us a real expansion? It's what practically everyone was asking for since well before the Kickstarter.

 

Also, it feels like it puts a nail in the coffin when it comes to getting actual expansions in the future, and I know a lot of people were hoping for expansion of the main game and going to regions it might make sense for us to go, but we can't (Eir Glanfath, the actual Dyrwood Forest(s)/Kindle Vale/Abbey of the Cloven Wheel, etc).

 

The Devs said that as the expansion was promised before the game was released that it was decided it would be best to release part of the expansion early so as not to keep the Kickstarter backers waiting too long for something. Hence why we get Part 1 now as opposed to getting the whole thing 3 months from now. So it's really more of a quirk than anything representing how future expansions will play out. Still, I don't mind getting something early if it means we can play with it while we wait for it to be completed. 

[Rosveen]

 

Can't say I'm a fan of the episodic approach. Why not just give us a real expansion? It's what practically everyone was asking for since well before the Kickstarter.

 

Also, it feels like it puts a nail in the coffin when it comes to getting actual expansions in the future, and I know a lot of people were hoping for expansion of the main game and going to regions it might make sense for us to go, but we can't (Eir Glanfath, the actual Dyrwood Forest(s)/Kindle Vale/Abbey of the Cloven Wheel, etc).

 

The Devs said that as the expansion was promised before the game was released that it was decided it would be best to release part of the expansion early so as not to keep the Kickstarter backers waiting too long for something. Hence why we get Part 1 now as opposed to getting the whole thing 3 months from now. So it's really more of a quirk than anything representing how future expansions will play out. Still, I don't mind getting something early if it means we can play with it while we wait for it to be completed. 

 

This reasoning doesn't make sense to me because by splitting it in two, they essentially give us smaller DLC when the original idea was to avoid small DLC. Yes, I know, the second part is a continuation of the story... But it doesn't change the fact that what I install and play the day it comes out won't be a full-fledged expansion. So I'm going to wait.

[Luckmann]

 

Can't say I'm a fan of the episodic approach. Why not just give us a real expansion? It's what practically everyone was asking for since well before the Kickstarter.

 

Also, it feels like it puts a nail in the coffin when it comes to getting actual expansions in the future, and I know a lot of people were hoping for expansion of the main game and going to regions it might make sense for us to go, but we can't (Eir Glanfath, the actual Dyrwood Forest(s)/Kindle Vale/Abbey of the Cloven Wheel, etc).

 

The Devs said that as the expansion was promised before the game was released that it was decided it would be best to release part of the expansion early so as not to keep the Kickstarter backers waiting too long for something. Hence why we get Part 1 now as opposed to getting the whole thing 3 months from now. So it's really more of a quirk than anything representing how future expansions will play out. Still, I don't mind getting something early if it means we can play with it while we wait for it to be completed. 

 

 

Well that explanation is rubbish. Imagine if the same logic would've been applied on the base game, that it should be released as quickly as possible so that the financiers wouldn't have to wait for too long. What it means is that each part is essentially going to have to be self-contained, and it's almost going to have to have that exact "DLC" or "glued on" quality no-one in their right mind would want.

[Nakia]

To me the companions are fairly straight forward.  Eder hero-worships his brother.  Aloth is actually a bit more complicated because of his affiliation with the Leaden Key.  Kana again to me is straight forward as a dedicated seeker after knowledge although he would like this knowledge to prove his opinions correct.  (just as most of us do).  I won't list the others but I consider them also fairly simplistic in their problems and quest.  I would love to have one more complicated, with more twists.

[Luckmann]

To me the companions are fairly straight forward.  Eder hero-worships his brother.  Aloth is actually a bit more complicated because of his affiliation with the Leaden Key.  Kana again to me is straight forward as a dedicated seeker after knowledge although he would like this knowledge to prove his opinions correct.  (just as most of us do).  I won't list the others but I consider them also fairly simplistic in their problems and quest.  I would love to have one more complicated, with more twists.

 

I loved Durance's, and I don't think that was very straight-forward. The conclusion is still.. odd as all hell, though, and really turned me off the entire game. I haven't played since I concluded his quest.

[Elerond]

 

 

Can't say I'm a fan of the episodic approach. Why not just give us a real expansion? It's what practically everyone was asking for since well before the Kickstarter.

 

Also, it feels like it puts a nail in the coffin when it comes to getting actual expansions in the future, and I know a lot of people were hoping for expansion of the main game and going to regions it might make sense for us to go, but we can't (Eir Glanfath, the actual Dyrwood Forest(s)/Kindle Vale/Abbey of the Cloven Wheel, etc).

 

The Devs said that as the expansion was promised before the game was released that it was decided it would be best to release part of the expansion early so as not to keep the Kickstarter backers waiting too long for something. Hence why we get Part 1 now as opposed to getting the whole thing 3 months from now. So it's really more of a quirk than anything representing how future expansions will play out. Still, I don't mind getting something early if it means we can play with it while we wait for it to be completed. 

 

 

Well that explanation is rubbish. Imagine if the same logic would've been applied on the base game, that it should be released as quickly as possible so that the financiers wouldn't have to wait for too long. What it means is that each part is essentially going to have to be self-contained, and it's almost going to have to have that exact "DLC" or "glued on" quality no-one in their right mind would want.

 

 

It don't necessary need to be self-contained even if it is divided in million parts, as future parts can always inject parts of them in content that already exists and there are ways to tell story so that it explains perceptible wait between parts and if you plan core parts for all the parts that you plan to release ahead of time then you can even put clues and references about upcoming parts in those parts that are released first. But of course it is much easier to add additional parts in the game if you keep them separate and self-contained from rest of the game.

[Sannom]

Can't say I'm a fan of the episodic approach. Why not just give us a real expansion? It's what practically everyone was asking for since well before the Kickstarter.

What do you mean exactly by "a real expansion"? To me, the White March sounds like it.

[Gfted1]

They probably mean that since White March will be released in two separate parts, that its episodic.

[Luckmann]

 

Can't say I'm a fan of the episodic approach. Why not just give us a real expansion? It's what practically everyone was asking for since well before the Kickstarter.

What do you mean exactly by "a real expansion"? To me, the White March sounds like it.

 

 

Real expansions, as opposed to piecemeal DLC:s chopped up and doled out in connected or stand-alone episodes or pieces that can be cashed in on over and over again. Interestingly, FO:NV was probably one of the worst offenders in recent memory.

[Sannom]

Real expansions, as opposed to piecemeal DLC:s chopped up and doled out in connected or stand-alone episodes or pieces that can be cashed in on over and over again. Interestingly, FO:NV was probably one of the worst offenders in recent memory.

I'm still not clear on what your definition of "expansion" is, sorry. Does it need to continue the story / be another story entirely, as opposed to a new hub in the same story? Because Throne of Bhaal had the Watch Tower (or whatever the name of that thing) and I understand that this is pretty much how BG1's expansion worked too.

[View619]

So, if they release both parts for $20 each instead of a "full" version for $40 at a later date would it still be an issue?

[Sarex]

Wait wasn't one of their big pitches no DLC and "expansions", instead we were getting a stand alone proper expansion in the vain of the old IE games...LOL... Man I can't wait until Obsidian pitches another KS, I am going to be laughing my ass off.

Edited June 24, 2015 by Sarex

[Luckmann]

 

Real expansions, as opposed to piecemeal DLC:s chopped up and doled out in connected or stand-alone episodes or pieces that can be cashed in on over and over again. Interestingly, FO:NV was probably one of the worst offenders in recent memory.

I'm still not clear on what your definition of "expansion" is, sorry. Does it need to continue the story / be another story entirely, as opposed to a new hub in the same story? Because Throne of Bhaal had the Watch Tower (or whatever the name of that thing) and I understand that this is pretty much how BG1's expansion worked too.

 

 

By the most loose of definitions, an expansion is anything that expands upon the game itself. That's really all there is to it. Often, people separate between DLC:s and Expansions rather arbitrarily based on perceived amount of content - DLC:s tend to be small and entirely self-contained. An expansion can either continue the story (Throne of Bhaal comes to mind) or be another story entirely that is connected to the main game in some way (usually terrible and somewhat jarring), or be a direct expansion and improvement of the main game itself (Tales of the Sword Coast and partly Throne of Bhaal, etc).

 

So, if they release both parts for $20 each instead of a "full" version for $40 at a later date would it still be an issue?

There's no way to know, since those two are mutually exclusive. It's easy to say "Oh, it's just one whole thing split in two, and half price instead", but it's practically near-impossible to substantiate.

 

What would you have preferred for FONV? Four good but glued-on-to-the-sides, related but completely stand-alone, DLC:s at $10 each, or a full-blown cohesive and well-integrated expansion upon the game world for $40?

 

I know which one I'd pick.

 

But I also know which one is the profiteer's choice.

 

Wait wasn't one of their big pitches no DLC and "expansions", instead we were getting a stand alone proper expansion in the vain of the old IE games...LOL... Man I can't wait until Obsidian pitches another KS, I am going to be laughing my ass off.

I used to really support the idea of a Kickstarter for PoE2, but I don't think they're going to go that route. On one hand, they could do really well with the new fans that they've pulled in, but on the other hand, they've also alienated a lot of the hardcore core, little by little.

 

And yeah, sure, customers are customers, all of them pay one way or another, fair enough, but fans aren't all the same, and I'll take the diehard core of crazies over the fickle masses any day of the week. KS:s are fuelled by hype and expectations, and promoted by word-of-mouth and grassroot nolifers, and that's just not a thing with the modernists.

Edited June 24, 2015 by Luckmann

[Eisenheinrich]

From all I heard and saw, this is a proper expansion and not on the level of a random DLC. New areas, new plot, but building upon the main-storyline, new companions, new game mechanics (invidual stealth, Party AI), not only for the expansion, but for the main game (you don't even have to pay, to get those), new talents, new items etc. etc. Couldn't care less, they split it in two parts, as I expect, you only have to pay for ONE expansion and get both parts. They just release the firtst one earlier. No prob at all, you gonna have to be a real pessimist to suspect some sort of scam behind this. It's, by all terms, an expansion in the classical way. 

Edited June 24, 2015 by Eisenheinrich

[Luckmann]

From all I heard and saw, this is a proper expansion and not on the level of a random DLC. New areas, new plot, but building upon the main-storyline, new companions, new game mechanics (invidual stealth, Party AI), not only for the expansion, but for the main game (you don't even have to pay, to get those), new talents, new items etc. etc. Couldn't care less, they split it in two parts, as I expect, you only have to pay for ONE expansion and get both parts. They just release the firtst one earlier. No prob at all, you gonna have to be a real pessimist to suspect some sort of scam behind this. It's, by all terms, an expansion in the classical way.

By all terms? No. Real expansions are not typically split into pieces, and certainly not expansions "in the classical way".

 

Also, not a pessimist, but a realist. I cannot see a way that this is ultimately beneficial, compared to a full expansion. This doesn't mean that everything is doom and gloom, or that I'm saying that it'll turn out terribly.

 

But if I'm wrong, and this doesn't negatively impact the state of the game in some way, I'll eat my hat.

 

And either way, it's decidingly not what was promised in the Kickstarter, which was specifically (a) classic expansion(s); not episodic content, not DLC:s, and not piecemeal parts.

 

I wonder what they're going to do about the inevitable power creep. Two levels for Part 1 and two levels for Part 2 is going to throw a massive spanner in the works in a game that already suffers extensively from pacing issues. I wonder if they're going to address the mechanical problems with spellcasters or if they're fine with the enormous jumps in power.

[Eisenheinrich]

By all terms? No. Real expansions are not typically split into pieces, and certainly not expansions "in the classical way".

 

They're not "splitting it into pieces", they're parting it in two halfes due to the urge of the community for new PoE-Material. As long as we don't know, how long each part will be, there's no need for early damnation. If each part is around 10 hours of gameplay, I'm fine. Should the concerns come true, and this "part 1" is more of a DLC 4 hour kind of add-on, I'll chime in with the critics and bash the **** out of it, promised!

Edited June 24, 2015 by Eisenheinrich

[RedJen]

How about the stronghold fix and individual sneaking fix？

Hopefully we'll see those before expansion.

[willyum]

Rats. When I backed, I remember adding $20. Turned out it was the for audio CD. Lol.

 

Guess I'll just wait until the expansion is actually released.

[AndreaColombo]

About splitting the expansion in twain.

 

One thing to consider is that today's world is much more fast paced than what it used to be back when TotSC and ToB were released. Nowadays it is imperative to strike the iron while it's hot as people won't wait long after beating a game before they uninstall it and move on. For the expansion to sell well (seeing as expansions typically sell less than the base game to begin with) it is critical for it to hit the (virtual) shelves as early as possible. From a commercial standpoint, it makes sense for Obsidian to split it in twain if they want to offer more content—the alternative would be to rush a smaller expansion, which would definitely run counter all they promised.

 

We have no way to confirm whether price will indeed be cut in half to reflect the fact that it is a single product, but I'll give them the benefit of doubt on that. Let's see how the expansion comes along

[Draghmar]

Hm...I have one little question. In the newsletter there is sentence:

The expansion will come in two parts, and backers who already purchased the expansion will receive both part I and II.

So...how can I buy this expansion already? Was there some tier on kickstarter that gave this or is there some page where I can buy it right now?