Dump stat constitution ?

[endruwiggin]

We all want to do damage, attack faster, and have somewhat high perception-intellect-resolve for conversation checks .... so does that make constitution the dump stat ?

 

[Namutree]

All of the attributes are going to be about just as good as each other outside of combat.

 

CON can be a dump stat though depending on your class, build, and whether you intend to reach max level.

Edited March 25, 2015 by Namutree

[Robik]

I plan to max perception and resolve, rest are dump stats. :D

[Halsy]

That makes me dearly hope there are encounters where perception and resolve are entirely useless and the only way to plow through it is put your fist in it. Talk is cheap. Whiskey costs money.

[Fluffsy]

Dexterity and Perception all the way! Gotta be able to find and steal them treasures.

[DarkWanderer]

If you are tank (warrior) - you should max con, if you are pure dmger you should dump con (wizard, rogue), if you are intermediate (paladin, barbarian, druid) you should put some points in con - though not necesserily max. I would not alter priests con (10). Oh and chanters con shoud be high (if not maxed) too.

 

!!! IMHO !!!

 

 

Obviously all that depends on your build, prefferences and such xP

Edited March 25, 2015 by DarkWanderer

[NorthernSquirrel]

Okay, so:

 

Death Godlike Cipher AKA MINDFLAYING MOTHER****ER WHO WILL REK YOUR DAY

 

1.2 damage multiplier on <50% hp targets

1.2 damage multiplier from Biting Whip

 

Primary stats: Might and  Resolve (Going with Resolve as I understand that it has more dialogue effects, while perception might be the better choice from a numerical standpoint)

 

Secondary stats: Dexterity/Perception

Dexterity speeds up action times, nets more focus with faster attacks.

Perception gives defense.

 

Why no intelligence? Ciphers lack aoe and already gain will through Resolve. Base stat effect duration is 15 seconds apparently, and average attack cast is 3 seconds.if a point in INT gives 5% longer duration, you need to spend 4-5 points to get enough duration boost for your stat effect  to affect the enemy's attack one more time, so not worth it.

Why no CON? Doesn't scale with it as well as other classes. Defense is achieved through high deflection, which is further increased by Psychovampiric Shield.

[Voss]

We all want to do damage, attack faster, and have somewhat high perception-intellect-resolve for conversation checks .... so does that make constitution the dump stat ?

 

Unless tanking, yes.

 

Barring intentionally building something odd, You build characters as tanks or not tanks.  If tanks, you want Per/Res/Con, and if not tanks, Might/Int/Dex (with the latter two shuffled if you have a lot of duration & AoE abilities or not.  Ignore the design goals and random opinions on the subject- attribute builds are A or B and all about dump stats.

[Failion]

Depends on the character class. There probably going to be fights in this game like dragons or mass wave of enemies. Where the best defense could be having a higher hp pool.

[dtolman]

If you're dumping constitution... better be prepared to sit in the back for big fights (or spend it grievously wounded). Might be better off dumping might if you're going to be in the back anyway.

[Luckmann]

Generally speaking, Constitution isn't very good, no, and it's likely not involved in many conversations. For scripted events, though, I can imagine that there'd be a lot.

 

 

We all want to do damage, attack faster, and have somewhat high perception-intellect-resolve for conversation checks .... so does that make constitution the dump stat ?

 

Unless tanking, yes.

 

Barring intentionally building something odd, You build characters as tanks or not tanks.  If tanks, you want Per/Res/Con, and if not tanks, Might/Int/Dex (with the latter two shuffled if you have a lot of duration & AoE abilities or not.  Ignore the design goals and random opinions on the subject- attribute builds are A or B and all about dump stats.

 

 

There are actually many tanking builds that lets you just not take any Constitution anyway, despite the fact that you're tanking.

[BigBripa]

If you plan on being any kind of front liner then don't dump CON, there are supposed to be plenty of CON checks as well. If you are tank it has been put forth that you actually do better maxing RES over CON for deflection purposes. I don't know how much more efficient it is.

 

ETA: for tanks* and b/c ambushes, Engagement, and optional permadeath

Edited March 25, 2015 by BigBripa

[Voss]

Generally speaking, Constitution isn't very good, no, and it's likely not involved in many conversations. For scripted events, though, I can imagine that there'd be a lot.

 

 

We all want to do damage, attack faster, and have somewhat high perception-intellect-resolve for conversation checks .... so does that make constitution the dump stat ?

 

Unless tanking, yes.

 

Barring intentionally building something odd, You build characters as tanks or not tanks.  If tanks, you want Per/Res/Con, and if not tanks, Might/Int/Dex (with the latter two shuffled if you have a lot of duration & AoE abilities or not.  Ignore the design goals and random opinions on the subject- attribute builds are A or B and all about dump stats.

 

 

There are actually many tanking builds that lets you just not take any Constitution anyway, despite the fact that you're tanking.

 

Yeah, true.  In some cases you can totally get away with ditching Con  (or Int or Dex).  I was overgeneralizing a bit.

[LadyCrimson]

Interesting. I'm so used to health/con being at least somewhat important in most games. Maybe I'll try an all low-Con party.

...I'm probably going to go insane with the learning curve, since I haven't been keeping up with all the beta or build info these months. Good times!

[wolfrider100]

Going to try and max perception/resolve and put what's left into might, dexterity and intellect. Making this a fighter tank

 

build but I'm not using constitution going to leave that at a ten. Boy oh boy this learning curve will drive me nuts at first.

Edited March 25, 2015 by wolfrider100

[Ink Blot]

Interesting. I'm so used to health/con being at least somewhat important in most games. Maybe I'll try an all low-Con party.

...I'm probably going to go insane with the learning curve, since I haven't been keeping up with all the beta or build info these months. Good times!

Yeah it's interesting shifting the mindset to giving casters higher Might and everyone but tanks lower CON.

[Enoch]

Back-liners still probably need enough Endurance to stay upright through AoE attacks.  And hopefully there will be at least a few surprises in the encounter design.  I'm leaning towards the "leave it at 10" approach. 

[Gromnir]

Interesting. I'm so used to health/con being at least somewhat important in most games. 

for true?

 

in our experience, most crpgs do not place a particular emphasis on the health stat. wasteland 2, fallouts, even d&d 3e and beyond were having the health attribute a bit marginalized save for specific character builds. health is rarely a prime attribute in a class-based system, 'cause every character gets use outta health, so is bad sense to give a class a chance to get double benefits from one attribute.  in classless systems, whatever attributes control skill point rates or movement/action capacity typically become most important. 

 

health is typical a suck attribute... which is why we were hoping for more from obsidian's endurance/health system.  a genuine fatigue system for all actions including spell casting woulda' made constitution universal important, but that isn't what we got, and so con remains a secondary attribute, at best, for most builds.

 

but as we has noted elsewhere, starting attributes in poe is not near as significant as some folks is imagining.  

 

HA! Good Fun!

[NorthernSquirrel]

To sort of illustrate why deflection/will etc. might overall be a preferred stat to constitution:

 

1 point in CON gives +3% Endurance and Health

1 point in Resolve gives 1 Deflection

 

Every point of deflection you get over your enemy increases the cases out of 100 where you take no damage by 1, take 50% by 1, and decrease a case of full damage by 1.

 

While 10 points in constitution might give you 30% more health, 10 points in Resolve in addition to other things gives you (assuming same base deflection/accuracy between defender/attacker) 66% increased chance of having enemy attack miss (base 15%, with +10 deflection 25%), 29% increased odds to take 50% damage (base 35%, with +10 45%), and decrease chances of taking full damage by 20% (50% -> 40%) while also giving you safety against critical hits.

Edited March 25, 2015 by NorthernSquirrel

[Stun]

Plus, in PoE the Constitution modifier is percentage based, which means it's far more useful for classes that already get a high base health pool, like Barbarians and Fighters, since the bonus health will be exponentially more (+25% of, say, 500 health is a lot more than +25% of 200 health, for example).

 

I'm not sure I'm a big fan of that. Because the only reason I'd want to pump constitution on a character in the first place would be if he was one of those low health squishies (like mages and rogues), in order to minimize their weaknesses. But as it stands one is better off spending attribute points on making a class's strengths stronger, than trying to eliminate the class's weaknesses.

Edited March 25, 2015 by Stun

[LadyCrimson]

for true?

 [ ... ]

I wasn't saying that one would ever have made a party with chrs. who all had mega CON or something, haha. Just that I did tend to put a few points in it for melee chrs (not ranged, mind). Sometimes those few extra health points helped in a big fight imo...depends a lot on playstyle I suppose of course. I tend to like somewhat rounded chrs, to a point, vs. a mega dumping stat to max others higher.

 

The impression I'm getting here tho is that even many "tank" builds may not care at all about any extra CON, which just feels strange to me, a not-D&D player, is all.

[sparklecat]

I'm assuming that the only class I'd see CON as near-mandatory for are monks, since you can't use your abilities if a) you're not taking enough damage, or b) you're dead.

[Fredward]

Not necessarily a spoiler, depends on how sensitive you are to info I found on the wiki.

 

 

I checked the wiki and the highest int check was 18 (I'm assuming though that those aren't ALL the attribute checks in the game... right? Right?) res and per were both 16 I think. They seemed to get used pretty often. The other stuff also get used but are usually actions, not talking and I get the vibe that there are ways to go around them if you have the right items. Though that's just an impression.

 

Edited March 25, 2015 by Fredward

[Uomoz]

I guess Con will be far more useful at higher difficulties (Hard-PotD), and less in lower difficulties. On normal it should be fairly dumpable(?).

[Voss]

I'm assuming that the only class I'd see CON as near-mandatory for are monks, since you can't use your abilities if a) you're not taking enough damage, or b) you're dead.

Yeah, the other side of this is that CON is a % increase.  So it gives a lot more to monks and barbarians, and jack/squat to wizards and priests.

Edited March 25, 2015 by Voss