bad design decisions

[GreyFox]

You can't drop items on the ground? Damn I didn't even realize that was a thing...as in...games have been doing that for what 20 years? 

Not sure how that's not a thing but I guess I'm more confused than anything.

 

I don't care about scripts either as I actually like to play my games and not have them play for me. There are plenty of games now that are basically interactive movie/novels so...there's always those for people who don't enjoy DOING things in the game.

Edited January 23, 2015 by GreyFox

[MReed]

Dropping items on the ground is a non-trivial item to implement (you need an icon for the loot on the ground and some UI changes to provide a place to drag items to indicate that they should be dropped), and given the unlimited stash it makes sense to eliminate it.

 

However, they really should include an option to destroy an item altogether -- that's less expensive to implement, and I suspect that it would satisfy 80-90% of the use cases for "dropping items on the ground".  Even this is only required because "limited stash" is, as far as I know, still a gameplay option.

[Lephys]

Ahh... Why do you care how i want to play game ?

I don't think he does. I think he just dislikes automation.

 

The more the game's built around supporting and granting purpose to automation, the less there is to react to in combat. So, it's a feasible point.

 

It would be like saying "first-person-shooting can take a hike." Doesn't mean people can't play games with first-person shooting and like them, but maybe he doesn't want to see this game bend itself to fit that design feature.

[Starwars]

However, they really should include an option to destroy an item altogether -- that's less expensive to implement, and I suspect that it would satisfy 80-90% of the use cases for "dropping items on the ground".  Even this is only required because "limited stash" is, as far as I know, still a gameplay option.

 

I know I personally would really like for an option to simply destroy an item.

Edited January 23, 2015 by Starwars

[Lord Wafflebum]

On the back of the game box among the endorsements I hope it says:

 

"I think we all know that this [Pillars of Eternity] is going to work out brilliantly. It's going to soar into the sky until we stand and watch it, mouth open and eyes burning, shading our faces from the blinding radiance." -Nipsen the Unbacker

[GreyFox]

Dropping items on the ground is a non-trivial item to implement (you need an icon for the loot on the ground and some UI changes to provide a place to drag items to indicate that they should be dropped), and given the unlimited stash it makes sense to eliminate it.

 

However, they really should include an option to destroy an item altogether -- that's less expensive to implement, and I suspect that it would satisfy 80-90% of the use cases for "dropping items on the ground".  Even this is only required because "limited stash" is, as far as I know, still a gameplay option.

 

It shouldn't really be too hard to do and it's pretty much a no brainer for most games like this...even D:OS has it AND unlimited inventory as far as slots are concerned.

 

It's going to really look bad if PE isn't on par with Divinity considering how much earlier that game came out and it will be compared to it, make no mistake about that.

 

And honestly as much as I love Obsidian and the old school games...some of the terrible decisions this game has produced makes me appreciate D:OS that much more and I know I'm not the only one thinking that...especially with them going forward with their own/better engine the new games from Larian are going to be insanely good if D:OS is any indication.

Edited January 23, 2015 by GreyFox

[Lephys]

Wait... it's going to have blinding radiance?! I did NOT back for that! That wasn't in the IE games! Refund, please!

[Mr. Magniloquent]

Wait... it's going to have blinding radiance?! I did NOT back for that! That wasn't in the IE games! Refund, please!

 

Actually, Blinding Radiance is a D&D property. As such, PoE has Sight Inhibiting Photon Emissions.

[PrimeJunta]

 

Ahh... Why do you care how i want to play game ?

I don't think he does. I think he just dislikes automation.

 

The more the game's built around supporting and granting purpose to automation, the less there is to react to in combat. So, it's a feasible point.

 

It would be like saying "first-person-shooting can take a hike." Doesn't mean people can't play games with first-person shooting and like them, but maybe he doesn't want to see this game bend itself to fit that design feature.

 

It's also a matter of priorities. Every hour spent designing and implementing automation is an hour not spent on something else.

[PrimeJunta]

You can't drop items on the ground? Damn I didn't even realize that was a thing...as in...games have been doing that for what 20 years? 

Not sure how that's not a thing but I guess I'm more confused than anything.

 

I don't care about scripts either as I actually like to play my games and not have them play for me. There are plenty of games now that are basically interactive movie/novels so...there's always those for people who don't enjoy DOING things in the game.

 

People fixate on the weirdest things.

 

The only reason I drop things on the ground in games is to make room in the inventory. With unilmited inventory, why would I ever drop anything on the ground?

[Night Stalker]

 

You can't drop items on the ground? Damn I didn't even realize that was a thing...as in...games have been doing that for what 20 years? 

Not sure how that's not a thing but I guess I'm more confused than anything.

 

I don't care about scripts either as I actually like to play my games and not have them play for me. There are plenty of games now that are basically interactive movie/novels so...there's always those for people who don't enjoy DOING things in the game.

 

 

People fixate on the weirdest things.

 

The only reason I drop things on the ground in games is to make room in the inventory. With unilmited inventory, why would I ever drop anything on the ground?

And if you really feel a need to get rid of it, sell it, or stuff it in a container somewhere.

[ruzen]

Looking back from now I though future rpg's could have pack mule, horses to carry items, suplies. Tying to entrence of a cave and luke in shadows. More depth, intresting challanges but developers think players having fun with unlimited power and easy way out. With improved CPU,GPU,ram, etc... all we have cool effects. The only challange is healt bar going zero.

 

...but for the sake of the argument I think PrimeJunta is right. Since we have unlimited inventory there is no need for items to drop really. 

Edited January 24, 2015 by ruzen

[nipsen]

^Sounds a little bit like consistent logic. Woot.

 

Still, don't see a reason why you shouldn't be able to throw away carcasses and bones you don't need. I mean, if it causes problems in the engine somehow to have loose references or something, then why not just have endless inventory and disappear things you don't need, or something.. But there's no in-game world reason why you should have to put every single item into a magical luggage chest. 

[Hassat Hunter]

Every time I hear "PoE will suck, the sky is falling" I look at the poster and find it's one of those people who's opinion I pretty much can discard already anyway.

 

I won't be sad I can't "have gromnir cast spell, retreat, rest, go up, let them cast spells, retreat, rest until they are out of protections" is no longer a thing... *shrug*

It was super-cheap in BG, and you KNOW it.

 

Of course I will disagree with some decisions (infinite stash *ugh*) but there's no point fixating on that one thing while there's a whole game to enjoy. I can easily list a dozen+ items of what D:OS "bad design issues" are, and in the end it's a real fun game to play. Deus Ex? Vampire Bloodlines? All have design issues. But if you don't play them cause of those you really lacking out.

So excuse me if I don't go hide in terror because the sky is falling since PoE doesn't allow you to drop items (in the current build), Chicken Little...

[Mlatimudan]

 But there's no in-game world reason why you should have to put every single item into a magical luggage chest. 

 

Unless you can get your hands on "The Luggage"

 

maybe one of those magical shops that appear when you need them and disappear when you want a refund could come up

[Sensuki]

Ahh... Why do you care how i want to play game ?

I don't, but supporting that kind of stuff is expensive (programming time wise) and I'd prefer to see that time spent elsewhere.

[Yonjuro]

..honestly? After the kind of responses I got when I predicted exactly what would happen after the changes (never mind for the suggestions I made), it's not even bad for my karma to childisly gloat over how badly this has turned out. 

 

 

  Some of us don't agree that your predictions are accurate. I think you have been saying the following (if I'm wrong, let me know; I don't mean to put words in your mouth):

 

1. The initial design for PoE was excellent.

2. Changes were made to make the game more IE-like in response to forum posts.

3. As a result, the game is now irredeemably broken.

 

 Starting with item 1:  There are good ideas in the design, but almost all ideas need to be revised when you implement them. At OE, they have a team of testers who brought up issues with the game and they made changes.

 

 Item 2: See the response to item 1. Also, Josh Sawyer recently posted (on tumblr) that he doesn't respond to feedback on the forums if he feels that it would harm the game. I will take him at his word.

 

 Item 3: I have some misgivings about the game play, but most of them have to do with differences from the IE games such as, less comprehensive/powerful wizard spells, the engagement mechanic, angle grinder combat (a.k.a. death by 1000 paper cuts) etc., mainly things that were part of the original design. I still think that the game will be well worth playing. Most of my misgivings lead me to believe that it might not have as much replay value as the IE games (but I remain optimistic about that).

 

 So, you're entitled to your opinion but, when you claim that you clearly predicted the current dire situation, some of us just don't agree with you.

[GreyFox]

 

You can't drop items on the ground? Damn I didn't even realize that was a thing...as in...games have been doing that for what 20 years? 

Not sure how that's not a thing but I guess I'm more confused than anything.

 

I don't care about scripts either as I actually like to play my games and not have them play for me. There are plenty of games now that are basically interactive movie/novels so...there's always those for people who don't enjoy DOING things in the game.

 

People fixate on the weirdest things.

 

The only reason I drop things on the ground in games is to make room in the inventory. With unilmited inventory, why would I ever drop anything on the ground?

 

 

I'm not fixated on it in the sense that it's that big of a deal but it was funny and caught my eye when I saw that.

 

Maybe people want to free up their unlimited inventory to minimize the clutter? Why would people want to keep smelly underwear and 100s of notes from whoever NPC in their inventory? (IE stuff that could have been useful at one point but no longer is)

 

Do Merchants still have limited gold to buy our items with? If so that would clearly limit the sell all items you don't want option. Also in the IE games some items were not sell-able do we know if this is the case in PE?

 

Yea lets keep all the staff and clubs we find in our unlimited stash since I want to look at that every time I open it.

WYSIWYG loot is now a thing right? Pretty sure Josh Said that so if the merchants run out of gold or the item can't be sold we have to drop it or put it in some box somewhere...it's usually easier to toss an item on the floor than to find ye ole nearest box.

 

The main "problem" if you call it that is not everyone wants to fill up their inventory with garbage stuff, this is minimized if merchants can just buy anything with unlimited gold though.

Also in pre meditated response to the whole "don't pick it up then" idea is that you don't always know what is garbage or a hidden use item like the rogue stone in BG2.

Edited January 24, 2015 by GreyFox

[ctn2003]

NO! Josh is the perfect guy for the i mean he created Icewind dale 2 less than 10 months and its one of my fav RPG's they ALL have to work as a team to get poe made the right way. and their doing a good job but their are a few od ball things is all. josh understands dnd and story telling VERY well. perfect for poe

[archangel979]

By streams and such the game seems to be looking better and better. I just hope they can make it even better in expansion by putting back some of these stuff we collected here.

[JFSOCC]

so I finally dipped a toe into the Beta, I'm not to happy with only one talent per two levels. You can't really specialize your player character enough by level twelve that way. When you reach a certain point in the game, you want to feel like your character is significantly different from the rest, and I don't want to rely on just gear for that.

 

More granularity on the upgrade path would be terrific.

combat is too fast, but I believe that's a known issue.

 

gear information is inefficiently displayed, with the comparison feature bare bones.

 

capes don't seem to make use of the character colours.

[Luckmann]

so I finally dipped a toe into the Beta, I'm not to happy with only one talent per two levels. You can't really specialize your player character enough by level twelve that way. When you reach a certain point in the game, you want to feel like your character is significantly different from the rest, and I don't want to rely on just gear for that.

 

More granularity on the upgrade path would be terrific.

combat is too fast, but I believe that's a known issue.

 

gear information is inefficiently displayed, with the comparison feature bare bones.

 

capes don't seem to make use of the character colours.

 

For Talents, I think that the idea is that you get Abilities every other level, and Talents every other level, and that's supposed to add up to something each level.

 

In practice, this becomes incredibly lopsided for (most) casters, because on many levels, they really don't get anything to do at all, except spend Skill Points.

 

At the same time, I'm not sure giving Talents on every level would solve the problem; you'd just add to the effect in that every other level you'd get Abilities, and every other level you'd get "nothing" (because if you get talents every level, it would be just a default levelup thing, like skills).

 

But at the very least, I really think that you should get 1-2 Talents on Creation, to help chisel out a concept. I'd even be fine with it being "forced picks", such as one Class/Offensive Talent and one Defensive/Utility Talent.

[GordonHalfman]

Has anyone suggested the idea of giving a free "background" talent at level one? The game has quite a few talents that are sort of cool from the perspective of building a roleplaying archetype but a bit difficult to justify taking compared to stuff that gives you new abilities or buffs your basic combat efficiency. Like a lot of the utility talents for example fall into this category.

 

You could make the available set based on the choice of background, so for example the Hunter would get to choose from the favoured enemy type talents, the Mercenary could choose Arms Bearer and Field Triage, the Scientist gets Potent Potions, the Colonist gets Wound Binding, the Mystic gets the elemental damage ones. Some more generic ones like Snakes Reflexes could be available for all. I can't think of any for stuff like the clergyman or artist but maybe they could pick from the general list and get an extra skill point or something.

[lordkim]

Ehmmm whats with the walk !!

just saw a few vids with stuff... Its a f***** army walk hehehe..

 

talking about an arcade game.............

 

but i like the others stuff in the game..

Edited January 25, 2015 by lordkim

[Namutree]

I think the fact that being knocked out doesn't have a penalty is bad design. Maybe 10% of your health should be lost when you get knocked out. 5% for the barbarian.