Journalism and sexism in the games industry

[Gorgon]

It would be interesting to find out in more detail who compromises GG, as in demographics and  and such, since so many people seem to be engaged in telling you. 

[Keyrock]

Milo really went balls to the wall with this one:

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/11/12/The-authoritarian-Left-was-on-course-to-win-the-culture-wars-then-along-came-GamerGate

Milo really slathered the rhetoric on thick in that piece. 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

Do you guys just brush off the fact that most devs are against you?

 

Are they?

I suppose if one solely looks at the rainbow haired crowd it would appear that way. Of course, large devs have been quiet for the most part so make of that what you will. Edited November 12, 2014 by KaineParker

[Blarghagh]

KaineParker hits the nail on the head. Honestly, on both sides the devs that have gotten involved have been mostly, to be blunt, giant nobodies. The biggest name involved is probably Brad Wardell, whose company does make games but is mostly a tech company.

 

 

It would be interesting to find out in more detail who compromises GG, as in demographics and  and such, since so many people seem to be engaged in telling you. 

 

I've mentioned the poll before and I had a link at the time though I can't find it currently, there's no scientific evidence for anything regarding gender, age, orientation etc. but a vast majority, somewhere between 80 to 90% was left libertarian. The link should be in one of my posts in one of the earlier threads, but these threads and some of my posts in it are massive so I'm not going to look for it.

Edited November 12, 2014 by TrueNeutral

[Amentep]

 

Me neither. But i guess that she is like good 'ole Thompson.

If Thompson was packaged as a thirty-something feminist scholar with terrible taste in earings and you substituted "think of the children!" with "women are being harmed!" You would have Anita in a nutshell.

 

 

To be fair, I'm not sure we have any way to judge Thompson's taste in earrings, so its a bit difficult to tell if they have a difference in taste there or there or not.

 

Also - and just IMO - it seems a bit silly to talk about appearance in this situation.  Either they're similar in using shaky logic against a strawman evil they've built, or not, but I don't think their appearance matters one whit within that context.

[Lexx]

It shows that these folks are smart. Trying not to get dragged into this mess is the best thing they can do.

[Fighter]

Indie devs who don't fall in line with the rainbow haired social justice hipster crowd have a great deal to lose if they speak about it. Blacklisting is real.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

 

Me neither. But i guess that she is like good 'ole Thompson.

 

If Thompson was packaged as a thirty-something feminist scholar with terrible taste in earings and you substituted "think of the children!" with "women are being harmed!" You would have Anita in a nutshell.

 

To be fair, I'm not sure we have any way to judge Thompson's taste in earrings, so its a bit difficult to tell if they have a difference in taste there or there or not.

 

Also - and just IMO - it seems a bit silly to talk about appearance in this situation.  Either they're similar in using shaky logic against a strawman evil they've built, or not, but I don't think their appearance matters one whit within that context.

Thompson thinks earings are the Devil's jewelry.

 

I'm not of the opinion that Anita's taste in earings(as obnoxious as I find the giant hoops to be) is indicative of her arguments in any way. For me at least, it is a cheap throw away crack at the fashion tendencies, similar to jabs at the unnatural hair colors of other individuals.

[Amentep]

I find those distracting from the real message as well, to be honest.

 

If one wants to debate the theories fine, but it seems to me the wrong tact to take with a woman whose basic stance (in many people's minds - whether true or not) is that gamers are "anti-women" is to start throwing snarky commentary about how they look or dress, thus advocating that a woman's worth is in appearance rather than other qualities.

 

YMMV.

[namelesshero]

I see that one hurt a bit and you're trying to rationalize.

Devs I admired for a long long time like Tim Schafer and Ron Gilbert (and many more) have come out in the right side of this. It's no coincidence that the most prominent dev supporting gamergate has pretty much admitted to sexual harassment, then there's "indies" with kickstarter frauds, and "unknowns" who have made 0 games but of course it's the "sjw" blacklisting that's at fault. While we're at it, you don't seem to know  what blacklisting is.

Meanwhile you're grasping at straws with the Blizzard statement. Thing is I would really like it if more devs could share their honest opinions on gg but you probably wouldn't and you're making a damn fine job at making people(especially women, and that includes women of all hair colours) worried about expressing their opinions.

[Keyrock]

@namelesshero - This has nothing to do with GamerGate, but I think it's kind of funny that you mention Tim Schafer then accuse other nameless (no pun intended) devs of kickstarter frauds when Tim Schafer took a bunch of people's money for Broken Age (originally Double Fine Adventure) has so far delivered half a game, it's now over 2 years past the original estimated delivery date (I know Kickstarter projects generally deliver late, but 2+ years is pretty extreme) and the second half is still nowhere in sight.  Then, to add to that, his company pulled the **** they did with Spacebase DF9.

Edited November 12, 2014 by Keyrock

[Nonek]

Nice to see that Mr Wardell is finally getting an apology from the journalists who lied about the court case against him, which if I remember correctly was thrown out with prejudice by the court, and the accuser made to write an official apology to Mr Wardell and his family. Good to see these self righteous liars finally owning up to their slander, I hope Mr Wardell sues more who fraudulently accuse the gentleman of the same.

 

Makes one hopeful that the justice system is still fit for purpose, unlike game journalism.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

LOL.

 

Tim Schaefer collected 5 times the requested amount for his kickstarter and is still unable to finish the game. Ron Gilbert has slid into obscurity and was hardly relevant when I was 10, let alone now in 2014. Kickstarter frauds and hasbeens. As to the "many more", I would be suprised if they had made a game that topped 10,000 units.

 

Brad Wardell by no means admitted to sexual harassment, he was wrongly accused of it and had his name drug through the mud over a lawsuit by a former employee that was dismissed. This is a fact, deal with it.

 

As to making people worried about expressing their opinion, freedom of speech doesn't entitle anyone to freedom from critiscm. Not even communist black transwoman lesbians. They certainly shouldn't be harassed, but someone poking holes in their logic or calling them an **** isn't harassment.

 

But please, do go for the gold in mental gymnastics. I could use a good laugh.

 

I find those distracting from the real message as well, to be honest.If one wants to debate the theories fine, but it seems to me the wrong tact to take with a woman whose basic stance (in many people's minds - whether true or not) is that gamers are "anti-women" is to start throwing snarky commentary about how they look or dress, thus advocating that a woman's worth is in appearance rather than other qualities.YMMV.

Probably, but I like to think that most can see a joke(quality of taste may vary) and not take it literally.

 

Of course if an organization I worked for told me to cut it out I would stop, especially if I was referring to an event of theirs.

Edited November 12, 2014 by KaineParker

[Orogun01]

@namelesshero - This has nothing to do with GamerGate, but I think it's kind of funny that you mention Tim Schafer then accuse other nameless (no pun intended) devs of kickstarter frauds when Tim Schafer took a bunch of people's money for Broken Age (originally Double Fine Adventure) has so far delivered half a game, it's now over 2 years past the original estimated delivery date (I know Kickstarter projects generally deliver late, but 2+ years is pretty extreme) and the second half is still nowhere in sight.  Then, to add to that, his company pulled the **** they did with Spacebase DF9.

There is also the fact that Double Fine hosted a "Day of the Devs" party in SF with DJ Phil Fish, which they streamed online. Not really a good move when people are questioning your money management skills.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

@namelesshero - This has nothing to do with GamerGate, but I think it's kind of funny that you mention Tim Schafer then accuse other nameless (no pun intended) devs of kickstarter frauds when Tim Schafer took a bunch of people's money for Broken Age (originally Double Fine Adventure) has so far delivered half a game, it's now over 2 years past the original estimated delivery date (I know Kickstarter projects generally deliver late, but 2+ years is pretty extreme) and the second half is still nowhere in sight.  Then, to add to that, his company pulled the **** they did with Spacebase DF9.

 

There is also the fact that Double Fine hosted a "Day of the Devs" party in SF with DJ Phil Fish, which they streamed online. Not really a good move when people are questioning your money management skills.

I find the best thing to do when I have an overfunded project that is unfinished and I need more money to complete is to throw a party with spare funds instead. Cuz finishing a project is what the Patriarchy wants.

[namelesshero]

Again, he had publicly admitted to the harassment. The fact that the lawsuits were droped doesn't mean he can't be judged as a terrible human being and a pefect fit for g*mergate.

 

Also trying way too hard with the schafer dissing.

[Orogun01]

Again, he had publicly admitted to the harassment. The fact that the lawsuits were droped doesn't mean he can't be judged as a terrible human being and a pefect fit for g*mergate.

 

Also trying way too hard with the schafer dissing.

Trying way too hard to judge Bradwell when all you have is speculation. All that was made publicly available thanks to the gaming journalist was the side of the prosecution.

 

Also, the pro-corruption side needs better spell checking aside from their fact checking.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

Again, he had publicly admitted to the harassment. The fact that the lawsuits were droped doesn't mean he can't be judged as a terrible human being and a pefect fit for g*mergate.

 

Also trying way too hard with the schafer dissing.

 

Trying way too hard to judge Bradwell when all you have is speculation. All that was made publicly available thanks to the gaming journalist was the side of the prosecution.

Also, the pro-corruption side needs better spell checking aside from their fact checking.

The pro-corruption side don't believe in facts.

[Fighter]

So Brad Wardel's character is ok to discuss despite a very firm court verdict but Zoe Quinn's who in her own opinion knowingly broke consent (aka raped) with her partner. No, no, no, leave her personal life alone.

 

If Zoe was a man there would be an article by Patricia Hernandez just hours later titled "Male Game Dev Admits to Rape" on the front page of Kotaku. Everyone knows it.

[Meshugger]

Again, he had publicly admitted to the harassment. The fact that the lawsuits were droped doesn't mean he can't be judged as a terrible human being and a pefect fit for g*mergate.

 

Also trying way too hard with the schafer dissing.

 

0/10

 

Atleast try to be clever when ****posting.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

So Brad Wardel's character is ok to discuss despite a very firm court verdict but Zoe Quinn's who in her own opinion knowingly broke consent (aka raped) with her partner. No, no, no, leave her personal life alone.

 

If Zoe was a man there would be an article by Patricia Hernandez just hours later titled "Male Game Dev Admits to Rape" on the front page of Kotaku. Everyone knows it.

As much as I would rather not talk about Mojo Jojo, denying there is a double-standard when it comes to genders and races among the SJWs is delusional.

 

I like to consider myself equal opportunity. If someone is being sexist or racist to any gender or race, they are a bigot and an **** and I will call them on it. Giving hatred a pass because its directed to an acceptable target is wrong.

[Ganrich]

I can respect someone's work (past or present) and not agree with them politically. I like Ted Nugent's music, but find him quite insane at the best of times.

 

I expect many successful devs that are entrenched enough in the industry are probably ok (even happy about) a media they can manipulate with parties, $750k business investments, and swag. That neither makes it right or ethical. It also is problematic for indie devs that don't have the finances to play the game.

[Zoraptor]

Again, he had publicly admitted to the harassment. The fact that the lawsuits were droped doesn't mean he can't be judged as a terrible human being and a pefect fit for g*mergate.

 

 

r00fles!

 

People have let you off too lightly, not only did he not admit to harassment, his accuser had to formally apologise. If you're going to continue making accusations under circumstances where not only has he never been found 'guilty' and the complaint withdrawn but he also got a formal apology from his accuser then one could certainly say, "you're trying way too hard with the Wardell dissing."

Edited November 12, 2014 by Zoraptor

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I can respect someone's work (past or present) and not agree with them politically. I like Ted Nugent's music, but find him quite insane at the best of times.

I expect many successful devs that are entrenched enough in the industry are probably ok (even happy about) a media they can manipulate with parties, $750k business investments, and swag. That neither makes it right or ethical. It also is problematic for indie devs that don't have the finances to play the game.

You're the first person I've seen admit to liking Nugent's music. I don't care for his politics, but I found his music kinda boring before knowing what his beliefs were.

 

*shrug*

[Blarghagh]

Again, he had publicly admitted to the harassment. The fact that the lawsuits were droped doesn't mean he can't be judged as a terrible human being and a pefect fit for g*mergate.

 

Also trying way too hard with the schafer dissing.

 

The lawsuits weren't dropped. They were thrown out with extreme prejudice and the accuser was forced to publicly apologize because the case was a ridiculous sham to the point that even those who reported on it have now started to issue apologies for jumping the gun. I understand disagreeing with GamerGate, I can even understand hating it but that does not excuse flat out lying. The only reason he's a perfect fit for GamerGate is because he's one of the people who has been on the receiving end of gaming media's ridiculous double standards.

 

Even if that weren't true, it's not relevant. If Zoe's sex life or Samantha Allen's self-proclaimed misandry aren't relevant, then neither is this. It actually is about ethics in gaming journalism.

Edited November 12, 2014 by TrueNeutral