Drama in indy gaming and games journalism

[Shallow]

 

 

Washington Post gives their try to explain what GamerGate is and it don't draw very pretty picture

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-intersect/wp/2014/10/14/the-only-guide-to-gamergate-you-will-ever-need-to-read/

I'm speechless. Maybe Gamers didn't die, maybe journalism did.

 

I mean put the context aside. Pretend this isn't about GamerGate and SJWs, pretend it's an article about Crips vs. Bloods. I still don't think there's any reason for such undeniable bias from a JOURNALIST, flaunting an opinion in the most hyperbolized, factual fashion imagineable. This might be the single most bias and terribly unethical article to date....and what's scary is it's not even from a gaming journalist with an already terrible reputation, who we'd EXPECT this kind of **** from...

Regular US journalist aren't biased as hell already? People are just trying to fit this into the only mold they understand, democrat/republican.

[Valmy]

Has anyone noticed that few if any "legitimate" media sites mention the Gamers are Dead articles, which IMO are what turned this from a tiny internet spat into what it is now?

 

From what it looks like to me some people decided vigilante justice was a great way to police things and then it blew up in their faces because...um...that is what always happens with vigilantism?  So now they look bad and they are made about it.  Or something.  Lots of buzz words and nonsense about this.

 

What are these articles?

Edited October 15, 2014 by Valmy

[Volourn]

SJWs  and feminists prove, yet again, they are simply nazis. Equality is the way to go. Why don't they believe in equality?

[Longknife]

Random thought/hypothesis:

 

 

So gamasutra, RPS, Kotaku and various others all felt a backlash from the gamers are dead articles. I'm big on three little intuitive thoughts: that statistically there's one of every type, that there are people that think like you and that while many people are idiots there are also plenty that are wise.

 

 

How likely do you think it'd be that there's at least ONE supervisor for one of these journalism websites who's read an article that GamerGate itself hates, agrees the article was terrible and wanted to fire the person over it, but then came to the conclusion that, were they to do so, the very same group crying and calling gamers sexist would begin crying and calling that (already unpopular or questionable) website sexist for firing a pro-feminism journalist?

 

 

 

I'm just trying to make RATIONAL sense of why journalists would take things this far. The way things have played out, it feels as though journalists are acting like absolute children, refusing to accept reality and believing that if they shout the lie hard enough, it'll become true. I for one refuse to believe that a collective of decent size could be absolutely devoid of more clever and rational thought, so when I try to rationalize why none of the journalism websites have come forward and....yknow...APOLOGIZED to the people that put food on their table, the only thing that comes to mind is that they view it as doing so may clear their name with GamerGate, but effectively puts a target on their backs from SJWs and competing journalism websites, who would be quick to point out the corruption that surely exists amidst that website.

 

Still, it also feels like surely ONE of them would rationalize that there's potentially good money in taking chances with GamerGate, as the general consumer base would be supportive of a turncoat and be willing to hear what they'd have to say about corruption of the other sites while pardoning the alleged corruption of the turncoat in hopes it won't happen again.

 

I just find it so shocking that this many journalists keep repeating the same stuff and not a single one decides this isn't for them, nor does a single employer decide to fire a journalist or two as a scapegoat. And it's even getting WORSE because now we have the non-gaming journalists providing equally bias coverage....how the FLYING F*** did that happen???

[Malcador]

Bit much to claim people slinging crap online as 'vigilante justice'

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Bit much to claim people slinging crap online as 'vigilante justice'

Actually that seems fairly mild compared to some of the other stuff.

[Longknife]

Circumstantial evidence, yes.

 

Damned good and convincing circumstantial evidence? Also yes: http://i.lightimg.com/34d0b14a.jpg

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Circumstantial evidence, yes.

 

Damned good and convincing circumstantial evidence? Also yes: http://i.lightimg.com/34d0b14a.jpg

I think if it came out someone faked harassment, this already explosive enviorment would go nuclear. Not saying it happened in this case, but it would cause quoite the firestorm.

 

Also, her sockpuppet troll account was dumb. Erections from deathscenes? Murderboner? I'm starting to think SJWs are projecting a bit.

Edited October 15, 2014 by KaineParker

[Longknife]

 

Circumstantial evidence, yes.

Damned good and convincing circumstantial evidence? Also yes: http://i.lightimg.com/34d0b14a.jpg

I think if it came out someone faked harassment, this already explosive enviorment would go nuclear. Not saying it happened in this case, but it would cause quoite the firestorm.

Also, her sockpuppet troll account was dumb. Erections from deathscenes? Murderboner? I'm starting to think SJWs are projecting a bit.

I personally would actually be willing to bet money it was faked. An idiom (a person's habits when speaking) is deceptively telling and in some way difficult to imitate as it can sometimes involve picking up on rather subtle speech patterns. You have one, I have one, everyone has one. She's shown a willingness to create multiple accounts (yes, there is some level of effort and dedication required here), the woman herself is very obscure (NEVER heard of her) and she supposedly has another game coming out so the press is good for her, and I sincerely doubt a troll would have the foresight to recognize her idiom and imitate it while making the death threat.

 

 

I said before, I believe in all kinds of people. For example I don't think Anita would make bomb threats to herself at the big events she's attended as - were she caught - she's looking at SERIOUS legal ramifications, seeing as they dispatched actual bomb squads to those events. This on the other hand...? This is this woman's first spot in the limelight, I highly doubt police are going to conduct a serious investigation into a threat made on the Internet (especially one where the guy making the threat shows ignorance in that he doesn't know if she has kids) and catch a staged threat plot, and again the circumstantial evidence here is HIGHLY suspicious. Circumstantial evidence won't hold ground in a court of law or the like because it fails to connect the dots, but I also think as rational and cognitive human beings, if you can hit someone with circumstantial evidence not once, not twice, but multiple times, then yes it's time to start seriously considering that person suspicious. As such, personally my intuition sees that and calls foul.

 

 

 

 

 

 

But I digress. It's still only circumstantial evidence that can't be proven (at least not without police charging her with filing a fake report, which as stated is unlikely) so it's kinda pointless to discuss.

 

Likewise while I feel the character of such people is relevant in highlighting hypocrisy and a general culture from the two sides (btw, just to get it all out there before moving on, here's another alleged foul-up that allegedly got deleted very quickly, according to the kotakuinaction reddit board: https://mobile.twitter.com/The_Camera_Girl/status/522138531108749312/photo/1 ), I think it's important to differentiate between relevance to a culture and "character assassination." I think I've commented enough about her at this point so there's no reason to discuss it further.

 

 

EDIT: oh and just if it wasn't clear, in the pic linked, supposedly wu is claiming her twitter got hacked briefly so someone could make that crappy comment, then returned her account to her.

Edited October 15, 2014 by Longknife

[Lexx]

 

That's quite a trainwreck.

 

Also it feels like one of these chat flamewars we had 15 years ago. Just that this thing is kind of escalating more and more into the public... kinda funny of some sort.

 

 

Also that guy is in a wheelchair and his nickname is hotwheels? That's pretty of awesome, imo.

Edited October 15, 2014 by Lexx

[Longknife]

Also that guy is in a wheelchair and his nickname is hotwheels? That's pretty of awesome, imo.

 

We disabled take pride in having the best nicknames hands down. In high school I was often known as Stubby or Peggy for having one leg, and on rare occasion when someone didn't mind the syllables, Sir Limpsalot.

[kirottu]

I just find it so shocking that this many journalists keep repeating the same stuff and not a single one decides this isn't for them, nor does a single employer decide to fire a journalist or two as a scapegoat. And it's even getting WORSE because now we have the non-gaming journalists providing equally bias coverage....how the FLYING F*** did that happen???

 

I think some of it just comes down to reporting what other journalist already have reported. No research required, less work and same pay.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

Also that guy is in a wheelchair and his nickname is hotwheels? That's pretty of awesome, imo.

We disabled take pride in having the best nicknames hands down. In high school I was often known as Stubby or Peggy for having one leg, and on rare occasion when someone didn't mind the syllables, Sir Limpsalot.

Damn you disabled bastards taking all the good names from women!

[Osvir]

Has any of those social commentary websites ever mentioned the 10.000+ nude patches, mods or hacks being done ? When you look at most of these nude and sexy pixel "art" authors they are the same people who rant about sexism in games or tolerance in general. I followed just one of those crazies jumping on gamergate telling how we all are nuts and sexists and on his own deviant page he claims to be a little cute perv only uploading "sex" pixel art... Heh... whatever!

 

I think most of these very misguided people have one thing in common. They are obsessed with sex in one way or the other or a uber romancers they say but the only thing they do in terms or "creativity" is doing nude and sexy skins for games like the sims, dragon age whatever. There is so much wrong with their own self reflection i dont know where to start!

 

I never did any nude skin myself (or more i never uploaded any....hehe) because i never bothered to do. But when you point out the thousands of people loving their sexy nude bs. telling them that would be very sexist in their own definition they just say... freedom of creativity! hell yeah where´s my happy pill of twisted reason... :D

 

And now that i realize this and the madness people write down when a designer paints a clothing for a female warrior that looks sexy he is the sexist... not bothering to see WHO is realy the one whos doing all that fake plastic nude stuff. I tell yal!

There is a difference in being sexual and sexist. We are kind of biologically designed to be sexual, both men and women. If someone is creative and creates nude stuff to satisfy their own lust or others... is that an expression of sexism or an expression of sexuality?

 

How I view it:

"This stuff I am making/watching is turning me on!" <- Sexual Expression

"Women should do their outmost to turn me on!" <- Sexist Expression

 

However, one has to consider there are Extremist Feminists too, and their view-points align somewhere with this:

"If you are born a man, then you are born a sexist" <- If you were to express sexuality, it'd be interpreted as sexist.

 

Heck, some Extremist Feminists would want Men eradicated from the world. "Men are the root of all evil" type of thing. In fact, there is even a vision of the future where men are eradicated. There are some scientists working out the quirks of avoiding men's involvement in conciving children. In the far future, women who want the death of all men might get their own planet where they can breed themselves without the involvement of men.

 

But don't get me wrong, I root for the Moderate Feminists who actually have a sound ideology of very deserving equality:

"Women are treated bad in general, they earn less than men, and get worse treatment than men. They have to work harder than men to reach the same levels as men in any industry. This is not very equal. Men should take a couple of steps down, and women should take a couple of steps up. This would cause equality"

 

Extremism is the bane of any group, unfortunately. The black sheep of any family that gets way too much attention due to their radical expressions. The non-representable representing a sound morality (Equality).

 

Where's the "Extremely Moderate Feminists" when we need them? (EMF) Or the "Radically Equal Warriors"? (REW)

[Hiro Protagonist]

I couldn't even get five minutes in and Brianna Wu in that interview said she had to take a twitter break as it all got too much for her and she took 24hrs off from it. I'm just shaking my head thinking... well I won't say.

 

Anyway, how did Brianna Wu become the latest topic of discussion in this whole affair? How did she become the current news story? She says she received death threats but what preceded this? I mean there are hundreds if not thousands of females working in this industry. What happened for her to be singled out from the hundreds if not thousands of women in the industry.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I couldn't even get five minutes in and Brianna Wu in that interview said she had to take a twitter break as it all got too much for her and she took 24hrs off from it. I'm just shaking my head thinking... well I won't say.

 

Anyway, how did Brianna Wu become the latest topic of discussion in this whole affair? How did she become the current news story? She says she received death threats but what preceded this? I mean there are hundreds if not thousands of females working in this industry. What happened for her to be singled out from the hundreds if not thousands of women in the industry.

She posted her threats a lot. Other than that, she hasn't done anything of note. If one were cynical, you could make a supposition that Wu is milking the actions of a troll to boost her own fame.

 

And if you didn't last more than 5 minutes, you should skip to the end. Totally worth it.

Edited October 15, 2014 by KaineParker

[Hiro Protagonist]

Thanks KP but I'm really after what preceded the threats. As far as I know, Internet users don't decide to randomly pick a female out of thin air from the thousands of females in the gaming industry and then go after them, send threatening messages or anything like that. Yeah, you could be right. She could have been trolled. Then made a big song and dance about it and was trolled and threatened even more. Who knows. It's what preceded it that I'm wondering about. There's usually something that sparks this and I'd be interested to know what the spark was that snowballed this.

 

And I decided to watch it and what a chore listening through her, interrupting other people while they spoke. And she came across as very litigious, almost 'I'm gonna sue you' type of hysteria with the admin of 8chan. The 'you don't know the law, I know the law from college. Better be careful and watch yourself' attitude. Better get yourself a lawyer. The admin probably knows his stuff and presumably has a lawyer to go over this with his website.

[Shallow]

Loved how she kept interrupting and insulting everyone, yet when hotwheels says 8chan isn't about her the journalist guy feels the need to apologize to her. Overall an incredibly biased interview.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

^Well than Longknife posted this: http://i.lightimg.com/34d0b14a.jpg

 

Possible conspiracy theory aside, it shows that Wu did create sockpuppet to troll GamerGate. She says she posted memes or something as well, but I haven't seen any of those. Apparently she mocked a woman with asbergers(she claims her account was briefly hacked). Other than that, she has been unknown in both the gg stuff.

 

The most likely scenario is that a troll saw her tweets and decided to troll her. Sucks about the threats, but nothing you can do to stop that without severe crackdowns on freedom. Trolls gonna troll after all.

[TrashMan]

But don't get me wrong, I root for the Moderate Feminists who actually have a sound ideology of very deserving equality:

"Women are treated bad in general, they earn less than men, and get worse treatment than men. They have to work harder than men to reach the same levels as men in any industry. This is not very equal. Men should take a couple of steps down, and women should take a couple of steps up. This would cause equality"

 

Extremism is the bane of any group, unfortunately. The black sheep of any family that gets way too much attention due to their radical expressions. The non-representable representing a sound morality (Equality).

 

Where's the "Extremely Moderate Feminists" when we need them? (EMF) Or the "Radically Equal Warriors"? (REW)

 

 

Problem is, even that is overblown.

Women are treated bad? Really? How and when? By whom?

They earn less? Sez who? The law to equalize earnings has been in effect for decades.

Worse treatment? Bah.

 

The way I see it, most of it is cherry picking scenarios and overblowing things out of proportion.

So much talk, so little actual evidence.

Edited October 15, 2014 by TrashMan

[Hiro Protagonist]

Re: Women paid less than men. Reminds me of this:

 

[Hiro Protagonist]

^Well than Longknife posted this: http://i.lightimg.com/34d0b14a.jpg

 

Possible conspiracy theory aside, it shows that Wu did create sockpuppet to troll GamerGate. She says she posted memes or something as well, but I haven't seen any of those. Apparently she mocked a woman with asbergers(she claims her account was briefly hacked). Other than that, she has been unknown in both the gg stuff.

 

The most likely scenario is that a troll saw her tweets and decided to troll her. Sucks about the threats, but nothing you can do to stop that without severe crackdowns on freedom. Trolls gonna troll after all.

 

Interesting. So it's possible that she trolled gamergate and she was then trolled herself and it spiralled out of control. Whether it's true or not, it's a good idea not to poke a hornet's nest. I was hoping the guy during the interview was going to ask Brianna what prompted the death threats, how did this all start. Not what happened afterwards. That would have been one of my first questions to get to the bottom of this.

[Longknife]

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sd042v

 

 

THANK you~

 

Come to think of it, I have a friend who's a cop, though he moved away recently. If I catch him on the phone I may ask him what cops advise as standard protocol for threats. Even so it all rings true; anyone with decent experience on the interbutts knows to starve trolls and I do know for example that suicides spike when a suicide is reported in the news due to the same copycat effect. Let's be real here: real threats or no. I highly doubt these people are exactly scared of them and mind those threats, as those threats are giving them attention and assisting their careers. "Any publicity is good publicity." I for one, for example, had no clue who Jennifer Lawrence was until her nudes got hacked and leaked.

[Ineth]

I couldn't even get five minutes in and Brianna Wu in that interview said she had to take a twitter break as it all got too much for her and she took 24hrs off from it. I'm just shaking my head thinking... well I won't say.

 

Anyway, how did Brianna Wu become the latest topic of discussion in this whole affair? How did she become the current news story? She says she received death threats but what preceded this? I mean there are hundreds if not thousands of females working in this industry. What happened for her to be singled out from the hundreds if not thousands of women in the industry.

 

From what I've caught, the backstory was:

• Wu created a meme based on a picture of a screaming autistic kid, with snarky punchlines insinuating that gamers are misogynists, crybabies, etc. and she and her twitter friends created lots of entries for that meme.

   

• A female gg supporter who suffers from aspergers took offense, and Wu responded by calling her "you gross ****ing aspie", but later deleted that tweet and claimed her account had been hacked.

   

• 8chan created a parody meme based on Wu's meme, with snarky punchlines targeted at Wu (or people on her side in general).

   

• Wu went to 8chan, was shocked at the sheer amount of pics from that parody meme that had been posted in that thread, and called it harassment (and complained on twitter that she was being harassed).

   

• At some point, her home address was anonymously posted on 8chan (i.e. she was doxxed). Based on a screenshot from that thread, it looks like the other 8chan users did not approve of that doxxing though, with some of them condemning it, others posting comments like "Nice try Brianna" suggesting that they believed it to be a false flag.

   

• A short while later, a throw-away twitter account called "Death to Brianna" tweeted extremely nasty death threats at her. Although that account never mentioned gg or anything gaming related, the time when it happened is circumstantial evidence that is was someone related to the gg/8chan drama.

I might have gotten something wrong of course, since I was not in there first hand.

[Elerond]

Re: Women paid less than men. Reminds me of this:

 

 

It is not something that companies do intentionally out of malice, but that happens because of much more obscure factors, which is why fixing it is difficult and time consuming process. Especially when many of those factors originate from things in general social consensus and what kind views people have grown with.

 

For example companies often think that they treat men and women equally but their own statistics often show that women with same qualifications than men get offered smaller starting salary, which many women take as face value as they in anonymous inquiries about subject often value their time less than men, and often you can also find that men get more often and bigger raises than women, but it is also shown that women typically ask less and smaller raises than men. Where we come back to that point where I said that difference in salary isn't necessary because of malice/sexism/etc. from company but because of our societies views about subject and how we raise and educate our children and how our culture influences (like people not even believing in the subject or making light about subject) them. And it also should be remembered that people work 40-60 years of their life so salary statistics are still influenced by politics of 1940s and 1950s, which make subject even more complicate to analyse and to find solution (which all the members of society don't even want to do in the first place).