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Gorth

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Gamergate benefits in that it was founded on an actual legitimate case of violating journalistic ethics, Mr Grayson sleeping with a developer and neither recusing himself, informing his editor or the audience of this conduct that brings his industry and publication into disrepute. However much this conflict of interest is denied, swept aside or the goalposts shifted this remains a constant. One cannot say that they have ethics or integrity when they are flagrantly abused in such a manner, and to deny this or ask that ethics and integrity not apply to Kotaku or any other publication renders them simply unfit for purpose.

 

Though moderate and neutral, this is why I err on Gamergates and (more importantly of course) the consumers side.

 

Although I have seen little to none evidence that Grayson gave any coverage for developer in question after their possible sexual relationship, so looking from that point of view there was really no need him to recuse himself or disclose such relationship.

 

But any way in this point of time I feel that that particular case is worst hindrance that GamerGate has, because of way people decided to attack developer in question first and only afterwards start to rise questions about journalist in the question. It becomes in my opinion very problematic thing especially because those attacks against said developer were the tinder for article series in multiple publications that are know as "Gamers are Dead" articles which GamerGate uses to fuel their movement. Which in my opinion creates problematic basis for the movement and gives door for the people to criticize the movement and accuses them for things like women hating and sexism. And movement also isn't helped by fact that one of it loudest voices comes from journalist that writes in publication that has at least previously shown heavy anti-gamer mentality and holds opinions against woman rights movements. And said journalist has written several articles that are seen attacks against sexual minorities.

 

In my opinion GamerGate need to do better PR (produce articles and videos that can't perceived as attacks or angry rants or conspiracy theories. Produce articles and videos that condemn attacks and don't try to defend them by saying that there are attacks in both sides [because GamerGate is social and political movement and there is no oppose side for it, only people that criticize it for one reason or another, but they don't form opposite movement that tries to compete with it] ), find better mouth pieces for their movement and I would also say they should focus their message better (meaning to specify what they mean with corruption in (gaming) journalism and start to give propositions of possible solutions). Because in current form it seems to only accomplish to mud public opinions about gamers and gaming at general. 

Edited by Elerond
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Mr Grayson did not have to write any article concerning his adultery with Ms Whats her name, the mere fact that he did not disclose his relationship in any shape or form, already taints his publication, his commitment to informing the public and his impartiality. Whether he wrote anything or not is not the point, he behaved in a manner that broke the ethical code, and told nobody. He brought his publication and profession into disrepute.

 

It is blatant impropriety and a conflict of interest, between his subject and his audience. Any editor worth his salt should have issued a public apology, and then fired the gentleman.

Quite an experience to live in misery isn't it? That's what it is to be married with children.

I've seen things you people can't even imagine. Pearly Kings glittering on the Elephant and Castle, Morris Men dancing 'til the last light of midsummer. I watched Druid fires burning in the ruins of Stonehenge, and Yorkshiremen gurning for prizes. All these things will be lost in time, like alopecia on a skinhead. Time for tiffin.

 

Tea for the teapot!

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Mr Grayson did not have to write any article concerning his adultery with Ms Whats her name, the mere fact that he did not disclose his relationship in any shape or form, already taints his publication, his commitment to informing the public and his impartiality. Whether he wrote anything or not is not the point, he behaved in a manner that broke the ethical code, and told nobody. He brought his publication and profession into disrepute.

 

It is blatant impropriety and a conflict of interest, between his subject and his audience. Any editor worth his salt should have issued a public apology, and then fired the gentleman.

I suppose one could argue that even if Mr. Grayson did not favorably write about his paramour's game, he could be influencing how others at the publication he writes for review the game in question. Could be considered a bit of a stretch, but it isn't something that is particularly hard to address.

 

This all goes back to that stuff TN posted a while back, if gaming journalists adopted a standard of ethics and adhered to them they've taken away the raison d'être GamerGate has for existing. Refusal to do so is just going to cause GG to grow and grow, as it looks increasingly like they don't want to address any concerns of corruption and have descended into mud-flinging instead.

"Akiva Goldsman and Alex Kurtzman run the 21st century version of MK ULTRA." - majestic

"you're a damned filthy lying robot and you deserve to die and burn in hell." - Bartimaeus

"Without individual thinking you can't notice the plot holes." - InsaneCommander

"Just feed off the suffering of gamers." - Malcador

"You are calling my taste crap." -Hurlshort

"thankfully it seems like the creators like Hungary less this time around." - Sarex

"Don't forget the wakame, dumbass" -Keyrock

"Are you trolling or just being inadvertently nonsensical?' -Pidesco

"we have already been forced to admit you are at least human" - uuuhhii

"I refuse to buy from non-woke businesses" - HoonDing

"feral camels are now considered a pest" - Gorth

"Melkathi is known to be an overly critical grumpy person" - Melkathi

"Oddly enough Sanderson was a lot more direct despite being a Mormon" - Zoraptor

"I found it greatly disturbing to scroll through my cartoon's halfing selection of genitalias." - Wormerine

"Am I phrasing in the most negative light for them? Yes, but it's not untrue." - ShadySands

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Mr Grayson didn't have to influence anybody, he is a game journalist who slept with a developer (his subject,) this is the core of the matter. He needs do nothing else to bring his publication and profession into disrepute. If he had informed his editor and recused himself from any further professional dealings with his sexual partner, that would be professional and the least he is obliged to do, he did not and therefore his actions were unethical.

 

If Kotaku implemented an ethical code, then Mr Grayson and the other lady (Ms Hernandez?) would have to be fired or suffer a draconian punishment, few people are willing to admit guilt or raise their hands in the professional world. One of the reason for my continued respect for Mr Erik Kain, who has retracted and issued apologies before.

Quite an experience to live in misery isn't it? That's what it is to be married with children.

I've seen things you people can't even imagine. Pearly Kings glittering on the Elephant and Castle, Morris Men dancing 'til the last light of midsummer. I watched Druid fires burning in the ruins of Stonehenge, and Yorkshiremen gurning for prizes. All these things will be lost in time, like alopecia on a skinhead. Time for tiffin.

 

Tea for the teapot!

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Mr Grayson didn't have to influence anybody, he is a game journalist who slept with a developer (his subject,) this is the core of the matter. He needs do nothing else to bring his publication and profession into disrepute. If he had informed his editor and recused himself from any further professional dealings with his sexual partner, that would be professional and the least he is obliged to do, he did not and therefore his actions were unethical.

 

If Kotaku implemented an ethical code, then Mr Grayson and the other lady (Ms Hernandez?) would have to be fired or suffer a draconian punishment, few people are willing to admit guilt or raise their hands in the professional world. One of the reason for my continued respect for Mr Erik Kain, who has retracted and issued apologies before.

I have to agree with all of this.

 

I wonder what any ethics policy should look like? IMO it should at least include disclaimers about ties to the subject matter. Perhaps separating opinion pieces and actual news would be good as well.

"Akiva Goldsman and Alex Kurtzman run the 21st century version of MK ULTRA." - majestic

"you're a damned filthy lying robot and you deserve to die and burn in hell." - Bartimaeus

"Without individual thinking you can't notice the plot holes." - InsaneCommander

"Just feed off the suffering of gamers." - Malcador

"You are calling my taste crap." -Hurlshort

"thankfully it seems like the creators like Hungary less this time around." - Sarex

"Don't forget the wakame, dumbass" -Keyrock

"Are you trolling or just being inadvertently nonsensical?' -Pidesco

"we have already been forced to admit you are at least human" - uuuhhii

"I refuse to buy from non-woke businesses" - HoonDing

"feral camels are now considered a pest" - Gorth

"Melkathi is known to be an overly critical grumpy person" - Melkathi

"Oddly enough Sanderson was a lot more direct despite being a Mormon" - Zoraptor

"I found it greatly disturbing to scroll through my cartoon's halfing selection of genitalias." - Wormerine

"Am I phrasing in the most negative light for them? Yes, but it's not untrue." - ShadySands

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Mr Grayson did not have to write any article concerning his adultery with Ms Whats her name, the mere fact that he did not disclose his relationship in any shape or form, already taints his publication, his commitment to informing the public and his impartiality. Whether he wrote anything or not is not the point, he behaved in a manner that broke the ethical code, and told nobody. He brought his publication and profession into disrepute.

 

It is blatant impropriety and a conflict of interest, between his subject and his audience. Any editor worth his salt should have issued a public apology, and then fired the gentleman.

I suppose one could argue that even if Mr. Grayson did not favorably write about his paramour's game, he could be influencing how others at the publication he writes for review the game in question. Could be considered a bit of a stretch, but it isn't something that is particularly hard to address.

 

This all goes back to that stuff TN posted a while back, if gaming journalists adopted a standard of ethics and adhered to them they've taken away the raison d'être GamerGate has for existing. Refusal to do so is just going to cause GG to grow and grow, as it looks increasingly like they don't want to address any concerns of corruption and have descended into mud-flinging instead.

 

No, he didn't review her game, that's the story they're sticking with. But Depression Quest and Rebel Jam were publicized by Grayson.

 

I wish they would talk about the IGF more, that was truly a disgusting thing to learn.

I'd say the answer to that question is kind of like the answer to "who's the sucker in this poker game?"*

 

*If you can't tell, it's you. ;)

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Basic ethics and integrity are covered in a journalism degree, if in doubt hire a neutral third party, independent from the gaming industry of course such as Mr Greg Lisby. His video on acceptable ethical and professional behaviour is probably already uploaded on this thread somewhere.

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Quite an experience to live in misery isn't it? That's what it is to be married with children.

I've seen things you people can't even imagine. Pearly Kings glittering on the Elephant and Castle, Morris Men dancing 'til the last light of midsummer. I watched Druid fires burning in the ruins of Stonehenge, and Yorkshiremen gurning for prizes. All these things will be lost in time, like alopecia on a skinhead. Time for tiffin.

 

Tea for the teapot!

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Sounds like some union nonsense to me.

 

I don't think you need a journalism degree to write, about anything, and do it with integrity. I mean that requirement to me  would have to be some pretty advanced Woodward and Bernstein stuff. In fact you would probably be better off with a thrid party without a journalism degree.

 

Journalist are a dying breed and becomming virtually indistinguishable from bloggers anyway. Ask at any journalist campus and that's what they will tell you. 

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Na na  na na  na na  ...

greg358 from Darksouls 3 PVP is a CHEATER.

That is all.

 

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Raises a valid point, that as a journalistic entity Kotaku is factually unfit for purpose, as bloggers they're the same as many others. Thus they could hide behind a rebranding and not have to worry about professional conduct, or service to the public.

Quite an experience to live in misery isn't it? That's what it is to be married with children.

I've seen things you people can't even imagine. Pearly Kings glittering on the Elephant and Castle, Morris Men dancing 'til the last light of midsummer. I watched Druid fires burning in the ruins of Stonehenge, and Yorkshiremen gurning for prizes. All these things will be lost in time, like alopecia on a skinhead. Time for tiffin.

 

Tea for the teapot!

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I wish they would talk about the IGF more, that was truly a disgusting thing to learn.

 

 

This hits close to the heart of the matter. I do community management for a small developer part-time, so I talk to indie devs all the time. A lot of them are pissed, because when it comes to exposure making a great game doesn't seem to matter anymore. If you want to get exposure, which is pretty much everything for a game developer unless you're so good or unique that word of mouth builds by itself, you rely on contests and journalists. Now it turns out the contests are rigged and the journalists favour the lame indie clique that they're overly chummy with even though those people barely make games.

 

These devs aren't saying anything because they rely on these websites and they don't want to jump into the minefield or get blacklisted, but they're invested in making sure these guys go down.

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That's another thing.

 

Everyone is acting like GamerGate is an organization with a staff list. 

 

It's not, it's just a few sexually frustrated guys that managed to get a completely oblivious following.

 

Who are those few people? And how did they manage to dupe everyone?

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"Some men see things as they are and say why?"
"I dream things that never were and say why not?"
- George Bernard Shaw

"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."
- Friedrich Nietzsche

 

"The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."

- Some guy 

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Your observation or point  wasn't relevant back then and its still not relevant

 

 

I would still argue that it's very much relevant, because as long as a name is not put on the GamerGate movement, opposing sides are free to make whatever accusations they please with little need to cite sources. It can continue to be "someone said" rather than "_____ said."

 

 

You see, if the conversation went "TotalBiscuit said he hopes all women die in a fire and considers them mentally and physically inferior" and TotalBiscuit was STILL championed by the movement despite those claims....? Then yes, you've got a problem with a lot of people either supporting sexism or turning a blind eye.

  But when you say "someone who supports Gamergate said he hopes all women die," then I'm going to promptly laugh at you and tell you to GTFO.  This is the internet, I don't care if Pepperoni_Nipples said something outrageous on random video or forum #27. Pepperoni_Nipples is probably a troll who's drunk on the anonymity and absurdness of the internet and thought it'd be funny to say something absurd. But beyond words that carry no weight, he won't do anything else.

 

 

So yes, the fact that SJWs continue to cite comments by "someone" as the problem, I will continue to take them as seriously as I take this hatemail letter I got from beating someone in a Dark Souls II fight where he said he was gonna find out where I live and take a dump on my lawn.

 

 

 

Disclaimer: Pepperoni_Nipples is infact a fine and entertaining youtube citizen who wouldn't say such things. I had the pleasure of sharing a video view with him and commenting in response to a humorous comment he made here. His name was used purely for demonstration purposes.

"The Courier was the worst of all of them. The worst by far. When he died the first time, he must have met the devil, and then killed him."

 

 

Is your mom hot? It may explain why guys were following her ?

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Pepperoni_Nipples is a pillar of the community.

 

More seriously, I haven't taken any threats hurled towards me seriously. Some dude telling me he is going to rape me in my pee hole is just a **** I will ignore.

Edited by KaineParker

"Akiva Goldsman and Alex Kurtzman run the 21st century version of MK ULTRA." - majestic

"you're a damned filthy lying robot and you deserve to die and burn in hell." - Bartimaeus

"Without individual thinking you can't notice the plot holes." - InsaneCommander

"Just feed off the suffering of gamers." - Malcador

"You are calling my taste crap." -Hurlshort

"thankfully it seems like the creators like Hungary less this time around." - Sarex

"Don't forget the wakame, dumbass" -Keyrock

"Are you trolling or just being inadvertently nonsensical?' -Pidesco

"we have already been forced to admit you are at least human" - uuuhhii

"I refuse to buy from non-woke businesses" - HoonDing

"feral camels are now considered a pest" - Gorth

"Melkathi is known to be an overly critical grumpy person" - Melkathi

"Oddly enough Sanderson was a lot more direct despite being a Mormon" - Zoraptor

"I found it greatly disturbing to scroll through my cartoon's halfing selection of genitalias." - Wormerine

"Am I phrasing in the most negative light for them? Yes, but it's not untrue." - ShadySands

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Morning update from twitter

 

Here article from Social Researcher who analyses in the article why "#Gamergate, as we know it now, is a hate group."

http://jezebel.com/gamergate-trolls-arent-ethics-crusaders-theyre-a-hate-1644984010

 

That is as much as objective as to asking Von Däniken why the US government is hiding UFOs. 

 

Is it to much to ask for a sociology scholar/professor, with no previous affiliation with feminism, to conduct some research?

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"Some men see things as they are and say why?"
"I dream things that never were and say why not?"
- George Bernard Shaw

"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."
- Friedrich Nietzsche

 

"The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."

- Some guy 

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Strangely enough, there's an article that echoes my thoughts: http://www.nichegamer.net/2014/10/on-gamers-culture-and-gamergate/

 

 

From the Gamer point of view: A group is coming in and trying to invalidate their entire culture, by corrupting their database of postmodern simulacra, and all the millions of small narratives intertwined in that database, and the nuanced meanings they are able to “read up” at the surface layer, and replace it with the modern monolithic grand narrative of Social Justice. This literally would be a complete destruction of self for the Gamers, who have contextually moved passed modern concepts of grand narrative, and embraced postmodern culture.

 

From the point of view of the self-proclaimed progressives: They can only recognize the surface layer of Gamer Culture, and see nothing but frivolous pop culture detritus, with no inherent meaning other than that which they derive from their grand narrative of Social Justice. Where the Gamers (or Otaku) see, even if only subconsciously, a rich set of contextual clues and meanings to the Moe elements of a character, the supposed progressives see only an unrealistic and sexist depiction of a woman. Their modern view, precludes them from comprehending, or even recognizing, the dual-layer nature of the postmodern Gamer database culture, thus they predictably seek to wipe away the frivolous and offensive garbage, and plant their tree of grand narrative.

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"Some men see things as they are and say why?"
"I dream things that never were and say why not?"
- George Bernard Shaw

"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."
- Friedrich Nietzsche

 

"The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."

- Some guy 

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Morning update from twitter

 

Here article from Social Researcher who analyses in the article why "#Gamergate, as we know it now, is a hate group."

http://jezebel.com/gamergate-trolls-arent-ethics-crusaders-theyre-a-hate-1644984010

 

That is as much as objective as to asking Von Däniken why the US government is hiding UFOs. 

 

Is it to much to ask for a sociology scholar/professor, with no previous affiliation with feminism, to conduct some research?

 

 

But do we now dismiss any opinions from feminists as "automatically biased " ?

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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Morning update from twitter

 

Here article from Social Researcher who analyses in the article why "#Gamergate, as we know it now, is a hate group."

http://jezebel.com/gamergate-trolls-arent-ethics-crusaders-theyre-a-hate-1644984010

 

That is as much as objective as to asking Von Däniken why the US government is hiding UFOs. 

 

Is it to much to ask for a sociology scholar/professor, with no previous affiliation with feminism, to conduct some research?

 

 

But do we now dismiss any opinions from feminists as "automatically biased " ?

 

 

 

....It's from the same media circle that owns Kotaku.

"The Courier was the worst of all of them. The worst by far. When he died the first time, he must have met the devil, and then killed him."

 

 

Is your mom hot? It may explain why guys were following her ?

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Strangely enough, there's an article that echoes my thoughts: http://www.nichegamer.net/2014/10/on-gamers-culture-and-gamergate/

 

 

 

 

 As Hiroki argues, Otaku Culture finds meanings not from the grand narratives of modernity, but from cultural mythologies created on the fly though the combination and recontextualisation of ‘database objects’ taken from consumed narratives, and repurposed as a substitute for grand narrative. In this way, through reducing the consumed narrative to a system of objects, and recombining and reusing the objects, they become a simulacra stripped of their intended meaning, and assigned new meaning by the culture. Through successive iterations these create deep cultural meanings, inaccessible to those attempting to “read up” the surface layer, without understanding the deeper cultural database on which the simulacra are based. Practical examples of this behavior are readily available at sites such as Know Your Meme.

 

What is important to understand about this process, is that the narrative is not being consumed as a grand narrative, but rather as a source of new objects to be appropriated and employed in the creation of new simulacra. Thus you have consumption as a way to acquire new narrative elements, rather than as a way to consume and assimilate entire narratives. Those elements are then incorporated into the underlying database, which is then expressed on the surface layer in different ways depending on the context. This underlying database, is what comprises the culture, and it is a postmodern culture, devoid of grand narratives like Ideology or Religion, which is exactly how Gamers are able to interact as a culture, despite completely different views on topics like this.

 

Put more plainly, Gamer Culture is not a culture in the modern sense, of a set of shared ideologies, beliefs and morals, but in the postmodern sense of a shared reality of contextual elements, and language for expressing and reusing those elements in meaningful and transformative ways, that speak to the cultural gestalt of the participants.

 

Translation to English from Liberal Arts Major: "but memes are ART, don't you see?".

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"Lulz is not the highest aspiration of art and mankind, no matter what the Encyclopedia Dramatica says."

 

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Morning update from twitter

 

Here article from Social Researcher who analyses in the article why "#Gamergate, as we know it now, is a hate group."

http://jezebel.com/gamergate-trolls-arent-ethics-crusaders-theyre-a-hate-1644984010

That is as much as objective as to asking Von Däniken why the US government is hiding UFOs.

 

Is it to much to ask for a sociology scholar/professor, with no previous affiliation with feminism, to conduct some research?

But do we now dismiss any opinions from feminists as "automatically biased " ?

 

....It's from the same media circle that owns Kotaku.

Ah yes, Gawker. I hear Quentin Tarantino has some nice things to say about them.

"Akiva Goldsman and Alex Kurtzman run the 21st century version of MK ULTRA." - majestic

"you're a damned filthy lying robot and you deserve to die and burn in hell." - Bartimaeus

"Without individual thinking you can't notice the plot holes." - InsaneCommander

"Just feed off the suffering of gamers." - Malcador

"You are calling my taste crap." -Hurlshort

"thankfully it seems like the creators like Hungary less this time around." - Sarex

"Don't forget the wakame, dumbass" -Keyrock

"Are you trolling or just being inadvertently nonsensical?' -Pidesco

"we have already been forced to admit you are at least human" - uuuhhii

"I refuse to buy from non-woke businesses" - HoonDing

"feral camels are now considered a pest" - Gorth

"Melkathi is known to be an overly critical grumpy person" - Melkathi

"Oddly enough Sanderson was a lot more direct despite being a Mormon" - Zoraptor

"I found it greatly disturbing to scroll through my cartoon's halfing selection of genitalias." - Wormerine

"Am I phrasing in the most negative light for them? Yes, but it's not untrue." - ShadySands

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Morning update from twitter

 

Here article from Social Researcher who analyses in the article why "#Gamergate, as we know it now, is a hate group."

http://jezebel.com/gamergate-trolls-arent-ethics-crusaders-theyre-a-hate-1644984010

 

That is as much as objective as to asking Von Däniken why the US government is hiding UFOs. 

 

Is it to much to ask for a sociology scholar/professor, with no previous affiliation with feminism, to conduct some research?

 

 

But do we now dismiss any opinions from feminists as "automatically biased " ?

 

 

Not feminism per see, but with in any form research, it has to be done by an independent body. Would you have preferred if Einstein's theory of General Relativity was reviewed by his supporters?

"Some men see things as they are and say why?"
"I dream things that never were and say why not?"
- George Bernard Shaw

"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."
- Friedrich Nietzsche

 

"The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."

- Some guy 

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"sexually frustrated guys"

 

I ssriously doubt a celebrity like Baldwin is 'sexually frustrated'. L0LZ

 

 

 

"But do we now dismiss any opinions from feminists as "automatically biased " ?"

 

Absolutely. Because they are. Just like, as a gamer, I'm biased against being called a white male gamer sexist rapist. I'll always be biased being called that.

Edited by Volourn
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DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

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I listened to that huffingtonpost stream with Brianna Wu and god she's kind of an idiot. Her opponent brought specific comparisons and pointed to specific articles in the law and all she could counter with is "You're wrong because I say so".

 

Note for potential idiots: No, this doesn't mean she deserved death threats.

Edited by Fighter
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Shame Quinn wasn't there :lol:

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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She was supposed to?

"Some men see things as they are and say why?"
"I dream things that never were and say why not?"
- George Bernard Shaw

"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."
- Friedrich Nietzsche

 

"The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."

- Some guy 

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