Mishandled development

[FireExit]

Anyway, there is nothing more to talk about on these forums so this will be my last post.

 

See you all in about 6 months.

Woohoo!

[FireExit]

 

Anyway, there is nothing more to talk about on these forums so this will be my last post.

 

See you all in about 6 months.

Good-bye! 

 

We get it Malignacious; you want poe to be like that living embodiment of mediocrity, Dungeon Siege 3. That game almost no one liked, and had no market appeal at all. Your idea that Obsidian should avoid the IE formula that guarantees success in favor of an approach that failed miserably already is beyond foolish.

 

This - I actually just reinstalled and played a bit of DS3 just in case my original thoughts of the game were jaded....

 

Nope, it's still a bad Diablo2 clone, nothing like the original DS

 

I will admit it's graphically pretty, but it lacks game play substance - Keep clicking til the mobs die, no tactics to speak of...

 

I am personally very much looking forward to POE, and while I was looking forward to playing it over the Christmas period, im just as happy to wait for extra polish

[Gromnir]

I have to say I did get alarmed with all of those stretch goals back in the Kickstarter. More classes are more complexity. I just hope OE know what they are doing, and made the budgeting correct. I do want quality.

 

A game that's suppose to be a spiritual successor to amazing games, and got 400% funding, should be on par with those games if not better. Period.

am not certain we agree that more classes is inherently more complex. obsidian is devoted to a notion o' balance, so more classes likely does make more complex in that sense, but the addition o' more classes is not inherently more complex than a zero, two, or eleven class system. a classless system that relies on perks, feats or whatever, can result in as much complexity as an eleven class system if the feats and perks is numerous and diverse. in point o' fact, virtually any class we see in PoE can be recreated with a classless system. those unique class abilities is made available through feats n' such. 

 

with eleven classes you do not necessarily get more complex-- you get more limited. ironic, no? each class needs necessarily become more focused or at least more unique, otherwise there ain't a point to having the class. considering that an obsidian goal were to be allowing greater customization and freedom o' character development than we saw in the ie games, we saw eleven classes as unnecessary. in fact, we suggested that eleven classes were working at cross purposes with their stated goals. as we said, more classes equal less freedom as each class need necessarily fill a more limited role.  nevertheless, we believe obsidian has done an admirable job o' making the classes unique... particularly the casters.

 

even so, more classes don't equal more complexity.  however, with more anything, you does make increasingly difficult to balance.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited October 3, 2014 by Gromnir

[AGX-17]

Edited October 3, 2014 by AGX-17

[Hiro Protagonist II]

I really don't understand why people are calling for bans on people. There's a really easy solution for these threads to be buried and fall off the front page, don't engage in them. I don't want to see the Obsidian forums turn into a heavily moderated forum where some forum posters get so upset by a forum post like the one in the OP (really, that upset you?) and they want to see people banned. I also find it humorous that some of the people calling for bans are people from the Codex. Are the Codex really trolling the Obsidian forum calling for people to be banned? LOL. Oh god. that's hysterical.

 

The OP's post doesn't upset me and I don't go crying to a mod. I have thick skin and can withstand any of Malignacious' threads by not responding in them. I only responded to this thread because so many people are calling for a ban. Really? LOL. Get a grip. If you don't like Malignacious' troll threads, don't respond. Ignore them. Easy isn't it? Apparently not for some people.

Edited October 4, 2014 by Hiro Protagonist II

[constantine]

Plz people, don't feed Malignacious the troll.

 

 

PoE is not your kind of game, Malignacious, please move to some Bioware-DA3 forum and leave us at peace.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

Just don't respond to his threads and let them drop off the front page. But seeing this is on top, I may as well respond too.

Edited October 4, 2014 by Hiro Protagonist II

[constantine]

I'll do that.

[Lephys]

I actually think the best way to deal with threads like this is to "derail" them into actual discussion. Hmm... maybe that'd just be called "railing" a thread?

[Didier2]

I agree with quality over quantity, but I don't consider the number of classes quantity.

I only really consider the length of the campaign.

Wasteland 2 for instance should have focussed more on quality of combat and character system than length of the campaign and number of skills.

 

But I am curious to know what u base your assumption on that the quality of PoE will be lacking?

[Bryy]

Double Fine's adventures with Broken Age and Spacebase are mishandled development.

 

Subjective slights are not.

[Messier-31]

I actually think the best way to deal with threads like this is to "derail" them into actual discussion. Hmm... maybe that'd just be called "railing" a thread?

 

You railed... uh, you nailed it

[archangel979]

I would rather if people just stopped posting and let it die.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

Well it was halfway down the page and on it's way to dropping off but you can see who bumped it again from the previous page.

 

But lets keep bumping it and keep it on top.

[Mr. Magniloquent]

Okay, who's got the oil and torches? A pitchfork; we'll need some of those as well.

 

I'll take this opportunity to state that I have no relation, I was here first, and any similarity in pseudonyms are purely superficial and coincidental.

[Tsuga C]

- Too much content, do people really care about so many classes and so many plotline replays, which frankly, only the tiniest portion of people would ever consume?

Truth be told, replay value and finding something I'd previously missed or wasn't able to access because it was class specific are highly desirable. I certainly hope that PoE is worth 5 or 6 play-throughs with new things cropping up when you select different options.

 

 

They're confused because they're conflating categories and misinterpreting the nature of the product.

No, this is your stumbling block. You backed something that was never intended for you or those of your perspective and you can't quite wrap your mind around the idea that not everyone shares your gaming priorities.

Edited October 6, 2014 by Tsuga C

[Zeckul]

- Too much content, do people really care about so many classes and so many plotline replays, which frankly, only the tiniest portion of people would ever consume?

 

- You focused on the quantity of the content, not quality.

 

- By focusing on the quantity instead of quality, you tricked people into this illusion of false dichotomy, that they will enjoy more content even if it is poorly realized, and in the process rendering yourselves as hardcore old-school developers who care about deep gameplay mechanics and story.

 

- Why not 6 classes instead of 11 ??

Do you really think that gameplay archetypes can be achieved if you shove as many character labels and "unique" spells as possible, instead of just dispersing various pertinent talents and abilities, properly implemented, across 6 classes?

 

 

- Ask yourselves; what is more enjoyable for the vast majority of people: creating highly polished reactive classes which visually emphasize how you lead and develop them in the gameworld, or shoving as much stuff as possible so you can say that the game has a lot of stuff ?

You actually are trying to put so much stuff in it that if you remove half of it, people would still think it's an epic RPG(of course, if it actually had production values)

 

Taking the Infinity Engine games as a reference (since that's a design goal of PoE), 11 classes seems perfectly in line with these old games. It's a lot less than BG2 and a bit more than BG1. Plenty of people cared about all these classes then, including likely many who backed PoE.

 

You make a very general point about a focus on quantity over quality but you don't provide a lot of examples so it looks rather unsubstantial, the only point you actually make is how in your opinion 6 classes would have been better than 11 but that doesn't in itself imply that Obsidian is focusing on quantity rather than quality. Perhaps 11 classes is the optimal number of classes in the system they are designing.

 

Anyway, 6 classes seems like awfully not a lot of classes for a game where you can control 6 characters - it's the bare minimum to allow for a party of 6 different classes, and there's no other possible combination without repetition.

 

- You completely failed at game development, this is not an interactive novel! 

It's a video game, put some production values in it like you did with Dungeon Siege 3. It's frankly embarrassing how you let your standards fall to the ground by entertaining this ludicrous notion you got from people when they tell you that they don't care about animations and graphics.

 

Why do you think that Obsidian entertains the notion that their fans don't care about animations and graphics? What part of the graphics have poor production values? Animations clearly need work but this has been acknowledged by developers and they clearly said that they're working on them and adding new ones, so perhaps you're just not up-to-date on what's going on with development.

Edited October 7, 2014 by Zeckul

[GreyFox]

lol this dood's got jokes

[karelia]

I hope that the game is sufficiently streamlined so that we do not have to deal with superfluous factors such as customisation, optional quests or exploration - ideally we should be aiming for Modern Warfare 2 in isometric form.

[Hatred]

 I don't have access to the beta, heck I havent even bought the game at all. I heard the price would go up on release so I planned to buy it then (I could be so wrong about this, i havent looked into it). I have however been paying a reasonable amount of attention to these forums and to news about this game in general. 

 From all of the following I have done it seems to me that development is being handled very well. With just four million dollars (an amount of money which I believe isnt v much at all for a game budget these days) we be asking obsidian to make a game which is as good as BG/IWD franchise. A lot of posters here think that BG/IWD/PS:T are some of the best video games of all time, and I am on that bandwagon myself.

 I feel like I have been waiting my whole life for this game. Everything I have seen so far makes me think obsidian are doing their level best to give us an experience which fans of those games will enjoy. 

 IMO the most *mishandled development of all time award* would have to go to Skyrim, Fallout 3 and Dragon Age. Each of these titles made me die a little inside and become depressed (like I suffered some actual depression, which might be a bit crazy but eh, i think I am a little crazy). I know I am not in the majority with these opinions. Except here. Seems like these forums are the place where FNV>FO3 and BG>DA:O and Morrowind>Skyrim. So the majority of the backs of this game do not want what you are asking for OP. Its that simple. Nostalgia freak for life.

[Bryy]

It's also important to note that each game is different. No game is going to capture the aesthetics of another, no matter how hard it tries. It may feel like it, but it can never be it.

 

It's also important to note what is bad management and what is simply design decisions we would not have gone with. I would not put Skyrim, FO3, or Dragon Age in any of those categories. You could make a case for DA2, but they still managed to put together a good game in comparison to what they had. 

[Hatred]

It's also important to note that each game is different. No game is going to capture the aesthetics of another, no matter how hard it tries. It may feel like it, but it can never be it.

 

It's also important to note what is bad management and what is simply design decisions we would not have gone with. I would not put Skyrim, FO3, or Dragon Age in any of those categories. You could make a case for DA2, but they still managed to put together a good game in comparison to what they had. 

It is just my opinion they were badly managed due to the choices they made not being the ones I wanted them to make. Im also aware that those games were all commercially successful. I think me calling them mismanaged is about as fair as someone saying PoE is mismanaged. Maybe not fair at all :/

[Bryy]

 

It's also important to note that each game is different. No game is going to capture the aesthetics of another, no matter how hard it tries. It may feel like it, but it can never be it.

 

It's also important to note what is bad management and what is simply design decisions we would not have gone with. I would not put Skyrim, FO3, or Dragon Age in any of those categories. You could make a case for DA2, but they still managed to put together a good game in comparison to what they had. 

It is just my opinion they were badly managed due to the choices they made not being the ones I wanted them to make. Im also aware that those games were all commercially successful. I think me calling them mismanaged is about as fair as someone saying PoE is mismanaged. Maybe not fair at all :/

 

And that's the key word.

 

Successful.

[mudd1]

I'm more interested in actual arguments than toxic populism.

lol Each and every time I've seen your clinically depressed robot face on these forums, you have been spewing venom in the most destructive way possible. Way to go to meet your own standards.

[H0RSE]

This game is a spirituel successor to games with much more than 6 classes, and additional classes were even stretch goals... Which means that your 4 million dollars are earmarked for, among other things, more than 6 classes.

 

But couldn't it be argued that if the game offered only 6 classes, but allowed for a lot of flexibility within those classes, whether through kits or whatever, that it could be as good or better than having more classes in general to choose from?

 

I haven't played the beta, but based on the forums, it appears there's a bunch of fuss going on about the Fighter and Rogue and how they are too inflexible. Apparently Fighter's are designed with a core purpose in mind - holding the line and taking on a more defensive roll. What if I wanted to make a Fighter that specializes in crossbows or dual-wields for a more dps approach? Are these viable or even possible choices in the current game, and if they're not, what if they were? I just built an xbow Fighter in BG2 last night, and so far, he's really fun to play. Will it be practical or even possible to do this in PoE?