Combat XP Poll - Let's See What We Think Now

[Fearabbit]

 

 

What does NOT make sense from a roleplaying perspective is getting xp from a quest where you used stealth to complete the objectives, then putting points into your axe skill.

 

 

And how, exactly, does stabbing beetles make you better at lockpicking?

 

You're just regurgitating arguments that have been shot down in every other thread on this same subject. At least think through your own reasoning before posting stuff, dude.

 

 

This is rich. You're using an argument that applies to ALL XP systems to denigrate kill xp. That's idiotic because this game uses an XP system, so you're basically saying this game makes no sense according to you.

 

 

And this is why we can't have nice discussions on this board. Sergio, do you not realize that it was you who made the pointless argument about how XP systems don't make sense? It's right there in the quote!

You: "It does not make sense to improve Axe skill with XP from a stealth-only quest."

Him: "Yeah but it also doesn't make sense if you improve Lockpicking with XP from killing monsters."

You: "But that applies to all XP systems. Lol, that is so rich and idiotic."

 

...?!

 

As for the poll, I'd like to see more objectives that give XP. Yes I want exploration XP when I find a special location, no I don't want to get XP for every single lock I pick.

I would also like the XP to be awarded for completing parts of a quest. I want a bunch of XP for getting to the dungeon. Then a bunch of XP once I get to the chamber where the final boss is. Hopefully it'll be enough to level up before the fight. Then after killing the final boss and getting back to the guy who gave me the quest, I want the rest of the XP.

Other than that I'm happy with the system.

 

 

ALSO can we please drop the "fun" argument? Because both sides use it the same way anyway.

Pro Kill XP: "Anyone who fights against monsters just for the XP even though he isn't having fun has a personality disorder and that's not the game's problem."

Pro Objective XP: "Anyone who complains about having no incentive for combat without XP anymore is clearly missing the point, which is that combat is fun."

 

This is going in circles.

Edited August 21, 2014 by Fearabbit

[Killyox]

Do people play for XP or for fun?

 

I will go into that dungeon even with 0 XP for it just to have fun fights and maybe find some loot. Some XP would be ok for kills but if there is none it won't really bother me in any way at all.

[Namutree]

 

There's no settling in. It's a terrible system that forces quest railroading. No fun exploration to be had, we'll too busy doing quest to have any fun. 

 

I know you aren't the first to use this term but I just have to mention this has to be my favorite new bs term. I am glad business doesn't have a monopoly on this junk. As if I wasn't incentivized in other RPGs to do every available quest. No I don't want massive XP and kewl loot game. Silence all that stupid dialogue and attempts to tell me a story. I grind for my power! Ah yeah feel all that freedom from the tyranny of quests! The worst thing to ever be introduced to an RPG. No more bowing and scraping to stupid NPCs. Now I murder them for their XP like a truly free psychopath.

 

As a matter of fact I almost never do even half the quests in BG. The funnest thing to do in that game is to explore, and quests usually get in the way of that.

[Sarex]

Do people play for XP or for fun?

 

I will go into that dungeon even with 0 XP for it just to have fun fights and maybe find some loot. Some XP would be ok for kills but if there is none it won't really bother me in any way at all.

 

I play for the fun of collecting xp.

[Killyox]

 

Do people play for XP or for fun?

 

I will go into that dungeon even with 0 XP for it just to have fun fights and maybe find some loot. Some XP would be ok for kills but if there is none it won't really bother me in any way at all.

 

I play for the fun of collecting xp.

 

Why not play an MMO, like WOW, you can grind your way to max lvl with nothing but killing stuff. When you're done, do it again in different zone or diff char. Or GW2 where you get XP and benefits even at max level. No sarcasm intended.

 

You will collect lots of xp

Edited August 21, 2014 by Killyox

[Sarex]

Why not play an MMO, like WOW, you can grind your way to max lvl with nothing but killing stuff. When you're done, do it again in different zone or diff char. Or GW2 where you get XP and benefits even at max level. No sarcasm intended.

 

You will collect lots of xp

 

Because I want to play PoE? What kind of question is that?

[Lioness]

I have a lot of issues with combat, but the XP or lack there off is not one of them.

[Bloody Hypocrite]

 

 

Do people play for XP or for fun?

 

I will go into that dungeon even with 0 XP for it just to have fun fights and maybe find some loot. Some XP would be ok for kills but if there is none it won't really bother me in any way at all.

 

I play for the fun of collecting xp.

 

Why not play an MMO, like WOW, you can grind your way to max lvl with nothing but killing stuff. When you're done, do it again in different zone or diff char. Or GW2 where you get XP and benefits even at max level. No sarcasm intended.

 

You will collect lots of xp

 

My favorite build in rpgs has always been the smooth talking thief. I don't care much for power gaming or combat in particular. I dislike mmos precisely because they tend to ignore anything that isn't combat related. What strikes me as odd is that Obsidian have made a significant shift from the IE games to make all classes and builds equally combat viable, changing the thief into basically a mmo rogue (when the whole point of a stealthy skill-based smooth talker is to avoid combat) and then putting players in a position that combat is the only option to progress. With the current XP system, the combat-centric nature of the class design doesn't really make much sense to me.

[PrimeJunta]

Haha, actually you ought to then be in the happy minority who likes the current attribute system. Pump PER. It's fairly useless in combat but does wonders for dialog. 

[Volourn]

"Do people play for XP or for fun?"

 

Maybe, it's both? People play for leveling their characters by getting xp and they do it for fun. IMAGINE THAT.

 

 

"Why not play an MMO, like WOW, you can grind your way to max lvl with nothing but killing stuff. When you're done, do it again in different zone or diff char. Or GW2 where you get XP and benefits even at max level. No sarcasm intended."

 

That's A LOT of sarcasm. Why don't they play IE games, DOS, M&M games, and a host of other games right? Your logic is horrible.

 

 

And, against it's not about 'kill xp'. At least not for me. It's about legit rewarding the player for overcoming challenges in a fair and reasonable manner. PE does not do this. DOS does. SRR does.

[fangGWJ]

Because we start at level 5 instead of 1 I don't feel like we can accurately say what effect no combat xp has on the experience.

 

However, I do have some concerns that the sporadic brutality of combat, even on easy, is making combat much less fun.

 

And it isn't necessarily that you party members die or the stamina/wounds system, which I like a lot.  I think it is that you accumulate wounds way too quickly.  Often you accumulate them side by side with stamina loss which equals game over incredibly (far too) quickly.

 

There really isn't a choice on whether to rest or risk one more battle to try and get better mileage out of your characters between rests.  You rest, period and sometimes after single non boss encounters. (on easy)

[Ineth]

(Random) combat will still have its rewards, and that reward is loot.

 

And also, unlocking information in the in-game bestiary.

[Volourn]

The combat isn't brutal. It's not hard even with vanishing items. Then again, too many things are buggy since soemtimes enemies can't hurt me at all even when I'm hitting them with my fists.

[Osvir]

Still voting for Class/Character/Objective Levels and Skill Levels, separate types. Out of Combat Levels and In Combat Levels.

[Tartantyco]

Sergio, you should have no problems finding enough loot to buy your new boots. I think the Medreth encounter alone might actually get you there.

[Failion]

It is for the better this way. XP on kills encourages player to take optimal paths in rpg games which hurts the whole choose your path portion in the rpg. Dumb making a game that gives the player options and reputations but have everyone follow the same route because "X" route gives more xp gains. I think in witcher 2? People went this one route in the story not because of whats going on in the story and what they prefer but because of xp gain which is really dumb.

Edited August 21, 2014 by Failion

[Sarex]

Kill xp doesn't necessarily mean more xp for those who finish quest by killing everyone, numbers can always be tweaked.

[Msxyz]

Those of you who like the current system rejoice, it isn't changing. let's just hope they work the kinks out of it. Those of you in favor of another system settle in, it isn't changing. Let's just hope they work the kinks out of it.

If they don't rework this system or find a solution to make the FORCED, random battles more rewarding or less pointless (right now, it seems they are just there to make the players spend more time on a map) I don't see me buying the expansion or supporting the sequels. TBH, the 'no battle Xp' is just the tip of the iceberg; after playing the beta, i don't feel PoE to be a 'spiritual successor to IE games' more than any other isonometric RPG out there.

 

I don't think I'll be alone in this; in the end the whole community will suffer because if the game faile to raise enough interest, there will be no sequel at all.

[Wintersong]

You won't take a reputation or alignment hit for killing the extremely hostile spiders and beetles (Lions too IIRC) in PoE either... But oh well, if you say so.

 

Hopefully you don't participate in more "degenerate behavior" and go on a killing spree to collect beetle bits (for crafting) in PoE.

Wouldn't killing for crafting be like killing trees for wood? Or animals for food? It's not "random killing for XP". It serves a purpose. The same that killing a bunch of xvarts because your character must cleanse the world from xvarts is not the same as killing them just for XP.

 

Roleplaying a character cannot be degenerate behaviour in an RPG game. That would be nuts.

 

"Killing critters, monsters, or non-humanoids in the wild in BG was essentially easy XP to farm without taking any reputation or alignment hit."

 

Well, for the most part, you were doing the world a favor eliminating  scumbag gnolls, dangerous giants spiders who target humanoids instead of tiny insects, or wild 9as opposed to non wild lol) basilisks so think of the xp as an award for making the world a safer place for the innocents who love to go for the stroll in the woods unmolested.

Hey! Those scumbags have feelings too. And stuff.

http://thenoobcomic.com/index.php?pos=24

http://thenoobcomic.com/index.php?pos=25

 

[Doppelschwert]

Stupid question, but what happens if you just go to kill the ogre without talking to the farmer first?

Are you awarded with all the exp you'd get for the quest along the way? Is the quest started on the way?

Does it make a difference for the argument here?

 

I'd try it myself, but it's to buggy for me at the current state.

[DaxD]

Can't loot fill the small measure of gain via combat? I am not oppossed to receiving no experience from combat as long as a few useful trinkets here or there are gained for doing so.

[Grand_Commander13]

If they don't rework this system or find a solution to make the FORCED, random battles more rewarding or less pointless (right now, it seems they are just there to make the players spend more time on a map) I don't see me buying the expansion or supporting the sequels. TBH, the 'no battle Xp' is just the tip of the iceberg; after playing the beta, i don't feel PoE to be a 'spiritual successor to IE games' more than any other isonometric RPG out there.

 

I don't think I'll be alone in this; in the end the whole community will suffer because if the game faile to raise enough interest, there will be no sequel at all.

The problem is simple: you and your fellow whiners heard that they would be taking some very broad aspects of some old RPGs and in your heads decided that meant that Obsidian was making Baldur's Gate 3. If this imagined promise causes you to snap at Obsidian for Pillars of Eternity when it's finally released, you'll be savaging the only company willing to make old-style RPGs; you'll be complaining about the ten or twenty percent of peripheral content that's different when the core stuff – what they were selling the game on and what everyone got so excited – is all right there.

[Msxyz]

It is for the better this way. XP on kills encourages player to take optimal paths in rpg games which hurts the whole choose your path portion in the rpg. Dumb making a game that gives the player options and reputations but have everyone follow the same route because "X" route gives more xp gains. I think in witcher 2? People went this one route in the story not because of whats going on in the story and what they prefer but because of xp gain which is really dumb.

So what will powerplayers do? They will complete every possible sidequest, fed'exing stuff around the world and always being a good boyscout, no matter if it goes against their party ethics or such.

 

If the scope was to reward questing instead of grinding or powerplaying, it won't prevent people to find ways to maximize the experience gained. Not to mention that combat will become only a mere annoyance. This, coupled with the 'no bad build approach' will make this game very, very tedious.

 

Remember people attacking Bioware for the 'awesome button'? Here we have an entire gameplay designed for the 'something awesome always happens'. Oh, and wave after wave of filler combat too.

Edited August 21, 2014 by Msxyz

[Elerond]

 

It is for the better this way. XP on kills encourages player to take optimal paths in rpg games which hurts the whole choose your path portion in the rpg. Dumb making a game that gives the player options and reputations but have everyone follow the same route because "X" route gives more xp gains. I think in witcher 2? People went this one route in the story not because of whats going on in the story and what they prefer but because of xp gain which is really dumb.

So what will powerplayers do? They will complete every possible sidequest, fed'exing stuff around the world and always being a good boyscout, no matter if it goes against their party ethics or such.

 

 

That is just bad quest design which has nothing to do with xp system.

[Msxyz]

 

 

It is for the better this way. XP on kills encourages player to take optimal paths in rpg games which hurts the whole choose your path portion in the rpg. Dumb making a game that gives the player options and reputations but have everyone follow the same route because "X" route gives more xp gains. I think in witcher 2? People went this one route in the story not because of whats going on in the story and what they prefer but because of xp gain which is really dumb.

 

So what will powerplayers do? They will complete every possible sidequest, fed'exing stuff around the world and always being a good boyscout, no matter if it goes against their party ethics or such.

That is just bad quest design which has nothing to do with xp system.

it has, since you can't progress otherwise.

 

People will always aim for the highest reward; gimping a game to force one way of playing doesn't solve the proble at the heart.

Edited August 21, 2014 by Msxyz