Character creation - totaly confused about stats

[Aramintai]

Can someone point me into a good thread where all these stats are throroughly explained, like what is good for each class?. I'm a veteran AD&D player, so cross-references will be a good way to explain. 

[BAdler]

Can someone point me into a good thread where all these stats are throroughly explained, like what is good for each class?. I'm a veteran AD&D player, so cross-references will be a good way to explain. 

 

PoE's attributes don't work exactly like D&D. There aren't good or bad stats for any class, really. The stats will change how you play your characters, though.

 

For example, If I want a Wizard that has high Might and Resolve, his spells will do additional damage (might) and it will be harder for enemies to interrupt his casting (resolve). If instead I put points into Intelligence and Dexterity, the Wizard's spells will have longer durations and a larger area of effect (intelligence) and the spells will hit more often (dex).

[SqueakyCat]

I have found the Wiki to be helpful in answering some of my questions. 

[sparklecat]

For example, If I want a Wizard that has high Might and Resolve, his spells will do additional damage (might) ...

 

I was wondering about that very question during character creation, myself.  Given that many RPG players are going to be coming in with the assumption that Might = Strength, it might not hurt to make this explicit in the Might description in-game?  Say that it increases physical and magical damage, rather than simply "damage."

[vril]

The descriptions are very good.  There are no dump stats like D&D.

[Necro]

The descriptions are very good.  There are no dump stats like D&D.

i'd say perception is currently kind of a dump stat as interrupt % is easily the worst benefit out of all the stats.

[Pray]

 

The descriptions are very good.  There are no dump stats like D&D.

i'd say perception is currently kind of a dump stat as interrupt % is easily the worst benefit out of all the stats.

 

Penetration used to be lumped with perception. I don't know why they did away with that (though in the incarnation that I had seen it, my first thought that perception would easily have been one of the best stats). In it's current state, it looks like one of the most niche stats.

[MrPopoGod]

The descriptions are very good.  There are no dump stats like D&D.

They are good, but as mentioned it would help for a little more detail.  Since many of the stat names harken back to D&D stats it would help to be explicit when they diverge (as in the case of Might).

[Aramintai]

 

For example, If I want a Wizard that has high Might and Resolve, his spells will do additional damage (might) ...

 

I was wondering about that very question during character creation, myself.  Given that many RPG players are going to be coming in with the assumption that Might = Strength, it might not hurt to make this explicit in the Might description in-game?  Say that it increases physical and magical damage, rather than simply "damage."

 

I've been having the same thought when I first saw it - I thought it was good only for fighting classes. There needs to be a better explanation on all the stats, and more importantly there needs to be a default arrangement of points for each class for new players, so that they won't gimp themselves right from the start.

[sparklecat]

 

The descriptions are very good.  There are no dump stats like D&D.

i'd say perception is currently kind of a dump stat as interrupt % is easily the worst benefit out of all the stats.

 

You're assuming that combat effectiveness is the main point of building a character, though.  I'm going with high perception for the conversation options it'll open up.

[Bryy]

 

For example, If I want a Wizard that has high Might and Resolve, his spells will do additional damage (might) ...

 

I was wondering about that very question during character creation, myself.  Given that many RPG players are going to be coming in with the assumption that Might = Strength, it might not hurt to make this explicit in the Might description in-game?  Say that it increases physical and magical damage, rather than simply "damage."

 

I second this.

 

As much as people don't like **** being streamlined, you guys of all people know that you need to dumb it down as much as possible (and before anyone asks, no, "dumb it down" does not mean strip it of all function so those with the IQ of 20 can use it).

Edited August 19, 2014 by Bryy

[AuroraDragonKaya]

I would say I was also confused. Coming in from a table top gaming perspective, I'm gonna assume that might = strength and clearly not a stat for wizards, for example. As a first time play, the descriptions were more overwhelming than helpful. I know it'd be extra work, but it'd be really, REALLY helpful to have even a sentence for each class explaining what the stat does for that class specifically. When you say it as you did, it makes more sense.

I should add I really like how you did the stat. I like playing social characters and I feel I can do that a lot more with this stat system without screwing myself over, buuuut I didn't actually know that until I came here and read this. So I definitely think there's room for clarity.

[Aramintai]

I should add I really like how you did the stat. I like playing social characters and I feel I can do that a lot more with this stat system without screwing myself over, buuuut I didn't actually know that until I came here and read this. So I definitely think there's room for clarity.

I like social characters as well, but this game doesn't feel like it will follow in Planescape: Torment steps, where you could beat it without engaging in combat, more like in BG and IWD. So that means lots of combat, not engaging in lengthy dialogues. And that means that all stats should be equally good for combat, not like an optional Charisma from AD&D.

[Bli1942]

The attributes are kinda confusing, I was expecting recommendations for the classes. It's probably better but harder to learn for new people than the old style of attributes

[Giubba]

I second the sentiment.

 

Char creation is quite confusing, i think that the description should adapt to the class of the character with an example of what investing point in that stat mean for that specific class.

[AdaMusic]

I think the deveolopers should be really really careful if they implement hand holding like recommended stats and such. Let people explore the game themselves and not tell them what is good and/or bad. Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 did it pretty good with just a hint telling what the purpose of the different stats are and what is "standard" for a specific class. 

[Bli1942]

I think the deveolopers should be really really careful if they implement hand holding like recommended stats and such. Let people explore the game themselves and not tell them what is good and/or bad. Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 did it pretty good with just a hint telling what the purpose of the different stats are and what is "standard" for a specific class. 

 

I think they should do what Glubba mentioned, though it might be a fair bit of written instructions, it would be nice to say "this attribute does 'x' for 'y' class" for every class on every attribute. At the moment there's too much "wtf does this mean?" and i don't want to have to get 5 hours in and restart and I can see that happening when people finally realize what every attribute does for them, I really don't enjoy doing that

Edited August 19, 2014 by Bli1942

[AdaMusic]

 

I think the deveolopers should be really really careful if they implement hand holding like recommended stats and such. Let people explore the game themselves and not tell them what is good and/or bad. Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 did it pretty good with just a hint telling what the purpose of the different stats are and what is "standard" for a specific class. 

 

I think they should do what Glubba mentioned, though it might be a fair bit of written instructions, it would be nice to say "this attribute does 'x' for 'y' class" for every class on every attribute. At the moment there's too much "wtf does this mean?" and i don't want to have to get 5 hours in and restart and I can see that happening when people finally realize what every attribute does for them, I really don't enjoy doing that

 

 

But the game looses immersion and that roleplaying feeling if every character choice in character creation just comes down to "combat numbers". The numbers should indicate a description of how a character is, not only exact changes of combat gameplay.

 

Example: I want my character to be a witty and intelligent dwarf; so I put numbers in stats that indicate this. I don't want to play a game where it all comes down to making the "perfect and strongest combination of numbers". It completely ruins immersion and the feeling of actually being in a fantasy world. I know that the numbers are there, but I don't want to be reminded of them. Same with hit points, stamina points, mana points, etc... they are just solutions to a game design problem that hasn't found a better immersive solution.

[MasterPrudent]

I'm not sure I understand the request to explain what each stat does for each class given that they all do exactly the same thing for every class.

Edited August 19, 2014 by MasterPrudent

[MReed]

It is important to note that one of the design goals of this system is to ensure that (as long as you spend all of your points) it is impossible to make a gimped (in combat) character.  That is, if you randomly distribute the points to stats, and randomly select a class, as long as you play to your strengths then you will have a character that is just as strong as if you had spent hours analyzing the interplay of bonuses and penalties.

 

Now whether or not this is a good thing is another question altogether, but that's the explicit design goal.   

 

Keeping this design goal in mind, it would be counterproductive for the developers to provide suggestions as to how to allocate stat points based on the player's class.

[Bli1942]

I'm not sure I understand the request to explain what each stat does for each class given that they all do exactly the same thing for every class.

 

 

 

They need to work on said descriptions. "intimidating displays and acts of brute force" sounds like something you wouldn't give a mage standing 30m out of battle, which leads someone to think this is a beefy dumb troll attribute. it also gives +8% healing with no explanation. The name also needs to be changed as might has been used as the opposite to magic in fantasy for a long time, yet this attribute is great for magic

 

ALso intellect says it help AoE and durations which are usually synonymous with mage characters, how do we know at the start that melee characters will even have duration attacks or benefit from it?

 

Resolve says it helps "concentration" and "will" but I have no idea at the point of picking points what concentration or will do for my characters, concentration sounds like something only a mage would benefit from as well

 

All in all kind of vague. Maybe it'll encourage people to pick more randomly and that's how they want it...I don't know, but it's not the nicest attribute picking system

 

First timers to RPG's are gonna be very confused, but if they can get by picking anything then fair enough

Edited August 19, 2014 by Bli1942

[Giubba]

 

I'm not sure I understand the request to explain what each stat does for each class given that they all do exactly the same thing for every class.

 

 

 

They need to work on said descriptions. "intimidating displays and acts of brute force" sounds like something you wouldn't give a mage standing 30m out of battle, which leads someone to think this is a beefy dumb troll attribute. it also gives +8% healing with no explanation. The name also needs to be changed as might has been used as the opposite to magic in fantasy for a long time, yet this attribute is great for magic

 

ALso intellect says it help AoE and durations which are usually synonymous with mage characters, how do we know at the start that melee characters will even have duration attacks or benefit from it? It's just very vague

 

Resolve says it helps "concentration" and "will" but I have no idea at the point of picking points what concentration or will do for my characters, concentration sounds like something only a mage would benefit from as well

 

All in all kind of vague. Maybe it'll encourage people to pick more randomly and that's how they want it...I don't know, but it's not the nicest attribute picking system

 

First timers to RPG's are gonna be very confused, but if they can get by picking anything then fair enough

 

 

I'm not a first timers and the attributes system is confusing as hell, just to point out there isn't even an explanation that attributes do the same thing for magical and non magical class.

And the whole system reach a new level of "WTF I'M DOING" with the non canonical class like the cipher

Edited August 19, 2014 by Giubba

[Totottoro]

I just have to jump in here and voice  my agreement with Giubba et al. 

 

The descriptions should help both newbs and veterans alike to understand the mechanics of the game. Seeing as how many of the attribute names are very old school, but the impact of said attributes vary greatly from the "norm".

[Mrakvampire]

I agree with confusion. I, as veteran player of tabletop (D&D / Pathfinder) + oldschool RPGs (Baldur's Gate, Planescape:Torment, Fallout) + modern RPG player (a lot of them ) was really, really confused with stat explanation. I've read description and nothing there pointed to me that there is a totally new mechanic. Might = Strength for me and Resolve = Charisma. Maybe I have some really really bad issues with my English (it's not my native language, as I'm just a hamster, you know) - this is my feedback. 

 

Stat explanation with EXAMPLES FOR EVERY CLASS should be more clear. 

Edited August 19, 2014 by Mrakvampire

[Kronos]

 

Can someone point me into a good thread where all these stats are throroughly explained, like what is good for each class?. I'm a veteran AD&D player, so cross-references will be a good way to explain.

 

PoE's attributes don't work exactly like D&D. There aren't good or bad stats for any class, really. The stats will change how you play your characters, though.

 

For example, If I want a Wizard that has high Might and Resolve, his spells will do additional damage (might) and it will be harder for enemies to interrupt his casting (resolve). If instead I put points into Intelligence and Dexterity, the Wizard's spells will have longer durations and a larger area of effect (intelligence) and the spells will hit more often (dex).

Seriously... I say nay and nay some more. I'm not feeling this; hopefully there will be some significant tweaking that goes into the existing system, as this currently makes little common sense to me. Maybe just go back to traditional Str, Dex, Con, Wis, Int, Cha methodology & be done with all of this tomfoolery. Edited August 19, 2014 by Kronos