Star Wars Episode 7 Thread

[GhoulishVisage]

The original trilogy may have been "childish" as you put it, but they were excellently crafted from beginning to end.
They had tremendous heart and imagination, they distilled what we loved about heroes, villains, princesses and dashing rogues into a tight plot that may have been simplistic, but was breathtaking in it's execution.

The prequels were dull. They had dull dialogue, they had dull cinematography, dull pacing and the plot was a muddled dull mess.
They tried to mask this dullness with flashy cgi and giant overlong computer-generated set pieces, but those just exacerbated the dullness.
They had no heart, no soul.

The prequels may have been just as 'childish" as the original trilogy, but they were an entirely different beast. A mishmash of design-by-comittee tedium, George Lucas's inflated ego and a lesson in why you need people who can say "no".

[Malcador]

Bleh. I thought this drama was over days ago.

That was some wonderful trolling. Amazing how outrage just echoes

[Hurlshort]

Again, just a bizarre way to approach entertainment. I am just looking for good performances and a fun movie, pretty sure I will get it. Also, Mad Max was incredibly fun, if you spent any time looking for pc garbage in that action fest, I feel bad for you.

[Leferd]

We can only hope that Episode 7 is as half good as Fury Road was. That was some kinds of special filmmaking.

[Elerond]

We can only hope that Episode 7 is as half good as Fury Road was. That was some kinds of special filmmaking.

J.J. Abrams and Disney behind don't rise my hopes very high, as they are both parties that focus more in making films marketable than great. But there are die hard Star Wars fans in the production team, that have spoken promising things about the movie so I do have some hope left in me.

[Leferd]

 

We can only hope that Episode 7 is as half good as Fury Road was. That was some kinds of special filmmaking.

 

J.J. Abrams and Disney behind don't rise my hopes very high, as they are both parties that focus more in making films marketable than great. But there are die hard Star Wars fans in the production team, that have spoken promising things about the movie so I do have some hope left in me.

I don't get some of this hate on Abrams. He's worked on some really good stuff. The Star Treks were fun. Alias and Lost were cool. MI:3 was good. He's not Ridley Scott but he's no hack either. As you alluded to, he's also got a great crew working behind him...not the least of whom is Lawrence Kasdan. I'm optimistic.

 

Regarding Disney and Star Wars, I'm pretty sure their marketing department is pretty competent -being that they have 29 Scrooge McDuckized Moneybins - which leads me to believe that their marketing machine is telling them to give the people what they want: A nostalgia-laced sequel in the style and spirit of the original trilogy.

[Malcador]

The Star Treks were fun. Alias and Lost were cool. MI:3 was good.

Uh huh...

[ManifestedISO]

 

But yeah, even to a non-Star Trek fan like me it was obvious that he was less than reverent to the source material.

 

In truth Abrams went out of his way to be reverential to the source, including inviting Majel Barrett for what would be her last speaking part in Trek before passing away, and the appearance of James Doohan's son as an engineering officer are only two examples.     

[Leferd]

 

The Star Treks were fun. Alias and Lost were cool. MI:3 was good.

Uh huh...

Yup.

[teknoman2]

the thing that made great the old trilogy, was that they chose ONE way of film making and stayed focused on it... and this is exactly what the 2nd trilogy lacks "focus".

this new movie seems to have found that focus again... at least that is the vibe i get from the trailers

[Blarghagh]

It was interesting to see how the fans hated the new trilogy when Lucas basically gave them more of the same. They like to think they grew up, yet lined up to watch a sequel to a fairy tale.... expecting to see, what? The new trilogy is literally an inferior copy of the old films, fan fiction style. But it wasn't just disliked, it was positively hated.

I don't know, I'd say there is a difference. There's a very fine line for kids movies. I'll use some kids' cartoons as an example: Despicable Me was a movie obviously made for kids, but it had character and a well-crafted story that made it enjoyable for adults as well. It's spinoff, Minions, was made entirely for children and there was no appeal for adults in that slapschticky mess. Yet in many ways, they're the same movies. I think it's a question of storytelling quality. Star Wars was a simple story, but it was told well. The prequels, not so much. I still couldn't tell you who the lead character of The Phantom Menace was. What was the plot of that movie? Something about trade blockades and elections?

[ManifestedISO]

 

I would give an assessment of Into Darkness if I remembered even a little bit of it. I know I've seen it, but all I remember is that Cumberbatch was in it as some kind of superman terrorist?

 

I just watched it and can confirm basically, literally, Alcatraz, The Rock, gets obliterated by a starship once owned by Robocop, dive-bombed by Sherlock.  

[Guard Dog]

Episodes 1-3 tried to tell a small story within the context of a bigger one happening in the background. It went wrong by shifting the focus back and forth between the two. Plus the dialogue was, for the most part, just brutal to listen to. That is a separate issue though. 

 

Episodes 4-6 told a small story and while doing that, brought the viewer into the larger one by exposition and a slow trickle of details. But it never lost the small story in the big one. It worked so much better. As Hemingway would tell us don't use one word more than is needed.

 

Just my $.02

[Raithe]

What's really weird is that the story actually worked a lot better if you read the book versions of Episodes 1-3. It just failed in the medium of film, maybe it was helped by all the extra padding/information/what characters were actually thinking in the novels rather than just having to go by mass cgi effects and the brutal dialogue when it's on screen.

[Drowsy Emperor]

Episodes 1-3 had a great number of flaws, most notably the atrocious script and characters which is something that no amount of cgi or star wars flair can make up for.

 

But I'll wager they're more Star Wars than what Abrams is going to make. Its just likely that Abram's films will be easier to watch due to more aggressive editing and more action - and leave a better first impression. But the days of carefree adventures with light banter and witty retorts as in the original films are over in Hollywood, and have been for some time

 

If the audience in Bangalore and Bangkok can't "get it" without having to stretch their grey cells or without knowing basic cultural tropes, it isn't getting made. 

Edited October 25, 2015 by Drowsy Emperor

[Guard Dog]

What's really weird is that the story actually worked a lot better if you read the book versions of Episodes 1-3. It just failed in the medium of film, maybe it was helped by all the extra padding/information/what characters were actually thinking in the novels rather than just having to go by mass cgi effects and the brutal dialogue when it's on screen.

I generally never read the novelized version of movie scripts because when the script comes first the novel seldom has anything new that wasn't in the movie. Well, at least nothing significant to the story anyway. But I did real all three novels of the original movie because I was a kid and that is just how much I was into it. One thing I do remember in the Return of the Jedi book was Vader's inner thoughts and back story and how he became Darth Vader and it strikes me how it didn't match what Lucas did in the prequels. Instead of a true villain who turned his back on his friends for a lust for power Anakin turned out to be just an immature kid who was manipulated by someone smarter. Yes I get that Lucas was trying to make his fall "tragic" by employing one of the principles of tragedy (the thing he reached for to save his love caused her death) but it was done in such a ham fisted way it just ruined the character for me.

 

And that is a shame because Star Wars really was the story of Darth Vader.

[Namutree]

 

What's really weird is that the story actually worked a lot better if you read the book versions of Episodes 1-3. It just failed in the medium of film, maybe it was helped by all the extra padding/information/what characters were actually thinking in the novels rather than just having to go by mass cgi effects and the brutal dialogue when it's on screen.

I generally never read the novelized version of movie scripts because when the script comes first the novel seldom has anything new that wasn't in the movie. Well, at least nothing significant to the story anyway. But I did real all three novels of the original movie because I was a kid and that is just how much I was into it. One thing I do remember in the Return of the Jedi book was Vader's inner thoughts and back story and how he became Darth Vader and it strikes me how it didn't match what Lucas did in the prequels. Instead of a true villain who turned his back on his friends for a lust for power Anakin turned out to be just an immature kid who was manipulated by someone smarter. Yes I get that Lucas was trying to make his fall "tragic" by employing one of the principles of tragedy (the thing he reached for to save his love caused her death) but it was done in such a ham fisted way it just ruined the character for me.

 

And that is a shame because Star Wars really was the story of Darth Vader.

 

Yup. This is a big part of where the prequels went wrong. Anakin's fall never had to be sympathetic. It would have been better if Anakin would have turned to the dark side for power rather than desperation.

[Blarghagh]

And there's the problem that Episode 3's version of his fall to the dark side makes it impossible to redeem him. Killing the emperor does not erase killing every single kid in the Jedi temple one by one. What the ****, the Force accepts him and shows him as a Force ghost at the end of the series after THAT? He needs to go to Darkside Hell or something!

[Leferd]

And there's the problem that Episode 3's version of his fall to the dark side makes it impossible to redeem him. Killing the emperor does not erase killing every single kid in the Jedi temple one by one. What the ****, the Force accepts him and shows him as a Force ghost at the end of the series after THAT? He needs to go to Darkside Hell or something!

Well, to be fair, the original trilogy explicitly stated that he hunted and exterminated all the Jedi. Revenge only implied that he just killed Jedi babies.

[kirottu]

And there's the problem that Episode 3's version of his fall to the dark side makes it impossible to redeem him. Killing the emperor does not erase killing every single kid in the Jedi temple one by one. What the ****, the Force accepts him and shows him as a Force ghost at the end of the series after THAT? He needs to go to Darkside Hell or something!

 

He worked for the church. Different galaxy, same rules.

[Blarghagh]

 

And there's the problem that Episode 3's version of his fall to the dark side makes it impossible to redeem him. Killing the emperor does not erase killing every single kid in the Jedi temple one by one. What the ****, the Force accepts him and shows him as a Force ghost at the end of the series after THAT? He needs to go to Darkside Hell or something!

Well, to be fair, the original trilogy explicitly stated that he hunted and exterminated all the Jedi. Revenge only implied that he just killed Jedi babies.

 

I'd say there's a difference between trained soldiers who can put up a fight and itty widdle kiddies who can barely hold a lightsaber.

[Raithe]

The bit in the novels that really worked well was the further explanation on how so much of what was going on was purely set in motion by Palpatine as distractions to the Jedi, ways to set it up so more Jedi would get exposed to the dark side and potential "corruption", and then Yoda's realisation of just how monumentally he'd screwed up.

 

The half a page or so when Yoda was fleeing the Senate chamber after that duel with Palpatine and the penny has dropped, and he's just "oh hell. I spent 900 years training Jedi to fight the LAST war and got them all focused and living the wrong way and set them up for this..." was really well done and highlighted elements to the story that never really get picked up in the films.

[teknoman2]

And there's the problem that Episode 3's version of his fall to the dark side makes it impossible to redeem him. Killing the emperor does not erase killing every single kid in the Jedi temple one by one. What the ****, the Force accepts him and shows him as a Force ghost at the end of the series after THAT? He needs to go to Darkside Hell or something!

the force is true neutral, it doesnt care what you do. the ability to take on the ghost form comes from the jedi's connection to the force and his own mental state, the force itself does not pick sides.

[Darkpriest]

Wow, this is a nice mashup

 

[Raithe]

For the offbeat amusement...

 

ABC - Ukrainians transform Lenin statue into Darth Vader

 

 

 

Just in time for the release of the latest Star Wars blockbuster, Ukrainians in Odessa have transformed a statue of Lenin into one of Darth Vader, an oddly prominent figure in local politics.

 

Soviet founder Lenin, long despised by most in non-separatist parts of Ukraine, fell victim to a law adopted in April that ordered the removal of all symbols and insignia reminding the country of its communist past.

 

Darth Vader is also cast as the embodiment of evil in the George Lucas movies — a black-masked, light sabre-wielding villain who is in permanent battle with the good Force.

But the Dark Lord of the Sith is a rather more popular figure in Ukraine, where Western culture is being embraced and the Soviet past erased from history, a transition that outrages Russia.

 

One masked villain tried joining last year's presidential race, being denied registration only after he refused to disclose his real name and identity papers.

Later that year, Darth Vaders ran as candidates for mayors of Kiev and Odessa, the historic Black Sea port where the new statue was formally unveiled on Friday.

 

 

Star Wars characters such as the grunting, hairy giant Chewbacca, the Jedi Master Yoda and the courageous Princess Amidala also tried their luck in November's parliamentary poll in full costume, all without success.

 

Most of these offbeat candidates represent the tiny Pirate Party of Ukraine, one of more than 40 groups that have sprung up worldwide in defence of Internet freedoms and limits on copyright laws.

 

This Sunday, another Darth Vader will run for Odessa mayor again as the crisis-torn east European country holds local elections across Kiev-controlled lands.

"After the de-communisation law was adopted earlier this year, we had to decide what to do with the monument [of Lenin]," said Oleksandr Milov, the new statue's sculptor.

"Honestly, I did not like the idea of destroying it, so we decided on a more flexible solution."

New elements were added to the original plaster statue without causing it any harm.

"The idea was obvious since the Darth Vader movement has been at the centre of Ukrainians' attention in recent years," Milov said.

There are plans to build a Wi-Fi router into the statue's head so he can "communicate with the other Siths", he added.

 

A granite statue of Lenin in the heart of Kiev was famously toppled by enthusiastic protesters during the three-month revolution that ultimately ousted a Moscow-backed leadership in February 2014.

 

Symbols of Ukraine's Soviet past are also slowly disappearing across other parts of the country, although they are becoming more prominent in the pro-Russian separatist south-east.

 

The rebels' de facto capital Donetsk is now peppered with posters of Stalin, the bloodthirsty dictator who successfully sidelined his rivals in a vicious 1920s battled to take over Lenin's reins.