So DA:I will have stronghold and crafting too

[BrokenMask]

Do we really need a thread for Bioware fans and cRPG fans to argue with each other?...

[Killyox]

My standards for BioWare games has crashed since ME2, but DAI looks like it might be the best BioWare game since Origin.

 

Just by the sheer virtue of not being DA2 or ME3.

DA:O was good but it was not by any strech of imagination great. Characters were rather bland, story was bad (it was sooo cliche. Save the world blah blah blah. Like every bioware game of new). It wasn't balanced as far as skills and classes go. It was good like 7/10 tops but nothing more. DA2 very average. DA:I ? I don't care much. Witcher 3 ftw

[archangel979]

Well I found Witcher 2 to be to console like and it had console RPG combat systems. As a result I am not excited much for W3. 

[Volourn]

"The fact that Bioware Developed the game and Bis/Interplay published it, does not mean those roles were strictly exclusive. They weren't. In Fact, one need only Play BG2 to flat out *see* Black Isle's actual design property/assets being directly used in it.

BG2 features unaltered use of:

1)IWD's ( ie. Black Isle studio's) Goblins and Goblin Animations, Skeleton warriors and their animations, Mareliths, Fire Giants, Salamanders, as well as human animations, which were different from BG1's
2) IWD's (ie. Black Isle Studio's) Casting sound sets (male and female), which again, were different than BG1s.
3) IWD's (ie. Black Isle studio's) Weapons and weapon lore"

 

So, BIO developed IWD, IWD2, PST, NWN2, KOTOR2, and Witcher? Okayyyyyyy thennnnnnnnnnnnnnn............
 

"This is business. You don't just borrow assets from another company and not give them credit."

 

But, BIS/Interplay got credit. They're the publisher, their names are on the box, and they got monies for it. LMAO

\

 

But, we're getting somewhere. You finally told the truth even in a troll post. BIO developed BG and BIS/interplay published it. GAME OVER.

Edited August 5, 2014 by Volourn

[rustypup]

DA:O was good but it was not by any strech of imagination great.

 

This was my experience of the game and its expansion...  The spell combos were briefly engaging but the rest was pretty bland. Never mind the nickel-and-dime quests buried in the game itself... 

 

DA2 was, well, impressively bad... almost intentionally so.... 

 

tl;dr: Will wait for a sale on this one regardless of the hype. 

[Karkarov]

Do we really need a thread for people who think Bioware games are okay and people who think Bioware is the antichrist to argue with each other?...

I fixed your post for you.  I have yet to see anyone on this forum unabashedly love Bioware and think they can do no wrong.  I will gladly admit I like Mass Effect 1 more than any infinity engine game, period.  But even I won't try to sell you on DA2 being a great game though, it was blatantly rushed, most of the cast were annoying and idiotic, and the story read like average at best fan fiction.  The problem is this forum is populated by an army of Bioware haters (who knows why they feel that way) who basically hate everything they make for no other reason than that they made it.

[MReed]

Well, I'm pretty certain that the Bioware haters only hate anything made by Bioware recently (KOTR, for example, is generally not brought up in these discussions).

 

But yeah, there are a high proportion of folks on this forum that are very dissatisfied with the direction that Bioware has taken in the past 5-7 years -- this shouldn't be a shock, as I suspect that half the reason that this Kickstarter was so successful was backlash against Bioware (and, more specifically, DA2).

[Volourn]

"Well, I'm pretty certain that the Bioware haters only hate anything made by Bioware recently (KOTR, for example, is generally not brought up in these discussions)."

 

KOTOR is BIO's 2nd worst game that i've played. Only ME3 is potentially worse.

 

 

"half the reason that this Kickstarter was so successful was backlash against Bioware (and, more specifically, DA2)."

 

The success of the KS had   very little to do with backlash against BIO or whatever. Why do you insult Obsidian by making their KS success about a different company? L0L

[TMZuk]

Well, I'm pretty certain that the Bioware haters only hate anything made by Bioware recently (KOTR, for example, is generally not brought up in these discussions).

 

But yeah, there are a high proportion of folks on this forum that are very dissatisfied with the direction that Bioware has taken in the past 5-7 years -- this shouldn't be a shock, as I suspect that half the reason that this Kickstarter was so successful was backlash against Bioware (and, more specifically, DA2).

Exactly that. I used to love Bioware games. In my opinion, BG and BG2 are far better games than the IWD series. Also better than the original Fallout games, which I also like. Only PS:T compares.

 

The first great disappointment Bioware gave me, was NWN. Ugly, boring story, forgettable companions,  it had very little going for it, initially. User made modules, persistent worlds and CEP eventually made it a good game.

 

Jade Empire I didn't play, but that's because I don't like oriental settings, so it never appealed to me.

 

ME1 was great! By far the best of the ME games.

 

DA:O was fair. Predictable story, but the origins were fun and it had some cool companions, especially Morrigan, Shale and  Zevran. The expansion was extremely mediocre and so was the DLC.

 

DA2 was awful.

 

ME2 was a glorified shooter.

 

ME3 was in some respects an improvement over ME2, in other respects it was worse. First and foremost it was marred by the Worst Story Ever!

 

So yeah, EA has pretty much run Bioware into the gutter, as they did with Westwood and Bullfrog before that.

[BruceVC]

It seems I am one of the few people on these forums who really enjoys Bioware games, but I do prefer the older Bioware games more than the newer ones. BG 2 is my favourite RPG of all time. DA:O was good fun but not as good as BG2, saying all that I do have high hopes for DA:I. I think you guys will be pleasantly surprised when it is released, something tells me its not going to disappoint

[PrimeJunta]

Tastes are funny. My BioWare preference list would be almost exactly the opposite of yours, TMZuk.

 

Jade Empire > BG2 > NWN > ME2 > BG > DA:O > ME1. Haven't played DA2 nor finished ME3. So far ME3 seems to place somewhere between ME1 and ME2.

 

ME2 was a glorified shooter, but it was a pretty good glorified shooter. Gameplay was much better than in ME, with less obvious filler, and the writing was better overall. As to NWN, yeah the story was bad but the mechanics were pretty well implemented, there was a quite a lot of stuff to use them on even in the OC, and the toolset was excellent -- some of the expansions and mods were downright enjoyble. Hordes of the Underdark was a great dungeon crawl, Dragon Crown of Cormyr was a lot of fun, as was Darkness over Daggerford.

 

JE, BG2, and NWN are the only ones I've enjoyed playing multiple times, I never finished BG or DA:O, and only finished ME1 because the crit path was so short. 

 

I don't really get what y'all see in ME1; I thought the gameplay was clunky, the character and item mechanics bad -- I mean, REALLY bad --, and the writing hackneyed. There was really precious little game there; only, what, four actual missions, plus a lot of Fedexing and bouncing around on identical planets raiding identical bases. Pretty cool cinematics and voice acting, for sure, but if I want to see a movie I'll go see one, and as movies go ME1 wouldn't have been worth the time.

[Volourn]

Let's do this. Lists are cool.

 

NWN - BG2 - DA1 - ME1 - JE - ME2 - DA2 - BG1 - KOTOR - ME3

[Stun]

"The fact that Bioware Developed the game and Bis/Interplay published it, does not mean those roles were strictly exclusive. They weren't. In Fact, one need only Play BG2 to flat out *see* Black Isle's actual design property/assets being directly used in it.

 

BG2 features unaltered use of:

 

1)IWD's ( ie. Black Isle studio's) Goblins and Goblin Animations, Skeleton warriors and their animations, Mareliths, Fire Giants, Salamanders, as well as human animations, which were different from BG1's

2) IWD's (ie. Black Isle Studio's) Casting sound sets (male and female), which again, were different than BG1s.

3) IWD's (ie. Black Isle studio's) Weapons and weapon lore"

I completely agree. Good points, Volourn!

[archangel979]

My list:

BG2 - BG1 - ME1 - KOTOR - DA:O - JE - NWN - DA2 - ME2 - ME3 - SWTOR

[Gfted1]

BG2 + ToB - BG - NWN - NWN2

 

Finished the first two, hated the second two, never tried the rest.

[Stun]

BG2 > BG1 > DA:O > NWN* > DA2**

 

* main game only. NWN had an expansion (HoTU) who's experience I'd rank higher than DA:O, but lower than BG1.

 

** DA2 probably shouldn't be on this list as I don't view it as a game.

Edited August 5, 2014 by Stun

[Volourn]

"NWN2"

 

Unless you are Stun, BIO didn't make NWN2.

[Valmy]

The ones I played:

 

BG1 > BG2  > KOTOR > DA:O > ME1 > ME2

 

I really enjoyed ME2 as well but man both it and DA:O showed some really disturbing tendencies.  I haven't played a Bioware game since and I do not plan on it in the future, but that has a lot to do with a bad run in with EA's customer paranoia...er....service.

[BrokenMask]

Eh, what the heck, I'm bored, I'll join this bioware favourite game order bandwagon. Since from reading other people's list, my opinions seem to differ notably. Though I'll only list the games I've finished, I'm not playing Baldur's gate 2 before 1 and I haven't completed first one Haven't finished KOTOR either, I don't really find Star War that interesting setting for rpg. Jade Empire... Yeah, another game started that I haven't finished.

 

Anyway, one really big problem with modern bioware I'll write here in hope I won't get lynched: They practice writing style that is actually pretty similar to Joss Whedon's style. Aka fricking everyone snarks, even the characters who aren't snarkers. In DA 2 that reached the height of stupidity since everyone but maybe 3 in party are snarkers, and some of them are kinda jerkasses because of it. It kinda feels like bioware writers don't anymore know how to write nothing else but snarking...

 

Ahem, anyway, yeah, my preferred order:

 

ME 3 > ME 2  > DA: O >>>>>>>>>>>> ME 1 > DA 2 >>>>>>>>>>>>> ME 3's ending

 

Now in another attempt to make people not kill me, if I would include other rpgs in the list... Well, for example fallout games...

 

Fallout 1/2 > New Vegas > All bioware games > Fallout 3

 

Sooo yeaaaaaaah. This is just the bioware preferred game order. I rate pretty almost every black isle and obsidian rpg above bioware rpg. And I rate bioware rpgs in turn higher than Bethesda rpgs.

 

ME 3 does have lot of problems besides the ending(like the fact there too few enemy types, no bosses, some story related stupidity, too many callbacks to fan favourite stuff etc), but gameplay and story was fun enough until pretentiousness of the ending.  Really, main reason its on the top is that I think it had best gameplay out of ME games.*shrugs*

 

ME 2 was better than ME 1 since it stopped pretending its more of rpg than shooter, had much less padding and no repeated bunkers infinitely, no driving around blank landscape in bounciest land vehicle ever, etc. Besides the gameplay in ME 3 being better, ME 2 should probably be better game overall, but I like ME 3 better for some reason.*shrugs*

 

Hmm, DA:O should probably be higher... I do admit that as rpg it is better than ME 2 and 3.*shrugs* Wait, now I remember why its lower <_< I didn't like party members much. Seriously, I kinda rate bioware rpgs based on how much I like characters('cause plotwise they are even more similar to each other than rpgs are in general to each other), so games with party members I enjoy(even if its just one or two) rate much higher unless I don't like the gameplay enough. I mean, yeah, they were okay, Sten and Shale are probably my favourites of that bunch, I don't dislike anyone, but nobody in retrospect stood out to me as favourite rpg party members or even as particularly memorable. Still gameplay was good, and there was quite nice quest design for most part.

 

ME 1 was pretty fun on first playthough, but every playthrough after that is painful since sidequests suck and enviroments are pretty bland, plus every alien squadmates in first game... Well, Liara is attempt at awkward cutie who ends up being unnaturally awkward in really bad way, Garrus is just there to show that not every turian fits codex stereotype... Despite the stereotype never being even hammered in the game. Same about Wrex, 'cept that every other krogan does act like the stereotype. Tali on other hand exists as quarian culture exposition machine <_< Characterization was better in later games. It was most rpg out of all ME games combat wise, but it just didn't work much for me.

 

DA 2 would have been good enough if they hadn't rushed it or at least not had reused same enviroments over and over, there were never unique locations... Though I doubt they would have made mage party members make sense since that seems to have been writing issue instead of rushing thing. Also, yeah, party members were kinda... "Annoying". I don't know if writing also suffered because the game was rushed, but I think game would be at least enjoyable if every single cave didn't look exactly the same... Would be interesting to know whether I would rate game lower or higher than ME 1 if DA 2 had actually good gameplay(enemy encounter design is just bad... Who the heck thought waves of enemies coming out of nowhere was a good idea?) and good environment design, but still had pretty horrible writing.

 

ME 3's ending is just facepalm worthy ...  But somehow it doesn't actually ruin my experience of the game, hence why its seperately there. I guess that is cheating xP But yaeh, its just really bad attempt at being artsy that makes no sense. I don't get why bioware didn't have trilogy at least somewhat thought out when they made first game... I mean, if they were planning to make a trilogy all along, they should have done planning during the first game so they know what to foreshadow and crap, the reapers' motivation crap came out of nowhere and star child is just stupid.

Edited August 5, 2014 by BrokenMask

[Karkarov]

I don't really get what y'all see in ME1; I thought the gameplay was clunky, the character and item mechanics bad -- I mean, REALLY bad --, and the writing hackneyed. There was really precious little game there; only, what, four actual missions, plus a lot of Fedexing and bouncing around on identical planets raiding identical bases. Pretty cool cinematics and voice acting, for sure, but if I want to see a movie I'll go see one, and as movies go ME1 wouldn't have been worth the time.

Harsh man.  The mechanics were fine, you just had to play it like an RPG, not a shooter.  Once you understood how the game played and worked it wasn't that bad.  That being said I obviously mastered the mechanics and got used to it so I guess it is a little less of an issue to me.  Writing wise I thought it was great.  It is sort of a B but not quite A tier Sci Fi movie thing, it is mostly serious but when it gets cheesy it does so in a tasteful and funny way.  They also nailed the setting, which I feel they lost some touch with in ME2 and 3.

 

So Bioware game rating train huh.... uh let's see....

 

From best to worst:  ME1, ME2, BG2, DA:O, ME3, KotOR, BG, NWN (only thanks to modders though), JE, SWTOR (I guess it counts even if it is an MMO), and DA2.

 

Bear in mind NWN is where I start considering the games "average to okay" and DA2 is the one Bioware game I consider "okay at best".  It is a pretty weak game and definitely the worst they ever made short of things like MDK2 or other things I never played.

Edited August 5, 2014 by Karkarov

[Lephys]

@BrokenMask,

 

You're not alone. I kind of love the sheer gameplay of ME3. I even enjoyed all the continuity/carry-over stuff from the first two games (regardless of the fact that the content, itself, obviously could've been more interesting, etc.). I basically enjoyed the crap out of ME3 (including the multiplayer co-op mode) all the way up until about the last 5 minutes.

[Malekith]

From best to worst: BG2, BG1, DA:O, NWN, DA2

 

From the rest, i gave up after a few hours on KOTOR, JE and ME1, and didn't bother with the rest.

While that means that i found the games i didn't finish bad, it doesn't automaticaly means that i found NWN and DA2 any better,at least as story-writing goes,just the gameplay was less annoying so i managed to finish them.

BG1 is where i I start considering the games "average to okay", anything below DA:O i consider bad.

[ShadySands]

List!

 

BG2

ME2

JE

DA1

NWN

KOTOR

SWTOR

ME3

Shattered Steel

BG1

ME1

MDK2

DA2

Edited August 5, 2014 by ShadySands

[Hiro Protagonist II]

BG1, BG2, NWN, DA:O, KOTOR.

 

I include all expansions in my list. Saw the decline happening in Bioware from NWN OC (2002). KOTOR (2003) cemented that decline for me and didn't buy any more games from them for some years. Their marketing fooled me into thinking DA:O (2009) was a spiritual successor to BG. Yeah, that was the last game I bought from them. I prefer low level parties which is why I like and play BG1 more than BG2 as well as many other reasons for liking BG1.

[Leferd]

Mass Effect's presentation was really nice. I liked the homage to 80's style sci-fi movies - especially the film grain and film noire nods to Blade Runner. The combat was substandard and the absurd use of recycled levels was terrible though. Overall, it was really a fun and enjoyable game.

 

BG2

KotOR - props to Bio. They got Star Wars right.

BG

Mass Effect

Jade Empire

Dragon Age

Mass Effect 2

 

I only barely got into Kirkwall for DA2 and got a couple of hours into ME3. NWN was just terrible - HATE -hated it so much.

 

I can see why SWTOR got Ray and Greg fired/pressured out by EA. A shame, as without the Doctors, BioWare, Black Isle, and Obsidian wouldn't be where they are now.

 

Not interested in DAI at all.