European Parliamentary Elections results, major concern?

[Nepenthe]

To dp, for the "far right" to succeed, it has to offer something also to moderates, that is the nature of democracy. It isn't poverty and illiterates that empower it, it is the stagnation of established political parties and becoming the "only alternative" to whatever, capitulation to a higher level of corruption.

 

Again, anecdotal, but as some of you know, I worked as a lobbyist before I borderline burned out and left for a country: EU legislative process = horror

[Rosbjerg]

I'd like to point out - for a second time - that while there are some actually far-right parties in the mix, some others are getting painted as "far right" just because it's "convenient" (either politically or out of laziness)

 

In much the same way more conservative countries use Socialism yeah, it's an easy "demonizer". Ironically a lot of these "fascist / right wing" parties are basically modern worker parties with a conglomerate of opposing opinions patches together into some horrific (to the educated voter) "fit all, please none" hybrid.

 

In fact I often noticed - Paternal Dictatorship/Oligarchy is the upper classes' go-to tyranny, Communism is the lower class' and Liberal Socialism with a strong blend of nationalism (ie budding Fascism) is the middle class'.

[213374U]

What most people in the EU want is a free internal market with no need for a passport to travel from one country to the next. A simple common constitution which states what rights the citizen have and a european court that upholds it, coupled with a parliament that passes the laws. A nightwatcher's commonwealth more or less. Everything from taxes to elderly care and national defense would be up to the individual states. 

Note that you made no mention of a common currency. How shrewd.

 

Not quite the way it seems to be going, anyway.

[JadedWolf]

The European Parliamentary elections to me represent everything that's wrong with Europe - you get to vote for a very weak parliament (the European Commission is much more important, but we don't get to vote directly for it) with your only choice being local parties (it's a European election, why are there no European parties? it makes no sense). In the Netherlands, we have 9 different parties all vying for the 26 seats we get to fill. Then when these parties get a few seats, they disappear in the faceless European blocks which I am sure most Europeans couldn't even name. At the very least, the parties of these blocks could try to have a common political program for voters to browse before the election, so that they would actually know what they are voting for in reality.

 

How can you expect anyone to be enthusiastic about this parliament?

 

As for the rise of the anti-Europe parties and the reasons behind it. Sure there is a lot of misinformation going about when it comes to Europe coming from anti-Europe parties, but the real problem is the complete inability of the political establishment to account for their actions. It's up to them to be more transparent and to find ways to involve people in Europe so that they feel that Europe is not just a project for multinationals and the elite but for everyone in Europe. Sadly, looking at the political parties in my own countries, local parties dare not even speak out too openly in favour of Europe fearing a backlash from the electorate, so they prefer to speak critically of Europe while behind the scenes they sign at the dotted line every single time.

 

I'm actually very much in favour of European cooperation but when I imagine a union of cooperating European states this certainly isn't what I would have in mind.

[Zoraptor]

I'd like to point out - for a second time - that while there are some actually far-right parties in the mix, some others are getting painted as "far right" just because it's "convenient" (either politically or out of laziness)

 

I have some sympathy for that labelling to be honest, as there simply isn't a, er, simple term for the phenomenon. If you want a precise description you have to write/ say half a paragraph to get anything approaching accurate.

 

Part of the problem is that you have the traditional right wing parties that are almost to a man True EU Believers so there has to be some differentiation from them, but then anything to the right of those right wing trad parties has to be at least further right. Eurosceptic is a bit better, but has the baggage of being saddled with association both with parties that self identify themselves as such but then do/ achieve nothing about it for years on end, as with the tories in the UK, and with including the more loony and genuinely far right fringe, plus, depending on whether it's a major concern or not, anti EU left wing groups as well. And 'nationalism' has picked up a lot of baggage as well, unfortunate because little n nationalist is basically what a lot of those labelled as far right are. Though again, in some ways even parties like Syriza in Greece are little n nationalists for these purposes.

 

As a phenomenon the current electoral radicalism is understandable. You had 150+ years of old definition nationalism in Europe that has resulted in the existence as (theoretically at least) independent countries of most of the current members of the EU. The EU is, fundamentally and by its very design, not nationalist and antithetical to nationalism- it's designed as a supra national governmental entity and has been since its inception as the EU. It's going against the flow of history.

[Wrath of Dagon]

Looks to me like the European voters have finally realized the establishment has been selling them out for years.

[Gromnir]

 

how odd. bruce is all concerned 'bout treatment 'o women on message boards, but potential treatment o' 1 billion women doesn't seem to concern him? curious. Hindutva has some serious implications for women, gays and various minority groups (ethnic and or religious) w/i india.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

Meh, not playing white saviour to all those poor oppressed women in third world countries while the first world is also far from being problem-free is pretty much the best thing one can do in his situation, methinks.

 

we think white savior is kinda amusing, but bruce has championed as white knight for women on message boards and seems very concerned with race issues in parts of world other than south africa.  bjp taking over in india is gonna affect far more lives than possible eu changes. given bruce's other posts he obviously can't deride the white savior with any genuine vigor. so, as bruce aint eu himself, why the concern for eu when india changes is potential more significant?

 

am also gonna suggest that the first/second/third world distinctions is inherent flawed. is a cold war holdover that has increasingly suspect value, particular as we move towards increasing globalization. heck, utilizing some o' the bizarre new methodologies for dividing  nations into 1st, second and third world, we has seen south africa gets 3rd world label more than once. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Leferd]

Go India.

 

http://youtu.be/aZDYsSOngik

[BruceVC]

 

 

how odd. bruce is all concerned 'bout treatment 'o women on message boards, but potential treatment o' 1 billion women doesn't seem to concern him? curious. Hindutva has some serious implications for women, gays and various minority groups (ethnic and or religious) w/i india.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

Meh, not playing white saviour to all those poor oppressed women in third world countries while the first world is also far from being problem-free is pretty much the best thing one can do in his situation, methinks.

 

we think white savior is kinda amusing, but bruce has championed as white knight for women on message boards and seems very concerned with race issues in parts of world other than south africa.  bjp taking over in india is gonna affect far more lives than possible eu changes. given bruce's other posts he obviously can't deride the white savior with any genuine vigor. so, as bruce aint eu himself, why the concern for eu when india changes is potential more significant?

 

am also gonna suggest that the first/second/third world distinctions is inherent flawed. is a cold war holdover that has increasingly suspect value, particular as we move towards increasing globalization. heck, utilizing some o' the bizarre new methodologies for dividing  nations into 1st, second and third world, we has seen south africa gets 3rd world label more than once. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

Gromnir whatever you have been smoking I want some

 

Your assessment of me and the why I support issues of social justice seems so horribly flawed I would normally assume that this can't be you posting, you are normally so astute

 

I care about all social justice issues throughout the world but I can't discuss everything all the time, sorry about that  Gromnir. Also since when did I say I don't care about racism in South Africa? When did I even suggest anything remotely like that?

 

Also from an economic global  perspective the EU is more important than India, a collapse of the EU would have much greater ramifications for the world than a collapse of India, sorry I keep suggesting that Gromnir but this is just the reality of the global economy.

[HoonDing]

Looks to me like the European voters have finally realized the establishment has been selling them out for years.

Only solution is to dissolve and only keep the European bleeding beating heart: the Benelux.

[JadedWolf]

 

Looks to me like the European voters have finally realized the establishment has been selling them out for years.

Only solution is to dissolve and only keep the European bleeding beating heart: the Benelux.

 

 

If we're talking fantasy dissolutions, I could see a slimmed down union of Germany, Benelux, Scandinavia and Finland working. I guess Austria could come in too, if they promise to behave.

 

It won't happen anytime soon though, the sheer amount of money involved in dissolving the E.U. at this point is enough incentive for politicians to keep the whole thing together even when they may not support the European project in their hearts.

[Nepenthe]

Yeah, it would be Nelux after brussels gets gutted via running down the european institutions.

[Azdeus]

I'm glad atleast Germany managed to get some Pirates voted in, it's the most pressing concern for me out of them all.

Edited May 27, 2014 by Azdeus

[Hassat Hunter]

Well, with Germany getting the largest part of the parlement, and them being pretty much the only heavy pro-EU country in the EU... nice corrupt house of cards.

 

In the Netherlands, known for being social and multi-cultural, more and more xenophobia appears, led mostly by reports of crime being commited by people from Marocco, or people from Bulgaria coming her, claim money, and just run with it... or Bulgarian organised criminels stealing her and then just returning home, avoiding justice. What good is the EU if it's members can just do that?

 

Despite that, most people still voted pro-EU, since most people simply voted as an extension for local politics (we hate party X and Y of the current government so we pick opposition party Z, and don't care about the politics of Europe doing that at all). You can see the same in all other countries. That really tells that this is pretty much a farce, an overview how local politics do in the eyes of the citizens instead of a true vote for Europa/EU.

 

I personally would also want the EU to dissolve (but not enough to vote PVV, I voted another anti-Euro party). It's incoming treaty with the US is very very worrisome. I would wish we would be less their lapdog dammit. The EU has no control of it's money, it's ability to simply give Ukrain billions from god-knows-where already shows there's no control on it at all what happens with our money. More and more money needs to be pumped in the weak countries added in, and it doesn't look that will end even if the crisis will. It doesn't seem particularly viable or life-stable. And yet we drag the dead horse on and on, because it dying would be so costly. The question is; didn't we already pay more to keep it artificially alive than dying would ever do? That's the question...

[Nepenthe]

From the farce department, the guy who got most votes (eu elections in Finland are on a single nationwide list) announced today that he's going to attempt to hecome the next prime minister of Finland, ie. not spend a single day representing the people who voted for him.

[Barothmuk]

I care about all social justice issues throughout the world but I can't discuss everything all the time.

Seeing that you're supporting India (a country with one of the greatest gaps between rich and poor) shifting even further to the right-wing, I find that hard to believe.

Edited May 27, 2014 by Barothmuk

[Meshugger]

 

What most people in the EU want is a free internal market with no need for a passport to travel from one country to the next. A simple common constitution which states what rights the citizen have and a european court that upholds it, coupled with a parliament that passes the laws. A nightwatcher's commonwealth more or less. Everything from taxes to elderly care and national defense would be up to the individual states. 

Note that you made no mention of a common currency. How shrewd.

 

Not quite the way it seems to be going, anyway.

 

 

Took someone long enough. With credit cards, the local currency doesn't really matter that much in the long run.

 

I do hate the TATD though.

[BruceVC]

 

I care about all social justice issues throughout the world but I can't discuss everything all the time.

Seeing that you're supporting India (a country with one of the greatest gaps between rich and poor) shifting even further to the right-wing, I find that hard to believe.

 

 

Oh no believe it, trust me. I do take issues of social justice very seriously.

 

But just explain to me why if I think that India is a relevant  global economy that means I don't care about social justice issues or the inequality gap that is prevalent in most countries? I'm missing the connection 

[Monte Carlo]

 

 

I am interested in what people think would improve the EU as a whole.

 

We could start by abolishing it.

 

Edited May 27, 2014 by Monte Carlo

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

I am interested in what people think would improve the EU as a whole.

 

We could start by abolishing it.

 

 

 

Really Monte? Maybe you could give some more details around why you feel like that . That statement is a serious one. Would you prefer Europe went back to days where all countries were independent?

[Monte Carlo]

Yes, I would prefer an independent Europe of nations with a strong trading partnership and defence / diplomatic alliances.

 

The once-dominant issue of subsidiarity (that decisions should always be taken locally, at the lowest appropriate level) went out of the window years ago. We are run by people we didn't vote for. The last time anyone got a say on this was the 1970s. And freedom is like water: it always finds it's own level. The votes over the weekend were a massive protest against 'ever-closer union.'

 

Let me give you an example that isn't the usual Immigration-based concern (although it's a core issue). A few years ago the UK Government wanted to lower the fuel duty escalator for people in rural areas, specifically the more remote parts of Scotland. Because those areas don't get much in the way of public transport infrastructure, and rely on their own vehicles, it seemed eminently fair to give them a tax break on fuel prices.

 

Turns out it was illegal.

 

An EU directive stated that this sort of tax break was inconsistent with EU competition law. And do you know what our Govt did? Just shrugged.

 

"There's nothing we can do."

 

Rolled over. Surrendered to a bunch of unaccountable buffoons in Brussels. Now if they're like that over fuel duty what do you think they are like over immigration or EU arrest warrants (get caught speeding in Poland? ARREST WARRANT!) or taxation?

 

Useless is the answer. It's time to roll the whole thing back and let voters connect to their representatives properly. Supranational entities always end up the same - rules by a clique more interested in spreading their power than using it to support those they purport to represent.

[BruceVC]

Yes, I would prefer an independent Europe of nations with a strong trading partnership and defence / diplomatic alliances.

 

The once-dominant issue of subsidiarity (that decisions should always be taken locally, at the lowest appropriate level) went out of the window years ago. We are run by people we didn't vote for. The last time anyone got a say on this was the 1970s. And freedom is like water: it always finds it's own level. The votes over the weekend were a massive protest against 'ever-closer union.'

 

Let me give you an example that isn't the usual Immigration-based concern (although it's a core issue). A few years ago the UK Government wanted to lower the fuel duty escalator for people in rural areas, specifically the more remote parts of Scotland. Because those areas don't get much in the way of public transport infrastructure, and rely on their own vehicles, it seemed eminently fair to give them a tax break on fuel prices.

 

Turns out it was illegal.

 

An EU directive stated that this sort of tax break was inconsistent with EU competition law. And do you know what our Govt did? Just shrugged.

 

"There's nothing we can do."

 

Rolled over. Surrendered to a bunch of unaccountable buffoons in Brussels. Now if they're like that over fuel duty what do you think they are like over immigration or EU arrest warrants (get caught speeding in Poland? ARREST WARRANT!) or taxation?

 

Useless is the answer. It's time to roll the whole thing back and let voters connect to their representatives properly. Supranational entities always end up the same - rules by a clique more interested in spreading their power than using it to support those they purport to represent.

 

You make some compelling and interesting  points Monte, I am interested in someone on these forums posting what they like about the EU at the moment. Not what they want changed or is flawed but just what is great about being in the EU

[Monte Carlo]

Freedom of movement is fantastic. But once poorer countries were admitted it was inevitable that swathes of people would choose that freedom of movement to claim benefits in richer countries.

 

Add to that the near-collapse of the Euro and a global Depression and you can see why things have gone the way they have.

[Barothmuk]

But just explain to me why if I think that India is a relevant  global economy that means I don't care about social justice issues or the inequality gap that is prevalent in most countries?

You're throwing support behind Modi who is part of the right-wing, ultra-nationalist ("Selfless Service to Motherland"), populist, paramilitary, traditionalist Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh.

 

People often throw around the label "fascist" quite liberally but in the case of the R.S.S it is, at the very least, not totally out of the question.

[HoonDing]