The $4.0m Stretch Goal - Enhancing the Whole Game

[600lbpanther]

I am looking for some detailed information on what the statement "use every dollar between $3.5m and $4m to enhance the game." actually entails. 

• "After much team deliberation we have one final ultimate stretch goal. At $4.0m we will be enhancing the whole game. We will use live instrumentation for the soundtrack, add developer in-game commentary, and use every dollar between $3.5m and $4m to enhance the game." - https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/obsidian/project-eternity

Of course, I can use my imagination and state that "animations will be more life-life, backgrounds will be more detailed, or combat will be more refined" but how does one actually measure those?  This is not an expansion where we can see a before and after product.  It seems to be a goal that is a little harder to measure or gage the impact of than other goals listed.  (i.e. - Stretch Goal:  Stronghold or Megadungeon.  We can visit our stronghold in game.  We can fight our way through the megadungeon in game.)  

 

If someone could be kind enough to point me to a link / video which addresses what actually will be enhanced and if it can actually be measured I would appreciate it. Thanks!

[Fluff]

There really isn't, because as you mentioned it isn't something you can gauge. You can't really say "this is better" when there isn't a before to compare the after to.

We just have to trust that the money is actually going towards making the game better than it would have been without the money.

 

I don't believe the money has any specific use like enhancing ONLY such and such features, I believe it's more so just adding an extra level of polish and quality to everything they couldn't have done otherwise. Although I could be wrong and have missed an article or forum post somewhere stating otherwise.

[Pipyui]

I don't mean to be that guy, but I don't think the $4 million stretchgoal really meant anything at all - only that Obsidian needed to put something out there to get more funding, when they weren't confident in putting more features in within a reasonable deadline.  As far as we've been told, all funding from the Kickstarter goes towards production of Pillars of Eternity - is it fair to say that had Obsidian made $3.8 million, $300,000 would have been thrown out the window?

 

I'm not bitter about it, but that last stretchgoal was just a marketing gimmick; all funding was to go into making Pillars of Eternity a (better) game anyway.

[The Mist Devil]

Cats, there was to be cats everywhere.

[Bryy]

I don't mean to be that guy, but I don't think the $4 million stretchgoal really meant anything at all - only that Obsidian needed to put something out there to get more funding, when they weren't confident in putting more features in within a reasonable deadline.

Yeah, they needed to put something out there. I think at the most base level, we can assume that it means they will use that to improve the areas that are already done, plus the music and the commentary which was stated.

[Messier-31]

I gotta agree with Pipyui. After all what is 4 mil $ nowadays for a company? Obsidian asked for a goal worth 1,1 mil $ but the facts are that if you want to do something properly you need to have cash to back it up. So here's hopin' that this sudden money shot helps this game a lot. It's a win-win situation, both for the developers and the backers (gamers).

 

Oh, and by the way, you gotta remember that if you add PayPal and other "late" backers to the equation (ones like Fluff) there is something about 4,5 mil $ total.

[Labadal]

Maybe they could afford to put a few more people on the project? Who knows? Or maybe that money means they can work on the game a bit longer? Giving them a longer "final touches" period?

[Rosenkrantz]

Maybe they could afford to put a few more people on the project? Who knows? Or maybe that money means they can work on the game a bit longer? Giving them a longer "final touches" period?

My guess exactly. More people on the job means you can get more done within the same timeframe.

[Fluff]

I gotta agree with Pipyui. After all what is 4 mil $ nowadays for a company? Obsidian asked for a goal worth 1,1 mil $ but the facts are that if you want to do something properly you need to have cash to back it up. So here's hopin' that this sudden money shot helps this game a lot. It's a win-win situation, both for the developers and the backers (gamers).

 

Oh, and by the way, you gotta remember that if you add PayPal and other "late" backers to the equation (ones like Fluff) there is something about 4,5 mil $ total.

 

I would have backed it sooner if I would have known about the Kickstarter. </3

As somewhat of a game perfectionist it actually kind of bugs me not having a kickstarter badge even though it does nothing.

 

 It'd be interesting though to see just how much they've earned post Kickstarter though because I hadn't even taken that into consideration for some reason.

[BrainMuncher]

 

I am looking for some detailed information on what the statement "use every dollar between $3.5m and $4m to enhance the game." actually entails.

 

Imagine an early planning session.

 

"This all looks great guys but we need to make some cuts. This plan is about 500k over budget, so, what can we leave out?"

 

Now imagine what those things are that were cut in the imaginary planning meeting. Those things are what were funded by the $4M stretch goal.

 

 

Although it probably wouldn't happen all at once like that. I imagine someone sitting down "ok we have this much to spend on voice acting, how should we make best use of that?". Then they end up deciding to voice 20 selected characters, whereas with less money they may have had enough for only 15, or whatever. Just little bits shaved off here and there that add up to a lot when combined.

Edited April 7, 2014 by BrainMuncher

[Chaos Theory]

I'm pretty sure everything over 3.5 mil went to pizza, some AI in Cozumel and an official Obsidian party wagon-- probably some vintage VW bus with a big picture of Feargus on the front.  He's always "coming atcha". 

Edited April 7, 2014 by Chaos Theory

[AwesomeOcelot]

I think it meant they'll spend more time on a lot of the game, too many things to list. It can be measured in man hours, but not by what's in the game. Obsidian probably will be able to give numerous examples of what they did extra using that time.

Edited April 7, 2014 by AwesomeOcelot

[Sabotin]

Maybe it's just so that they can get a bonus one time . I'd guess outsourcing stuff would also qualify, like this Paradox thing and those wilderness areas?

[Jarrakul]

So, that stretch goal doesn't mean anything specific, really. Or anything at all. But it does communicate the idea that sometimes added features aren't the way to go. Sometimes you just need more money to, well, make the game generally better. The specific stretch goal isn't meaningful in and of itself, but it does serve as a reminded that money doesn't have to go into additional features, and that some of it probably shouldn't.

[rjshae]

IIRC, there were some people at the time who complained that the funding was too focused on implementing specific stretch goals. This is what we got as a result.

[Lephys]

Yeah, I don't think it's a gimmick, or doesn't mean anything. It's a funding goal. I think some people are assuming that all the stretch goals aren't basically just "here's what we can and will do if we reach this money amount."

 

And with this one, they specifically stated, in that quote in the OP, that they will use every dollar between 3.5mil and 4-mil to enhance the game. Sure, the goal was set at 4mil. That's like saying "We figure that, to improve all the things we'd like by a significant notch, we'll need $500,000 more. So, from this point on, money goes toward raising the ceiling for existing game components, rather than adding new ones, and if we hit 4mil, we'll have raised the ceiling on pretty much everything across the board."

 

That's all it is. Were there 20 weapon types? Now there are more than that! Maybe there'll be more quests in each area, and/or more involved quests, etc. That sort of thing. Every area of the project gets a bonus, pretty much, is what it means. At 4 million.

 

Instead of saying "New goal is 3.6mil, and we'll improve some stuff! At 3.7mil, we'll improve MORE stuff!" and so on, they just went ahead and set it at 4mil.

 

It's not really necessary to pretend it's a meaningless or nonsensical goal, just because it's not some very specific, tangible thing. How can you measure any of the stretch goals, for that matter? How do you know there wasn't already going to be a stronghold in the game, and they just CLAIMED there wasn't so you'd give them more money in order to "guarantee" its existence? You don't. We just have to take their word for it that they actually spent that extra money, in the budget, on paying people and using resources to implement a stronghold. OR paranoidly be super suspicious of them. Heh...

 

Come to think of it... how do we know Obsidian didn't just have 5 million dollars lying around with which to make a game, and they just launched a Kickstarter project in order to get as much money as they could up-front? o_o!!!

Edited April 8, 2014 by Lephys

[600lbpanther]

• You can never defeat the "what if" argument. 

Goals that cannot be measured are not good goals and in some cases might not be considered goals at all.

Edited April 8, 2014 by 600lbpanther

[rjshae]

Yeah, I don't think it's a gimmick, or doesn't mean anything. It's a funding goal. I think some people are assuming that all the stretch goals aren't basically just "here's what we can and will do if we reach this money amount."

 

And with this one, they specifically stated, in that quote in the OP, that they will use every dollar between 3.5mil and 4-mil to enhance the game. Sure, the goal was set at 4mil. That's like saying "We figure that, to improve all the things we'd like by a significant notch, we'll need $500,000 more. So, from this point on, money goes toward raising the ceiling for existing game components, rather than adding new ones, and if we hit 4mil, we'll have raised the ceiling on pretty much everything across the board."

 

Well, I suspect the expectation by most contributors is that every dollar above the minimum needed to fund the Kickstarter will be used to improve and enhance the game. Thus it is not really a new goal; it's a goal to "not add anything new".  For the love of all things holy, make us stop adding new features. Pleassseee...

[Amentep]

Egads, I didn't realize I'd walked into an internal audit.

 

*backs away slowly*

 

Seriously, I pledged money because I wanted to see Obsidian make an isometric real-time with pause fantasy RPG. I don't expect them to pull out the ledgers and show exactly where every dollar went. If I didn't trust them to make the game and be good stewards of my pledge...I wouldn't have pledged.

 

YMMV of course.

[Hassat Hunter]

It means... "For this money we wont give you promises we can't keep" (every other kickstarter)

 

And I am pretty sure the OP is a troll and knows damn well what the 4M goal is, based on previous posts...

Edited April 8, 2014 by Hassat Hunter

[600lbpanther]

Egads, I didn't realize I'd walked into an internal audit.

 

*backs away slowly*

 

Seriously, I pledged money because I wanted to see Obsidian make an isometric real-time with pause fantasy RPG. I don't expect them to pull out the ledgers and show exactly where every dollar went. If I didn't trust them to make the game and be good stewards of my pledge...I wouldn't have pledged.

 

YMMV of course.

 

A simple question for a little elaboration on where about $500,000 dollars (roughly 1/8th of the game) is going too is all I asked.

You would think that by the statement "After much team deliberation we have one final ultimate stretch goal. At $4.0m we will be enhancing the whole game." there would be a little more information at this point in time. 

 

If you are going to take my position, disregard certain key points of it and instead present a superficially similar position Y, and then attack position Y, concluding that X is false/incorrect/flawed well... we have a name for that type of argument.

Edited April 8, 2014 by 600lbpanther

[Elerond]

All the stretch goals where very high handed and any of them didn't actually gave any details what they actually add in game and especially details how money will be spent. Only thing that Obsidian promised in those stretch goals were that one or two features will in all likelihood be in the game.

 

So all of the stretch goals were more or less things to make people give more money to make game, without give much details how that money will be spent exactly (because nobody even Obsidian didn't actually at that time know where money will be spent exactly). 

 

Money from last stretch goal could for example go in additional members in QA team to ensure that game is bug free and there is no scripting failures and that there is no routes that cause story progress become illogical, etc..

 

And all stretch goals were goals because they were new target sum to collect, not because they added new features/perks/content/etc.. 

 

I would like point out that in software project it's very hard to pinpoint where money actually goes as all money is used to hire people do stuff in game, but they nearly never do only one thing in project and their level of expertise depends from task what they do and which can cause that more difficult and therefore in theoretically more expensive tasks take less their time than some easier tasks, which make it quite hard to tell how much money each given task will actually cost beforehand.

 

I would like also point out that sometimes it isn't wise to promise specific features as there can come unexpected surprises on the way that causes that you can't implement those features, like for example what happened to Larian with their Divinity: Original Sin kickstarter, where they promised a feature which implementation they though would not take that much extra effort, but during development they realized that nature of their game and other more important features in game will make implementation of that feature much more complicate than they though during kickstarter and that they don't have time or money to make that feature to work which lead on decision that they will scratch that feature off from the project which of course is problematic thing to do as they promised to do that feature in one of their KS stretch goals, which means that they have to broke their promises for their backers and make themselves liable to backslash, refund ask and even legal suits, if they can't give good enough explanation why feature needed to be scratched. 

 

So specific features in stretch goals are usually good way to get people to give more money for project, but one should be careful what one promises as those promise can cause problems for one's actual project, which is reason why more ambiguous promises are better even though they probably bring less money for project, as they also have much smaller change to cause problems for the project.

[Chaos Theory]

I think some of you are misinterpreting this whole Kickstarter thing...  We gave them money with the hope that they would make a game we want, and despite the expectation that we would eventually get a game, there really is no consequence (other than loss of trust) or recourse if that game is never finished or if stretch goals are not obtained.  Backers take a risk every time they back something, and so far things have been going well for the "major" game projects.  KS remains in its honeymoon phase as a result, for now...

 

As for actual numbers on what's being spent where, that's really none of our business.  (*shrugs*)

 

I have raised some eyebrows at a few projects I've backed (suddenly moving into new shiny offices right after KS, for instance) but we have no control over how they allocate their money.  I'm more curious how the fanbase will react if PE retail sales do as well as anticipated yet Obsidian comes back for another Kickstarter.

Edited April 8, 2014 by Chaos Theory

[600lbpanther]

Thank-you Elerond for your thoughtful post. 

__________________________________________________

 

I am not trying to hold anyone accountable.  I was hoping someone had some more information on a topic that hasn't been explored as much as romance or infinite arrows.

 

When I first asked the question it was more of a clarifying question as to whether or not I missed an update that explained the last stretch goal.

If one looks at the stretch goal map and takes:

 

• $1.5million to $2 million 

          or

• $2 million to $2.5 million 

          or

• $2.5 million to $3 million

The game becomes a very different game with those new stretch goals.  You do not get detailed information with each new stretch goal but you get specific global changes (i.e. Paladins, Stronghold, etc.) with each new stretch goal listed.   It just struck me that the change from $3.5 million to $4 million would be a significant update to the game as well and there would be some mention as to what enhancements would actually be in the game regardless of how general they would be.

 

It seems nobody knows what exactly "enhancing the game" means and that's fine.  We all have guesses and assumptions and likelihoods and possiblys and one is as good as another at this point. 

 

[Amentep]

If you are going to take my position, disregard certain key points of it and instead present a superficially similar position Y, and then attack position Y, concluding that X is false/incorrect/flawed well... we have a name for that type of argument.

Or you could look at what I did which was to use your post to express my own feelings without regard to yours; hence why I said YMMV (and obviously it does).

 

Unless you meant the audit bit, which was a bit of a joke as I elaborate in my own position (without intending to devalue yours) that I don't really need - as a backer - an explanation for this stretch goal.

 

YMMV, of course.