General Forum Input around life

[BruceVC]

Hi All

 

Sometimes we like to ask for general advice around personal issues or just get the advice of people on these forums. I generally ask my RL friends for serious advice but there are times when its interesting to the opinions of our erudite members. So I thought a thread dedicated to people wanting to pose questions to the community might be appropriate

 

Let me start with with the problem I have that I would like some input on

 

 

There is a women in my office who does the office admin, she is in her late 40's and her and I get on really well. But she is obese, very overweight. Whenever I'm at the office I see her eating junk food and when we go for business unit lunches or dinners she eats whatever she wants and its all large and unhealthy portions

 

In the last 6 months she has been hospitalized twice for eating related reasons. She is literally "eating herself death".

 

Now I want to say something to her in a polite and dimdiplomaticy about her eating habits, she has a 8 year daughter who she obviously loves and my view is even if she claims its her life and she can do what she wants she has a resresponsibility her daughter and family

 

So here is my dilemma, do you think I should say something and if so how do I approach her? No one else in my office wants to get involved for a variety of reasons but my view is if she suddenly drops dead and we all go to her funeral what are we all going to say and think? Surly we should say something in a way that doesn't embarrass her.

 

My advice wouldn't be draconian, she just needs to cut out all the junk food I see her eating and order something healthy when she orders from our canteen? Yes she could still eat unhealthily at home but her husband and daughter are at home so I imagine she is more reserved.

 

Anyway any input would be great. Finally I am only thinking of saying anything because I am concerned about her. There is no surreptitious motive behind me wanting to help her

 

 

 

[obyknven]

Natural selection, everything is ok.

[Monte Carlo]

I think you should mind your own business.

[HoonDing]

I think you should mind your own business.

Wouldn't want to be jumped by her, after all.

[IndiraLightfoot]

BruceVC: This was a difficult one, but I'm pretty sure she knows, at least half-deep-down, how bad it is, especially after having been hospitalised for similar reasons. The crux is, I don't think it would make much of a difference if you talked to her, unless you two knew each other extremely well, going back a long time, etc. Obviously, if nobody reacts around her, and no professionals are given her strong advice, you would need to step in, more like a life-safer, but from what you describe, I wouldn't do it, I think.

[Bartimaeus]

Given that she's already been to the hospital at least twice that you know of, I'm pretty sure she knows. A person has to try and help themselves before others can help them, I think. I know this because it very much applies to me in some ways, (though not for food related reasons). Best of luck, Bruce.

Edited April 3, 2014 by Bartimaeus

[BruceVC]

I think you should mind your own business.

 

So you have never tried to help someone in your life who is on a destructive course?

BruceVC: This was a difficult one, but I'm pretty sure she knows, at least half-deep-down, how bad it is, especially after having been hospitalised for similar reasons. The crux is, I don't think it would make much of a difference if you talked to her, unless you two knew each other extremely well, going back a long time, etc. Obviously, if nobody reacts around her, and no professionals are given her strong advice, you would need to step in, more like a life-safer, but from what you describe, I wouldn't do it, I think.

 

I hear what you are saying, but then we need to ask questions about "what is societies role in trying to help people "

 

This is a very difficult for me to bring up with her. It would be much easier to do nothing and to rather watch her eat junk food every day. Also after her first trip to the hospital she was put on some sort of diet from the doctor but she isn't sticking to it. So should I rather inquire about the diet she is suppose to be adhering to?

Edited April 3, 2014 by BruceVC

[IndiraLightfoot]

Perhaps that would be enough: Just ask how she's doing, and how she's coping with that new diet. If she gets defensive or too aggro, then you'll need to regroup and consider if, when, and how you should approach her on the subject again.  

[BruceVC]

Perhaps that would be enough: Just ask how she's doing, and how she's coping with that new diet. If she gets defensive or too aggro, then you'll need to regroup and consider if, when, and how you should approach her on the subject again.

That's good advice. I was wondering where I recognized your profile  picture from and then I remembered, its a rakshasa from the AD&D Monster Manual

[IndiraLightfoot]

Np!

 

And I did change it to this lovely picture for a very specific and sad reason. Read this thread and weep:

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/65939-rip-david-trampier/

[213374U]

I've found that unsolicited advice is a surefire way to get people to become defensive and close you out. It's easy to fix the problems of other people... because you're not the one doing the actual fixing.

[Nonek]

Why worry about the speck of dust in thy friends eye?

Edited April 3, 2014 by Nonek

[Monte Carlo]

 

I think you should mind your own business.

 

So you have never tried to help someone in your life who is on a destructive course?

 

Yep, I've worked with people in serious trouble for over twenty years.

Edited April 3, 2014 by Monte Carlo

[Rosbjerg]

As 213374U points out, unsolicited advice is basically asking for the person to shut you out. Because it often carries implicit criticism and moral judgement. Now that criticism may certainly be true in this case, but the question is - why is it really any of your concern? So that you don't have to feel bad when she dies? .. I think this is why we get pissed off when people criticize us, the offer of help is basically to ease your own immediate or future discomfort, thereby showing her that you find her uncomfortable - making her selfconscious about it, which in a worse case scenario would actually compound the problem.

 

Become her friend instead and help alleviate the underlying cause rather than the symptom.

[Nepenthe]

What Roz and 2-leet said, and also "The road to hell is paved with good intentions".

[obyknven]

Become her friend instead and help alleviate the underlying cause rather than the symptom.

Yeah  

[BruceVC]

As 213374U points out, unsolicited advice is basically asking for the person to shut you out. Because it often carries implicit criticism and moral judgement. Now that criticism may certainly be true in this case, but the question is - why is it really any of your concern? So that you don't have to feel bad when she dies? .. I think this is why we get pissed off when people criticize us, the offer of help is basically to ease your own immediate or future discomfort, thereby showing her that you find her uncomfortable - making her selfconscious about it, which in a worse case scenario would actually compound the problem.

 

Become her friend instead and help alleviate the underlying cause rather than the symptom.

 

 

I've found that unsolicited advice is a surefire way to get people to become defensive and close you out. It's easy to fix the problems of other people... because you're not the one doing the actual fixing.

 

Thanks for all suggestions, there have been some good points raised. But I don't get this "why do I care" view. I care because I am human being and I empathize with people who are less fortunate with me. Why do Doctors without Borders exist? Why do NGO's exist? Why do people try to help a stranger who is about to jump off a bridge. In all these cases we don't know the people involved but people still get involved and want to alleviate the pain and suffering of others. I would say this is one of the things that makes us human?

 

But I do accept I could make the situation unintentionally worse for her

Edited April 3, 2014 by BruceVC

[Gorgon]

Depends. If you feel that there is a way you could communicate that you are worried about her health you should do it, but it would require finesse. You have to be able to judge her reaction ahead of time. If you are really friends, then you can. I suppose that's one of the yardsticks. If you don't have that level of fingerspitzengefühl then don't try.

[Amentep]

Okay, so I'm going to put on my "manager's cap" here. It looks like a "city cab" cap, if my new avatar is anything to go by...

 

First off, handled wrongly you run the risk of instigating something - including creating a hostile workplace. Tread very, very carefully.

 

Second - how do you know about her hospitalization, and how do you know she was put on a diet? Laws may differ where you are, but generally speaking here the only person who has to know WHY a person is out is a supervisor. Are you her supervisor?

 

If she told you, then she feels close enough to at least tell you her personal information. If so you can, appropriately, ask her how she's doing. I would not bring up the diet. Let her lead the conversation. Ask her if you can help her with anything.

 

If she did not tell you, and others did, you do not approach her with your knowledge. You can ask her how she's doing (in a general sense) but you're going to have to let her to tell you what's going on in her life before you can realistically comment. Again take the approach of she tells you about her hospitalization - "oh, that's terrible is there anything I can do to help?"

 

Assuming she's confided in you, ask her what her doctors have told her, ask her if there's anything you can do to help her with what the doctor's have told her to do and above all do not pressure her, grill her, lecture her, scold her or otherwise tell her "I'm better than you, all you need to do is eat healthy like me".

Edited April 3, 2014 by Amentep

[IndiraLightfoot]

A cab cap to die for, it seems. Great advice from a great thinking hat!

Heed it, Bruce!

[BruceVC]

Okay, so I'm going to put on my "manager's cap" here. It looks like a "city cab" cap, if my new avatar is anything to go by...

 

First off, handled wrongly you run the risk of instigating something - including creating a hostile workplace. Tread very, very carefully.

 

Second - how do you know about her hospitalization, and how do you know she was put on a diet? Laws may differ where you are, but generally speaking here the only person who has to know WHY a person is out is a supervisor. Are you her supervisor?

 

If she told you, then she feels close enough to at least tell you her personal information. If so you can, appropriately, ask her how she's doing. I would not bring up the diet. Let her lead the conversation. Ask her if you can help her with anything.

 

If she did not tell you, and others did, you do not approach her with your knowledge. You can ask her how she's doing (in a general sense) but you're going to have to let her to tell you what's going on in her life before you can realistically comment. Again take the approach of she tells you about her hospitalization - "oh, that's terrible is there anything I can do to help?"

 

Assuming she's confided in you, ask her what her doctors have told her, ask her if there's anything you can do to help her with what the doctor's have told her to do and above all do not pressure her, grill her, lecture her, scold her or otherwise tell her "I'm better than you, all you need to do is eat healthy like me".

 

This is a good post, I need to respond to it because you have asked some good questions. But I'll do it later as I have an emergency home owners meeting in my complex now

[Orogun01]

I generally foster brutal honesty with acquaintances just in case something like this happens, I don't get friends in quantity due to it but I do get friends in quality.

[Walsingham]

Overall I'd be behind Amentep.

 

My only slight addition to his plan would be to observe that people don't just "eat themselves to death" for the giddy thrill of it.

 

If you concentrate on giving her something else to do in her life besides eat that would make her happier and have more fun then it'd be a plan. HOWEVER if you do this understand that you are taking on a job of work. You could be involved in this woman's life for years.

 

In your position I would be pretty harsh. I've got harsher as I've got older. You can't care for everyone. Because if you try then you can't give enough care to the few you actually should care about.

 

Case in point which I may have mentioned about a lady I met collapsed in the road. If I haven't already discussed it I'll run through it for you.

[SqueakyCat]

That's a difficult one, Bruce.  In my experience, people generally overeat or regularly drink too much because they are unhappy -- either with something currently happening in their life or something that happened in the past which they haven't been able to resolve.  I've only known a couple of morbidly obese people, but they were extremely cheerful on the outside and very easy to like, but very troubled internally.  One was a co-worker of my husband's who eventually died in his 30's due to complications with his weight and diabetes.  It was such a waste -- he was a wonderfully caring person.

 

Amentep gave some very good advice.

 

Have you thought of making a really healthy, great tasting lunch and inviting her to join you?  The subject of food would naturally come up since you made the lunch for her.  I have some good recipes if you need a few.

 

You have to tread very, very carefully when discussing a woman's weight no matter how good your intentions may be.

 

All kidding aside, though, it's particularly a problem with young girls.  A jealous cousin of my daughter made an off-cuff remark to her (and she was in no way overweight) when she was 15 and it started a 3 year cycle of anorexia/bulimia.  Her low point was 90 pounds.   She's fine now, but extremely thin and fragile.

 

Tread very softly, Bruce, and good luck.  I think it's very nice of you to want to help her get healthy.

[Gfted1]

Case in point which I may have mentioned about a lady I met collapsed in the road. If I haven't already discussed it I'll run through it for you.

I don't recall that story and would be interested to hear it.