What are you playing now

[Keyrock]

Wiped out Shishak and his bandit goons and rescued Mitay.  Shishak and 4 goons were in the garage, so I found a spot with partial cover around the other side of a car, lobbed a grenade before they realized what was up, then darted into cover.  The blast took out 4 of the creeps (luckily, Mitay had a wall between him and the blast) and I gunned down the last chump with my LR-300 before he could get his bearings.  After that it was a simple matter of grabbing a good spot with partial cover across from the one and only entrance into the garage and gunning chumps down as they tried to enter.  It was like shooting fish in a barrel, except they were bandits in a garage.  I used up nearly 200 rounds of ammo, but took only minimal damage.  Mitay is free, bandits are dead, I get paid, and I get to keep the artifact.  Everybody wins...  except the bandits.  I'll stash the artifact in my personal box until I feel like returning to Zaton, then I'll sell it to Beard for major profit.  With that I should easily have enough scratch for a SEVA suit which I'll need eventually to get through the Jupiter Underground into Pripyat.  There's just no going through there without a SEVA suit.  I'm not nearly at that stage of the game yet (got some mutant and artifact hunting to take care of first), but it's something to keep in mind.  I look forward to the journey through the underground to Pripyat, as it's one of the more intense parts of the game.

Edited April 22, 2014 by Keyrock

[Drowsy Emperor]

 

By "more of the same" do you mean similar gameplay or abysmal PC port?

 

Well that certainly won't hurt. For me personally, I couldn't get over the crappy controls, they felt so imprecise and sluggish.

 

 

Yes it reminded me of Deathtrap Dungeon and the early Tomb Raider so I played it for about an hour and gave up. May come back to it though

[BruceVC]

 

 

By "more of the same" do you mean similar gameplay or abysmal PC port?

 

Well that certainly won't hurt. For me personally, I couldn't get over the crappy controls, they felt so imprecise and sluggish.

 

 

Yes it reminded me of Deathtrap Dungeon and the early Tomb Raider so I played it for about an hour and gave up. May come back to it though

 

 

Deathtrap Dungeon and the sequel, Trial of the Champions, were 2 of my favourite books in the Fighting Fantasy series. They should remake the game because from what I understand the first one made for PC was an abysmal failure.

[Bartimaeus]

I don't know Nonek but everything you have mentioned that doesn't exist in your version of Deus Ex exists in the latest version I am busy with, you don't think the game  will be too hard if you leave out some of those things in a modern game like  the latest Deus Ex? You also don't want to ignore practicality with misplaced nostalgia  

 

If you left out certain things, map markers for example, without changing anything else, the game would almost certainly be broken...because the designers assumed you would be using those "features" and didn't provide any other way of figuring out where your objective is without using them, (that's why, without completely revising journal entries to provide more hints, you can't just plain disable map markers in the last two Elder Scrolls games - you'd have no idea what you were supposed to be doing just from what NPCs say alone, and the vanilla journal entries are just as useless, if not worse).

 

Too hard? Yes, because the game wasn't designed (sensibly) for it...which is what his complaint is derived from, if I'm not mistaken. 

Edited April 22, 2014 by Bartimaeus

[BruceVC]

 

I don't know Nonek but everything you have mentioned that doesn't exist in your version of Deus Ex exists in the latest version I am busy with, you don't think the game  will be too hard if you leave out some of those things in a modern game like  the latest Deus Ex? You also don't want to ignore practicality with misplaced nostalgia  

 

If you left out certain things, map markers for example, without changing anything else, the game would almost certainly be broken...because the designers assumed you would be using those "features" and didn't provide any other way of figuring out where your objective is without using them, (that's why, wut completely revising journal entries to provide more hints, you can't just plain disable map markers in the last two Elder Scrolls games - you'd have no idea what you were supposed to be doing just from what NPCs say alone, and the vanilla journal entries are just as useless, if not worse).

 

Too hard? Yes, because the game wasn't designed (sensibly) for it...which is what his complaint is derived from, if I'm not mistaken. 

 

 

That's some good points Barti darling, that's some good points

 

As you mentioned without some systemic changes to features like the Journal entries I think the game around questing would be unfairly difficult

[trulez]

Finished my first, and only, play through of Stick of Truth. As I suspected when the game was announced, the South Park humor doesn't translate well into a game. It's a mediocre South Park episode (at best) wrapped in a mediocre RPG game. I did finish it, and it had few laughs in there, so I guess it wasn't all bad, and I have to say as far as SP themed games goes it was done perfectly.

 

Now playing Banished, if only my villagers would stop dying.

[Humanoid]

 

I don't know Nonek but everything you have mentioned that doesn't exist in your version of Deus Ex exists in the latest version I am busy with, you don't think the game  will be too hard if you leave out some of those things in a modern game like  the latest Deus Ex? You also don't want to ignore practicality with misplaced nostalgia  

 

If you left out certain things, map markers for example, without changing anything else, the game would almost certainly be broken...because the designers assumed you would be using those "features" and didn't provide any other way of figuring out where your objective is without using them, (that's why, without completely revising journal entries to provide more hints, you can't just plain disable map markers in the last two Elder Scrolls games - you'd have no idea what you were supposed to be doing just from what NPCs say alone, and the vanilla journal entries are just as useless, if not worse).

 

Too hard? Yes, because the game wasn't designed (sensibly) for it...which is what his complaint is derived from, if I'm not mistaken. 

 

Also because the exterior architecture in the game is utterly nonsensical. Take New Vegas' mystifying interior corridors and random right turns, and apply them to city streets. Madness. I mean, two of the major thoroughfares in the game that you'll pass repeatedly because they're the fastest ways between point A and point B are a completely straight crawl tunnel that goes underneath an apartment building for no reason, and the interior of a multi-storey brothel.

Edited April 22, 2014 by Humanoid

[Sarex]

Yes it reminded me of Deathtrap Dungeon and the early Tomb Raider so I played it for about an hour and gave up. May come back to it though

 

I put more time in to it, because everyone was saying how hard it is and I didn't wanna give up right away. Finished the first part of it and made it back to the bonfire you start at(after the two bosses on the roof), and then went down to the area with the ghosts, I just couldn't make my self play more of it. What it came down to is that you either had to roll and backstab to defeat enemies, or you had to learn the timings of the parries, that wasn't fun at all for me, especially with those commands.

 

It just felt like an unpolished game to me.

[Bartimaeus]

 

Also because the exterior architecture in the game is utterly nonsensical. Take New Vegas' mystifying interior corridors and random right turns, and apply them to city streets. Madness. I mean, two of the major thoroughfares in the game that you'll pass repeatedly because they're the fastest ways between point A and point B are a completely straight crawl tunnel that goes underneath an apartment building for no reason, and the interior of a multi-storey brothel.

 

 

Yuck.  I have not actually played DE:HR (or Skyrim, for that matter ) - well, not for more than half an hour, anyways. I disliked the controls enough that I gave up almost immediately...and also because I wasn't much interested in the game to begin with. Nevertheless, I thought what I said was probably true of the game.  

 

 

 

 

(that's why, wut completely revising journal entries to provide more hints

 

 

"wut" happened to your quote of my post?

Edited April 22, 2014 by Bartimaeus

[IndiraLightfoot]

^{Over Easter, I got this craving for some nice isometric IE-gaming, and decided to give IWD2 a real chance this time around. Long ago, I just swished past parts of it, and I never finished it, because other D&D games demanded my attention. So far, I really like it. It's D&D 3 ed (definitely more computer-friendly than AD&D), and the pacing is somewhat sluggish, but still very nice - almost comforting in more ways than one. Everything feels a bit small in the resolutions offered by the screens of today, but the music and ambient sounds all make up for that, as well as all the humour and descriptions. It offers a lot more to read, and only a few lines are VO:d, and that's absolutely fine. Hopefully, playing this, gives me a whiff of what PE will be like at the end of this year.}

Edited April 22, 2014 by IndiraLightfoot

[Nonek]

 

Playing the original Deus Ex with the Shifter mod installed and of course the HD textures. I'd forgotten how much accessibility had ruined modern games, here I have no glowing golden marks over important characters heads, no outlining for ladders to tell me what there use is, no quest markers, no mini map, no enemies appearing on a radar, no blatantly more beneficial playstyle and it's fantastic. Every playthrough I discover something new in Deus Ex and I can see why now, this degeneration really needs to be rolled back so that players can explore, experiment and be enchanted by the gameworld, rather than performing in a Skinner box.

 

In a way I find it a little insulting how much handholding modern games partake in, whom exactly is ignorant of a ladder or doors function?

 

I don't know Nonek but everything you have mentioned that doesn't exist in your version of Deus Ex exists in the latest version I am busy with, you don't think the game  will be too hard if you leave out some of those things in a modern game like  the latest Deus Ex? You also don't want to ignore practicality with misplaced nostalgia 

 

 

No the game is quite easy, and bear in mind I am a middle aged man without any pretense towards "leet skills," and this is on realistic. Of course I died fairly quickly during the Unatco ambush, but I refused to plan and prepare for that, as it seemed far too meta-gamey. I wouldn't say solid, practical design principles instead of skinner box handholding is misplaced nostalgia though, especially when i'm engaged in direct comparison of the two styles.

 

Edit: Of course personal opinion and whatnot.

Edited April 22, 2014 by Nonek

[BruceVC]

 

 

Playing the original Deus Ex with the Shifter mod installed and of course the HD textures. I'd forgotten how much accessibility had ruined modern games, here I have no glowing golden marks over important characters heads, no outlining for ladders to tell me what there use is, no quest markers, no mini map, no enemies appearing on a radar, no blatantly more beneficial playstyle and it's fantastic. Every playthrough I discover something new in Deus Ex and I can see why now, this degeneration really needs to be rolled back so that players can explore, experiment and be enchanted by the gameworld, rather than performing in a Skinner box.

 

In a way I find it a little insulting how much handholding modern games partake in, whom exactly is ignorant of a ladder or doors function?

 

I don't know Nonek but everything you have mentioned that doesn't exist in your version of Deus Ex exists in the latest version I am busy with, you don't think the game  will be too hard if you leave out some of those things in a modern game like  the latest Deus Ex? You also don't want to ignore practicality with misplaced nostalgia 

 

 

No the game is quite easy, and bear in mind I am a middle aged man without any pretense towards "leet skills," and this is on realistic. Of course I died fairly quickly during the Unatco ambush, but I refused to plan and prepare for that, as it seemed far too meta-gamey. I wouldn't say solid, practical design principles instead of skinner box handholding is misplaced nostalgia though, especially when i'm engaged in direct comparison of the two styles.

 

Edit: Of course personal opinion and whatnot.

 

 

But if we are completely honest with each other you aren't really comparing the two styles are you Nonek? I just see you dismissing the latest Deus Ex compared to the older one. Where is comparative analysis between the two games because I'm just seeing negativity about the newer one. I am probably misunderstanding your post...

[Nonek]

 

But if we are completely honest with each other you aren't really comparing the two styles are you Nonek? I just see you dismissing the latest Deus Ex compared to the older one. Where is comparative analysis between the two games because I'm just seeing negativity about the newer one. I am probably misunderstanding your post...

 

 

I'm not dismissing or being negative towards Human Revolution in particular Mr VC, though obviously that is still very much fresh in my mind, but what I see as a degenerate practice. I liked Human Revolution and thought it was a very good spiritual successor to Deus Ex (which is a rare occurrence in and of itself) but I think my claims of too much accessibility and handholding is fair criticism, in the act of catering to the lowest common denominator they have essentially rather robbed their games of (to me) enjoyable aspects, that being exploration, challenge and experimentation.

 

And of course I brazenly defend the right to believe that anybody who cannot understand a door or ladders function should not be left in charge of a PC.

Edited April 22, 2014 by Nonek

[BruceVC]

 

 

But if we are completely honest with each other you aren't really comparing the two styles are you Nonek? I just see you dismissing the latest Deus Ex compared to the older one. Where is comparative analysis between the two games because I'm just seeing negativity about the newer one. I am probably misunderstanding your post...

 

 

I'm not dismissing or being negative towards Human Revolution in particular Mr VC, though obviously that is still very much fresh in my mind, but what I see as a degenerate practice. I liked Human Revolution and thought it was a very good spiritual successor to Deus Ex (which is a rare occurrence in and of itself) but I think my claims of too much accessibility and handholding is fair criticism, in the act of catering to the lowest common denominator they have essentially rather robbed their games of (to me) enjoyable aspects, that being exploration, challenge and experimentation.

 

And of course I brazenly defend the right to believe that anybody who cannot understand a door or ladders function should not be left in charge of a PC.

 

 

 " And of course I brazenly defend the right to believe that anybody who cannot understand a door or ladders function should not be left in charge of a PC."

 

 

That comment made me really laugh

[Drowsy Emperor]

DX HR was far too easy. On top of that the stealth could be quite ridiculous at times since the enemies can plainly "see" you but don't react at all. The endgame was poor. On the other hand the design, the beginning and the middle were a lot of fun.

[Hassat Hunter]

You don't think pressing E is more fun than carefully choosing a melee weapon, carefully sneaking up (so not 20 yards away pressing E) and careful aiming?

 

If that's not dumbed down, I don't know *what* dumbed down is. In DX sneaking was hard. In DX:HR even the worst stealth player ever (me) can easily ghost a level.

[Drowsy Emperor]

I mean the story and the visuals and world exploration. The actual stealth mechanic was crap.

[Tale]

You don't think pressing E is more fun than carefully choosing a melee weapon, carefully sneaking up (so not 20 yards away pressing E) and careful aiming?

 

If that's not dumbed down, I don't know *what* dumbed down is. In DX sneaking was hard. In DX:HR even the worst stealth player ever (me) can easily ghost a level.

I don't think there was anything careful or fun about selecting a melee weapon. And the aiming wasn't just careful, it was outright finnicky on melee.

 

There's nothing "smart" to make "dumb" there, unless you want to consider ammo conservation on the stun prod as intrinsically more intelligent than the battery conservation.

 

Single acts like either aren't fun. I have a big issue with cutscene actions like HR did. But I also have issues with how Deus Ex required to hit the arbitrary spot on the back of the head that causes your weapon to actually do what you want it to.

[Tigranes]

 

Playing the original Deus Ex with the Shifter mod installed and of course the HD textures. I'd forgotten how much accessibility had ruined modern games, here I have no glowing golden marks over important characters heads, no outlining for ladders to tell me what there use is, no quest markers, no mini map, no enemies appearing on a radar, no blatantly more beneficial playstyle and it's fantastic. Every playthrough I discover something new in Deus Ex and I can see why now, this degeneration really needs to be rolled back so that players can explore, experiment and be enchanted by the gameworld, rather than performing in a Skinner box.

 

In a way I find it a little insulting how much handholding modern games partake in, whom exactly is ignorant of a ladder or doors function?

 

I don't know Nonek but everything you have mentioned that doesn't exist in your version of Deus Ex exists in the latest version I am busy with, you don't think the game  will be too hard if you leave out some of those things in a modern game like  the latest Deus Ex? You also don't want to ignore practicality with misplaced nostalgia 

 

 

"If you like old stuff you are being nostalgic" is unfounded, illogical and cliche. Besides, if he's actually playing the old game right now and enjoying the old design then you can't really call it misplaced nostalgia. 

 

I don't remember DX:HR being particularly obnoxious about this, though. The best example is a world where you can actually figure out where to go by talking to people, reading signs and making basic connections (Morrowind) and a world where you actually can't find people unless you follow the giant arrow (at which point I wonder why even bother building the environment, since half your eye and attention is focused on the arrow, as if you're walking around Paris eyes glued to Google Maps).

 

Playing nothing these days after some dabbling with Gothic 2/3, I am disappointed that Age of Wonders 3 and Warlock 2 don't seem to be so great.

[BruceVC]

 

 

Playing the original Deus Ex with the Shifter mod installed and of course the HD textures. I'd forgotten how much accessibility had ruined modern games, here I have no glowing golden marks over important characters heads, no outlining for ladders to tell me what there use is, no quest markers, no mini map, no enemies appearing on a radar, no blatantly more beneficial playstyle and it's fantastic. Every playthrough I discover something new in Deus Ex and I can see why now, this degeneration really needs to be rolled back so that players can explore, experiment and be enchanted by the gameworld, rather than performing in a Skinner box.

 

In a way I find it a little insulting how much handholding modern games partake in, whom exactly is ignorant of a ladder or doors function?

 

I don't know Nonek but everything you have mentioned that doesn't exist in your version of Deus Ex exists in the latest version I am busy with, you don't think the game  will be too hard if you leave out some of those things in a modern game like  the latest Deus Ex? You also don't want to ignore practicality with misplaced nostalgia 

 

 

"If you like old stuff you are being nostalgic" is unfounded, illogical and cliche. Besides, if he's actually playing the old game right now and enjoying the old design then you can't really call it misplaced nostalgia. 

 

I don't remember DX:HR being particularly obnoxious about this, though. The best example is a world where you can actually figure out where to go by talking to people, reading signs and making basic connections (Morrowind) and a world where you actually can't find people unless you follow the giant arrow (at which point I wonder why even bother building the environment, since half your eye and attention is focused on the arrow, as if you're walking around Paris eyes glued to Google Maps).

 

Playing nothing these days after some dabbling with Gothic 2/3, I am disappointed that Age of Wonders 3 and Warlock 2 don't seem to be so great.

 

 

I agree, for me the best way to find your way around a particular game world would be the Morrowind methodology. But I can understand the frustration if you aren't use to it. I like the way Dishonored handled finding quest objectives, you could disable them if you wanted so you were forced to explore which was cool

 

But don't be too dismissive of the danger of unintentional misplaced nostalgia, its real and pernicious. This occurs when someone plays older games and then automatically dislikes newer games or doesn't give newer iterations of a game series a proper chance. I'm not talking about Nonek as he explained his view but I do see this view from others

[Malcador]

Never actually seen that, myself. Mostly nostalgia is thrown about when someone mentions things they don't like about the New Game regardless of the detail.  And in any event, hardly harmful or bad in anyway - the game has no feelings, the developers probably don't care about you anyway and you're missing out on the chance to give $60 to some company, nothing vital.  Reflexively thinking all new games suck is something separate I find, more a symptom of one tiring of the industry rather than the specific game being remade for the new generation.  Well that or just being grousy. 

[Tigranes]

 

 

 

Playing the original Deus Ex with the Shifter mod installed and of course the HD textures. I'd forgotten how much accessibility had ruined modern games, here I have no glowing golden marks over important characters heads, no outlining for ladders to tell me what there use is, no quest markers, no mini map, no enemies appearing on a radar, no blatantly more beneficial playstyle and it's fantastic. Every playthrough I discover something new in Deus Ex and I can see why now, this degeneration really needs to be rolled back so that players can explore, experiment and be enchanted by the gameworld, rather than performing in a Skinner box.

 

In a way I find it a little insulting how much handholding modern games partake in, whom exactly is ignorant of a ladder or doors function?

 

I don't know Nonek but everything you have mentioned that doesn't exist in your version of Deus Ex exists in the latest version I am busy with, you don't think the game  will be too hard if you leave out some of those things in a modern game like  the latest Deus Ex? You also don't want to ignore practicality with misplaced nostalgia 

 

 

"If you like old stuff you are being nostalgic" is unfounded, illogical and cliche. Besides, if he's actually playing the old game right now and enjoying the old design then you can't really call it misplaced nostalgia. 

 

I don't remember DX:HR being particularly obnoxious about this, though. The best example is a world where you can actually figure out where to go by talking to people, reading signs and making basic connections (Morrowind) and a world where you actually can't find people unless you follow the giant arrow (at which point I wonder why even bother building the environment, since half your eye and attention is focused on the arrow, as if you're walking around Paris eyes glued to Google Maps).

 

Playing nothing these days after some dabbling with Gothic 2/3, I am disappointed that Age of Wonders 3 and Warlock 2 don't seem to be so great.

 

 

I agree, for me the best way to find your way around a particular game world would be the Morrowind methodology. But I can understand the frustration if you aren't use to it. I like the way Dishonored handled finding quest objectives, you could disable them if you wanted so you were forced to explore which was cool

 

But don't be too dismissive of the danger of unintentional misplaced nostalgia, its real and pernicious. This occurs when someone plays older games and then automatically dislikes newer games or doesn't give newer iterations of a game series a proper chance. I'm not talking about Nonek as he explained his view but I do see this view from others

 

 

Nostalgia can distort your judgment, but it's not very likely if you are actually reliving those old experiences instead of remembering yourself playing them 10 years ago. I think there's an automatic reflex to ask 'nostalgia?' when someone likes something old or doesn't like something new (e.g. there was nothing in Nonek's views to warrant that question in the first place) and that is part of the culture that breeds this weird idea that gaming advances over time and newer game design is better than the old. 

 

One interesting thing I think is that the kind of people more likely to play old games again and again, or really get into games they like, are often less susceptible to nostalgia, and the kind of people who go back and play games they liked 10 years ago and find that they hate it, are exactly the kind of people who tend to move on quickly to the new game and not revisit old stuff anyway. It's not so much a question of nostalgia but what set of expectations and ways of playing you get accustomed to.

[ShadySands]

I was playing Age of Wonders 3 but the more I play the less I enjoy it andI've been meaning to pick up Warlock 2 lately I've been on the fence about it

 

I'm mostly playing LOTRO while waiting for the games I truly want to play to come out (Dead State, Wasteland 2, PE, DA:I)

 

Thinking of picking up the latest CK2 DLC, Rangers of Idaho or something 

[melkathi]

I was playing Age of Wonders 3 but the more I play the less I enjoy it 

 

You aren't the only one.

The AI isn't all that great. And there are other issues.

Funny how the very vocal beta testers who wouldn't shut up about the game before release have gone completly silent now that people can se the result of their testing

[Tigranes]

Yeah, what I hear is that Warlock 2 is not much different from W1, while AoW3 seems a competent but ultimately boring replica. I'm still waiting for Eador to fix itself, to.