Spill your blasphemous opinions on CRPGs here

[Guest Slinky]

Let's see..

 

- I don't like Icewind Dale games or any other RPG where the player makes the companion characters himself

 

- Fantasy settings for RPG's are horribly over used

 

- I enjoyed Mass Effect 2 more than any other game Bioware has made, including Baldur's Gate 2

 

- Story, dialog, characters and quests are much more important in RPG's than combat

 

- RPG's tend to be too combat heavy in general

 

- Romances can be good as long they are written well and the game lets the player end it before it even starts

[IndiraLightfoot]

I hate everyone on this thread already.

Now, that's the spirit!

[IndiraLightfoot]

 

 

- Fantasy settings for RPG's are horribly over used

 

 

QFT!!!

Edited February 20, 2014 by IndiraLightfoot

[Pipyui]

• Morrowind and Oblivion were the most immersive RPGs I've ever played.
• I guess it's not blasphemous anymore, but I also find D&D mechanics in videogames stink - no player agency, and 80% of skills are useless.
• I hate turn-based combat absolutely.
• Minimalistic UI, all day, every day.
• I've never played P:T or BG1, and can't muster the will to play a game nowadays at such low resolution.

 

I hate everyone on this thread already.

 

That's okay *sigh* I'm used to it.

[Nonek]

1. When I can see my protagonist constantly i'm far more connected to him, thus isometric and third person games are far more immersive to me than first person.

2. Games should never cater to the individuals who do not finish them, they should tell the story they wish without any constraints.

3. Accessibility is destroying the genre, constant pandering to the lowest common denominator destroys the game for anybody wishing for a challenge or cohesion.

4. On the whole games have devolved over the last twenty years, and the masses have cheered on this slide into mediocrity and championed degenerate design decisions, feature stripping and lack of content.

5. There can never be enough choice and consequence, my every playthrough should be different and unique. For instance Bioware's three different answers leading to the same result is truly degenerate design, easily discerned and making a mockery of interactivity, which should be the greatest strength of this medium.

6. The tyranny of loot collection is destroying good games, more need to have a viable and balanced economy.

7. Turn based combat is far more thrilling and involved than real time, the playing out of tactics, the wait for the results, the cruel fall of the dice and your enemies response, exhilirating.

8. Blank slate characters remain blank if the game does not acknowledge their actions, you may invent histories, habits and personalities for them but if the game does not acknowledge that then you may as well quit the game and use your imagination.

9. There is far too much combat in almost every game ever made, the thousands you kill on your quest do not empower the protagonist, they simply rob the foe of any potency and make them fodder. Ramp up the difficulty and make combat a gruelling deadly puzzle to be avoided at all costs, rather than a time sink and artificial barrier.

10. Apathy is death.

[Undecaf]

- Never liked, or been able to fully appreciate RT or RTwP combat in cRPG's. It's always been TB or PB for me, where the fun is.

- I tend to appreciate more abstract way of doing combat over full hands on over every little quirk.

- I like having only nominal or suggestive control over my party members that are not of my own creation. Their decisions, hits and misses are part of their character I need to live with.

- I tend to not like overt or sole focus on combat and dungeon crawling. To me RPG's have always been about the overall possibilities of interaction between the PC and the world (combat is part of that, but not all of it).

Edited February 20, 2014 by Undecaf

[JFSOCC]

I agree with everything nonek said.

[IndiraLightfoot]

Nonek: A fantastic write-up!!!

 

I have this strong feeling that Torment: Tides of Numenera perhaps will be a wish come true for you!

Edited February 20, 2014 by IndiraLightfoot

[Sarex]

The only 2 blasphemous opinions I have is that Torment was the worst and Icewind Dale 2 was the best cRPG I ever played.

[Humanoid]

The tricky thing about this thread is that it's hard to come up with commandment style bullet points instead of starting to waffle on about them at length. It also takes effort to make the statements blunt and avoid the temptation to soften them a bit with shades of grey. Then I start feeling that I've crossed the line into trolling - I wrote this bit after the stuff below and I know I did.

 

- Failure should always be an option. Writing for the winning path only is lazy writing.

- Inventory and gear are almost always best off being fully abstracted away, never requiring manual manipulation by the player.

- The Sims is more of an RPG than 90%+ of the stuff marketed as such.

- Magic and related concepts like psionics, the force, biotics, etcetera, are just crutches and a story can always, always be done better by omitting them given sufficient effort.

- Consequently Tolkien and Star Wars are just about the two worst influences ever to take into gaming, let alone directly use the IP.

[IndiraLightfoot]

Humanoid: Am observant and most fair point! However, your points are one of the sharpest so far, so I'd say go for it! 

 

On a more serious note, this kind of truth and dare, could potentially be reflecting some qualified criticisms of CRPGs. And I'm pretty certain that Josh & Co have already had this kind of shark tank meeting.

[marelooke]

KotOR2 is the biggest disappointment I've had in my gaming career, due to being totally awesome but only half finished (I'm aware of the restoration project and I'm not taking it into account as it's a community effort).

 

Vampire: the Masquerade: Bloodlines was the biggest positive surprise I've had in my gaming career so far. That game has such a great atmosphere.

 

RTwP is the best balance between the button mashing that tends to be RT combat and the slow tactical bore that tends to be TB combat.

 

The worst thing about PS:T is not the combat, but the UI and most of the problems people have with the combat can be traced back to the atrocious UI.

 

Bad UI (or more generally UX) design kills more games than mediocre cliché ridden stories ever will be able to. I can play through a clichéd story with clunky mechanics (as long as it's well told), but if I have to constantly fight the game and UI it's game over (The Witcher 2 says "hi").

 

The importance of the story to make a good cRPG game is wildly overrated compared to the presentation of said story to the player.

 

Nobody has managed to make wizards actually work well in a RT combat system.

 

 

Hmm, I think I might have to change my name now.

Edited February 20, 2014 by marelooke

[Piccolo]

1. Storyline is not in any way a defining or essential element of the genre. It just adds to the experience when done right.

2. The genre is suited better for 1st person than 3rd person, top down or isometric.

3. CRPG is often an abused term used to segregate more tactical oriented RPGs (turn-based/RTwP) from action RPGs when it should simply mean any RPG designed for PCs.

4. Turn-based and RTwP RPGs can be just as bad as action RPGs for allowing player skill to override character abilities. They just involve a different type of player skill.

5. Planescape: Torment is gaudy and overrated.

[Hurlshort]

- Planescape Torment's setting is terrible.

- Alpha Protocol has better character development than any other RPG

- Low level DnD is the only fun DnD

- Some of the best RPing I've ever seen was on WoW.

[Keyrock]

- AD&D is a horrible basis for cRPGs.  I firmly believe it held back NWN2 (agree with you Indira on its quality) from being an even better game.

    - Subpoint: Vancian magic is hilariously awful as a game system.

 

I didn't think that was blasphemous.  I thought the majority of us felt that way?

 

Anyway, here are some of mine:

 

• RTwP is actually slower and far more tedious than TB
• 95% of all cRPG combat is filler and completely unnecessary
• I often like games that aren't perfectly balanced and have exploits
• Elanee is one of the worst companion characters ever written
• Mass Effect 2 is the best game BioWare has ever developed not named "Baldur's Gate 2"
• The Witcher nudie cards were awesome

And the big one:

 

• D&D doesn't just suck as a base for cRPGs, it's also a fairly lousy PnP system.

[Keyrock]

 

• Fallout: New Vegas is the best Fallout game in the series and Fallout 2 is much better than Fallout.
•  

 

 

 

- Alpha Protocol has better character development than any other RPG

 

Hear, hear.

[kirottu]

-First person view is the best view.

-Party based combat is like playing four hands of poker at the same time by your lonesome.

[HardRains]

I hate Planescape: Torment.

[BruceVC]

1. When I can see my protagonist constantly i'm far more connected to him, thus isometric and third person games are far more immersive to me than first person.

2. Games should never cater to the individuals who do not finish them, they should tell the story they wish without any constraints.

3. Accessibility is destroying the genre, constant pandering to the lowest common denominator destroys the game for anybody wishing for a challenge or cohesion.

4. On the whole games have devolved over the last twenty years, and the masses have cheered on this slide into mediocrity and championed degenerate design decisions, feature stripping and lack of content.

5. There can never be enough choice and consequence, my every playthrough should be different and unique. For instance Bioware's three different answers leading to the same result is truly degenerate design, easily discerned and making a mockery of interactivity, which should be the greatest strength of this medium.

6. The tyranny of loot collection is destroying good games, more need to have a viable and balanced economy.

7. Turn based combat is far more thrilling and involved than real time, the playing out of tactics, the wait for the results, the cruel fall of the dice and your enemies response, exhilirating.

8. Blank slate characters remain blank if the game does not acknowledge their actions, you may invent histories, habits and personalities for them but if the game does not acknowledge that then you may as well quit the game and use your imagination.

9. There is far too much combat in almost every game ever made, the thousands you kill on your quest do not empower the protagonist, they simply rob the foe of any potency and make them fodder. Ramp up the difficulty and make combat a gruelling deadly puzzle to be avoided at all costs, rather than a time sink and artificial barrier.

10. Apathy is death.

 

You make some good and thought provoking points, its a pity you aren't a proud promancer. Our army could effectively utilize someone of your insights and erudition 

[FlintlockJazz]

• I not only think a non-combat RPG is possible but would actually like to play one.

I like Alpha Protocol (probably not so blasphemous here but the hate this game seemed to get was bizarre).  Dunno if I would say it had the best character development but it had one of the best choice and consequence system around.

I think KotOR is one of the worst games ever made.  Never played KotOR 2 so can't say anything about it, but everything about KotOR 1, from the gameplay (atrocious controls, mind-destroyingly boring combat even when you get Jedi powers, oh which reminds me penalising those who manage to level up and do quests before unlocking the Jedi quest is also bollocks) to the story and characters (seriously, what is so appealing about the characters in this game?  They are dull, arrogant toss-rags, pompous ****, etc both the good and bad characters).  Seriously, give me my money back and burn this atrocity!

Dunno if this is blasphemous, but playing a character who is special and is chosen is getting so tiresome I wouldn't mind one where I play a bum. :D

I had your mum last night, all night.  Oh, wait, this is about RPG secrets right...

Edited February 20, 2014 by FlintlockJazz

[aluminiumtrioxid]

Ooh, another!

 

Vampire: Bloodlines was a terrible wasted opportunity for the VtM license, a bad adaptation which had none of the core themes of its source matter, and devolved into borderline unplayable crap after the Chinatown parts.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

The ability to role-play a character how you see fit is more important than anything else, including advancement mechanics or combat.

 

BG1 is better than BG2.

 

A superhero RPG would be the best concept ever.

[BruceVC]

The ability to role-play a character how you see fit is more important than anything else, including advancement mechanics or combat.

 

BG1 is better than BG2.

 

A superhero RPG would be the best concept ever.

 

Like a...like a...spider-man RPG?

[Orogun01]

forgottenlor & Orogun01: I bought VtM:B on some Steam sale over X-mas, so I have yet to play that game. Your replies certainly gets my hopes up!

As per usual, there is the intro guide to VtM:B (I liked how you wrote it): You shouldn't play Malkavian on your first playthrough, is a very different experience that may confuse if you don't know the story. It also takes some previous knowledge of the story to fully appreciate(translate) the Malkavian dialogue.

 

If you're planning to do more than one playthrough, two suggestions: Try out the Clan Quest mod and put some space between your playthroughs. I don't know why but whenever I restart the game after I completed it I'm still on the mindframe of my previous character which somehow ruins my current one. After I wait for a bit I can get into the game without trouble.

 

PS: I'm kind of jealous that you get to experience the Haunted house for the first time.

[Orogun01]

The ability to role-play a character how you see fit is more important than anything else, including advancement mechanics or combat.

 

BG1 is better than BG2.

 

A superhero RPG would be the best concept ever.

There's the X-men games by RavenSoft; I liked those.