Update #71: The Heavy Hitters: Rogues and Rangers

[Elerond]

So excited to have more information on the classes!

 

Two things I'm worried about: the way Coordinated Positioning is animated is going to be essential to making it smooth and believable as opposed to very "gamey" and I have never been fond of animal companions in party based games. Everything the companion was listed as being for is what the party should be doing, which makes the animal superfluous and kind of useless in a party environment.

 

Just my two cents.

 

Animal companion gives ranger ability to do both ranged and melee harassing at same time, which makes ranger quite unique class. 

[milczyciel]

Eye candies, yay ^^

Love the foliage - wonder if you tinkered with it since the last tree-heavy update, because somehow I feel they changed for the better. Especially those spruces. And that dome skeleton? It feels right, fitting, it's arcs on the right angle and such. Just the way I like it - between believable and unbelievable. Though I wouldn't mind an explanation of sorts (from a region lore or maybe some local npc) who and why cleared all the rubles from the structure interiors.

I don't trust that rogue, at all. That smirk and look he gives, like he's calculating is it worthwhile to prowl in my pockets

 

As for the combat mechanics - I'll have to play the game first. Stopped worrying about them thanks to some folks out there. They seemed varied and that's always good in my book.

[Gyges]

Excellent, i was hoping there was room for personalized builds inside classes.

[Wirdjos]

 

So excited to have more information on the classes!

 

Two things I'm worried about: the way Coordinated Positioning is animated is going to be essential to making it smooth and believable as opposed to very "gamey" and I have never been fond of animal companions in party based games. Everything the companion was listed as being for is what the party should be doing, which makes the animal superfluous and kind of useless in a party environment.

 

Just my two cents.

 

Animal companion gives ranger ability to do both ranged and melee harassing at same time, which makes ranger quite unique class. 

 

I'm not suggesting the animal companion makes the ranger bland and generic, just that the role of the animal itself should be played by a party member (such as a fighter or rogue) in a party based game. Why not apply most of those bonuses the ranger and animal get from each other to the whole party instead?

Edited January 28, 2014 by Wirdjos

[ulfrgrimdark]

I am thrilled with this update. My favorite classes are Rogue and Ranger. Now the Rogue is a bit different in style here (not about theivery) which is fine by me. However it is the ranger that has me thrilled:
 

Animal Companion - The ranger begins the game with (and can name) an animal companion that fights at his or her direction. This companion shares Health and Stamina with the ranger, i.e. if either one is damaged, the same pool is reduced. Both the ranger and the animal companion die if their Health is reduced to zero. Animal companions have high inherent Damage Thresholds that allow them to run interference for their masters.

Hate how most animal companions are nothing more than throw away meat shields in most games. I never play them that way - I always protect them at the cost of my own life - so its frustrating when developers either make them so weak they are useless and/or treat them as disposable. A real Ranger is closely bonded to their animal and would not treat them like a disposable tool.

So I love this approach where the two are totally bonded to the point that if one dies so does the other.

Anyhow a cool update!

[Acerbissimus]

I vote for The Leaders of the Band next.

[Stun]

Too bad you didn't give examples of possible ranger animal companions and how they differ, but good update otherwise.

Indeed. That was the first thing that popped into my head: Animal companions. Sweet. Er... ok what kind of animals? Are they going to be the standard fare Ie. Wolves, cats, badgers, falcons, bears? Or more fancy stuff, like Imps, Sirines, Spiders, baby dragons..."

 

Also, and this is a pet peeve of mine, When item and ability descriptions say: "extra damage"... and then don't specify even a little bit. Like this, for example:

•Crippling Strike (Active) - Full Attack. Inflicts extra damage and the Hobbled condition. 2/encounter

^how much extra damage? Is it a significant amount, like +100% of a rogue's standard weapon damage? less? more? Edited January 28, 2014 by Stun

[JFSOCC]

Looking good. Love the dirty fighting... Ranger is looking good as well.

Few Questions about coordinated positioning: If my rogue is engaged by a few enemies, and switches positions with a friendly fighter, will that fighter be engaged with the enemies attacking the rogue?

Will any active stances/abilites carry over or will they have to be recast?

If the ally the rogue switches with was already engaged with another enemy, will that engagement break or carry over?

 

Are sneak attacks crits, or can they crit for even more damage?

 

Will the rogue be able to benefit from conditions caused by other party members?

 

Will different animal companions feature different strengths and weaknesses? how different would we be talking about?

 

I'd like to know more about the leaders of the band.

Edited January 28, 2014 by JFSOCC

[Noviere]

Great update -- that screenshot looks gorgeous! I'd love for you guys to cover the chanter and the priest next. 

[Kahani]

Can't say I'm totally impressed with this. The entire update could have been replaced with simply "We're copying WoW". Why not try to come up with something original? Or at the very least stick closer to the D&D style this game is supposed to be a call-back to. Rogues were never meant to be amazing fighters who do more than actual fighters, they were deliberately weak in a fight because the game wasn't all about fighting and they had other things to do instead. And as already mentioned by others, the whole point of ranger pets is that they do exactly what a party is supposed to do, so having them in a party-based single player game is just pointless. Even ignoring that, rangers again were supposed to have skills applicable outside of just fighting, not just be "pet to tank while I use a bow". While I wouldn't expect this game to be identical to the games of old, I at least hoped it wouldn't be identical to every other game currently on the market.

[Faelen]

Very nice update, looking forward to the game more and more!

[Elerond]

 

 

So excited to have more information on the classes!

 

Two things I'm worried about: the way Coordinated Positioning is animated is going to be essential to making it smooth and believable as opposed to very "gamey" and I have never been fond of animal companions in party based games. Everything the companion was listed as being for is what the party should be doing, which makes the animal superfluous and kind of useless in a party environment.

 

Just my two cents.

 

Animal companion gives ranger ability to do both ranged and melee harassing at same time, which makes ranger quite unique class. 

 

I'm not suggesting the animal companion makes the ranger bland and generic, just that the role of the animal itself should be played by a party member (such as a fighter or rogue) in a party based game. Why not apply most of those bonuses the ranger and animal get from each other to the whole party instead?

 

Are you guys seeing my kickstarter badge? My profile shows it, but I'm not seeing it when I post.

 

 

That in my opinion would make ranger more supporting character than damage dealer, as s/he would buff other characters attacks instead of his/her own. And in party based game I see additional party member to be more of an advantage than hindrance, as it gives you more flexibility on how you position your characters and what enemies you engage first.

[Utram]

nice update, i like to see " The Front Line" in the next update

[MasterPrudent]

Eye candies, yay ^^

Love the foliage - wonder if you tinkered with it since the last tree-heavy update, because somehow I feel they changed for the better. Especially those spruces. And that dome skeleton? It feels right, fitting, it's arcs on the right angle and such. Just the way I like it - between believable and unbelievable. Though I wouldn't mind an explanation of sorts (from a region lore or maybe some local npc) who and why cleared all the rubles from the structure interiors.

 

Mr Sawyer has got you covered on that front. In the thread for item surveys he said, "The Glanfathans have lived in Eir Glanfath for two millennia. Before them, it was occupied by a relatively unknown civilization known as the Engwithans (who built most of the monuments and holy sites that the Glanfathans now guard)."

[aratuk]

I would be curious to know in a ballpark sort of way how much additional revenue has come in from people completing their orders on the website. I would imagine a lot of people had additional money they were willing to part with by then. I know I did. What percentage of backers still have to complete their orders, anyway? Do most people add money when they do so, or not? Does it look like it's going to affect the project's resources substantially? Too soon to tell?

[Wirdjos]

 

 

Animal companion gives ranger ability to do both ranged and melee harassing at same time, which makes ranger quite unique class. 

 

I'm not suggesting the animal companion makes the ranger bland and generic, just that the role of the animal itself should be played by a party member (such as a fighter or rogue) in a party based game. Why not apply most of those bonuses the ranger and animal get from each other to the whole party instead?

 

Are you guys seeing my kickstarter badge? My profile shows it, but I'm not seeing it when I post.

 

 

That in my opinion would make ranger more supporting character than damage dealer, as s/he would buff other characters attacks instead of his/her own. And in party based game I see additional party member to be more of an advantage than hindrance, as it gives you more flexibility on how you position your characters and what enemies you engage first.

 

Interesting. I hadn't considered the role shift that would occur if the ranger/companion buffs weren't confined to the two of them. I'm still not happy with the idea of an animal supporting the ranger as I feel like that is the party's entire purpose, to support each other. Makes for an excellent solo character though.

[UlrichVonBek]

Many thanks for the update ! Just sharp ! )

[Nonek]

There's (to my mind) a certain dissonance in the Rogues description, quote: "The designation of a character as a "rogue" signifies their vicious, brutal style of fighting." and "Rely on the vulnerability of their enemies to inflict devastating attacks in close quarters." This to me speaks of discipline and superior training in weapons and styles of killing, and where exactly is the Rogue-ishness in that? To me a roguish personality is carefree and undisciplined, not settling down or mastering anything, a wastrel if you will, rather than what we see here which sounds more like a highly trained professional killer of some sort.

 

Anyway enough of the negative waves, thank you for the update.

[ORDUCKMANIAC]

I wonder if they have thought about being able to have multiple animal companions at once... How cool would it be if your whole team could be animals. If not think of the life animal as not taking a slot and being able to summon other animals. For example: I have a hawk that strikes from distence since I am an Archer and don't want to get close and don't want my animal companion to get close or at least not get damaged a lot. I then summon a falcon so now I have my companion and a summoned companion from the air... AIRSTRIKE!!! Anyway, just a thought. Would be cool 

[ORDUCKMANIAC]

Oh and I want to see Wizards and Druids next... Please...

[Bryy]

Jesus H. Hillbillies, archers are going to be ABSOLUTE BEASTS.

[Bearwithme]

I am getting so excited!!!  I would like to know more about animal companions as well, and I think wizards and druids, or clerics would be a good topic for the next update.

[Quadrone]

Nice update!

 

Could we maybe have some examples for the avaible animal companions and what distinguishes them from each other?

 

Oh, and "The Frontline" next please.

 

EDIT: Wouldn't an actual poll be easier to count the votes?

Edited January 29, 2014 by Quadrone

[Wombat]

Will any active stances/abilites carry over or will they have to be recast?

Modal abilities are carried out but active ones are per encounter/rest and instantaneous or expires after a certain duration.  If they are not marked as either (modal or active), I assume that means they are passive.  However, of course, answers from the devs would be much desirable.

 

 

There's (to my mind) a certain dissonance in the Rogues description, quote: "The designation of a character as a "rogue" signifies their vicious, brutal style of fighting." and "Rely on the vulnerability of their enemies to inflict devastating attacks in close quarters." This to me speaks of discipline and superior training in weapons and styles of killing, and where exactly is the Rogue-ishness in that? To me a roguish personality is carefree and undisciplined, not settling down or mastering anything, a wastrel if you will, rather than what we see here which sounds more like a highly trained professional killer of some sort.

Yeah, sounds like an assassin.  However, while I see where you came from, I think the team are doing well in offering the players good IE game (tactical combat heaviness through distinctive units) feel while throwing some interesting screwballs here and there.

 

So...I guess rogue is more or less "evasion" unit after all, except the saves are replaced by the standard attack resolution of PoE.

Edited January 29, 2014 by Wombat

[Johs]

I don't 'dislike' any of the 3 "heavy hitters" but it sounds like you're implying that these are the only 3 heavy hitters. Are more to be announced in the future / can you build your other classes to be focus on single target offense to make up for this?