Steam Box, Nvidia Shield, Steam OS ETC: Not Supporting Controllers in 2014 Released Game Is NOT Forward Thinking

[EternalGamer2]

So I know this topic has been discussed on the forums before but the devs answers always seem to stubbornly be that it's a "niche" audience that plays games this way on PC.  What I want to ask is, if it is such a niche audience way are companies as big as Valve and Nvidia putting significant amount of efforts into supporting big screen experiences?  Why Steam OS, Steam Box and Nvidia Shield?  Are you implying Valve is seeking out a niche audience? Are you assuming the Steambox won't be successful?  Because if not, it makes no sense in 2014 why you would develop a game that seems like it could very easily support controllers w/o even considering it as a viable option.

 

I personally have no problem with keyboard and mouse but I have 3 friends that I personally helped build a PC for in the last year.  All of them game on a TV using Steam Big Picture Mode. I'm pretty sure they aren't alone.  A quick browse of Steam's "Controller Supported Games' (which is an entire category on Steam now) will clearly demonstrate that supporting controllers on PC games is becoming the NORM not the exception.

 

I don't really understand why the designers insist this isn't important.  I don't think they are really thinking about the fact that this game will be out around the same time as the Steam Box and Steam OS are getting their big push.  This seems highly short sighted and stuck in their ways.

[Tamerlane]

... because Obsidian does not believe that their game could very easily support controllers.

 

That's, uh. That's pretty much all there is, man.

[Hassat Hunter]

You are aware that WE are the niche audience right?

Not the console players... cause that's who these initiatives want to reach.

 

And the thruth still remains, to control something like BG on a console you need to severly simpify controls and completely change the system to something which can no longer be recognised. Hence the current RPG's.

 

And we didn't just pay 4 million or more just to get away from that fallacy, not let history repeat itself in it's self-destructive path...

Edited December 13, 2013 by Hassat Hunter

[Amberion]

First, no one ever said it was a niche to play with a controller. Anyone who does say that is delusional or ignorant.

 

This game was kickstarted and advertised up front as a PC game which would play in the style of Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale. Obviously, from the number of people who put forward money for it, this is something people want. If you don't like it, you don't have to buy it.

 

The design decision to go with keyboard/mouse should not indicate lack of faith in the console style of play. It's simply what they wanted to do.

[Mungri]

If you want this game to be made for controllers then just go jump in a fire. That is all. The fire will fix everything, I promise.

[Grivenger]

If you want this game to be made for controllers then just go jump in a fire. That is all. The fire will fix everything, I promise.

That's a really weird statement to make. . .

 

Due to their touchpad thingies the steam prototype controllers seem capable of handling the type of gameplay similar to the Infinity games, but I doubt it will ever feel as natural as a mouse and keyboard setup.

 

 

[Tamerlane]

Fire will save us all.

[Darth Trethon]

I'm not sure that going for their own OS is a smart move from Valve. It demands special time, money and resources from developers and unless they can sell a lot of millions of Steam machines or convince a lot of millions to adapt their OS they won't get that support from developers regardless of whether the Steam Machine/OS can walk on water or not.

 

This begs the question of how many PC gamers are not happy with their machines and how many console gamers are really going to pay attention.....the price is still likely to be more forbidding than the PS4/Xbox One and it will still suffer from problems that plague the PC....DRM, specs, PC instability....etc. This won't be the gaming machine with the benefits of the PC and convenience of consoles without any of the problems.

 

Valve can hype it all they want but for now it makes no sense for Osidian to sink time and resources into support for the Steam OS.....as of now it still has zero users.

[Justinian]

The reasoning is so simple I can't believe how anyone can be confused:

 

1) A game designed for a precision pointer like a mouse is impossible to play on a gamepad. This rules out consoles.

 

2) Redesigning the game to work well with 2 completely different control schemes requires significant extra resources and most certainly results in compromises to gameplay.

 

The Steambox is a solution to a problem no one has. The only reason it exists is to play PC ports of console games on a TV and so that Valve have something to compete with in the battle of the living room against the next gen consoles.

[Flow]

There are two gaming PCs in my house. One sits next to my TV with a 360 controller wireless receiver attached, and one sits under my desk. I love using the Steam Box (which is how I think of it) for lots of games, but there are certain types of games that just work better with keyboard & mouse. The thought of trying to play an Infinity Engine-style game with a console controller makes me very, very sad.

[EternalGamer2]

The reasoning is so simple I can't believe how anyone can be confused:

 

1) A game designed for a precision pointer like a mouse is impossible to play on a gamepad. This rules out consoles.

 

2) Redesigning the game to work well with 2 completely different control schemes requires significant extra resources and most certainly results in compromises to gameplay.

 

The Steambox is a solution to a problem no one has. The only reason it exists is to play PC ports of console games on a TV and so that Valve have something to compete with in the battle of the living room against the next gen consoles.

But correct me if I"m wrong but this is a turn based strategy RPG.

 

How do you explain someting like XCOM which works amazingly well with a controller.

[rustypup]

What's with all the corporate shills pushing the console-dogma... 

 

Enough. 

 

@Darth Trethon: 

The console *is* the DRM...  ignoring the fact that Ubisoft/EA et al are now including their own personal idiocy in that regard on top of it... 

[Ink Blot]

I believe the whole point of this kickstarter was not to be 'forward thinking'. You know, what with the whole 2d isometric PC exclusive nod to the old IE games thing...

[Ganrich]

People already paid for this game to be mouse driven. They paid Obsidian to make this game in the IE image. Which means... Mouse and keyboard.

 

The steam controller can play

"Papers, Please", and that is a mouse driven game. Maybe, it could play an IE inspired game that has very heavy UI like Pillars of Eternity.

 

Sorry, that the SHIELD can't be supported, though. Maybe SHIELD 2.0 will be a Valve Controller instead of the Xbox-esque one.

[Pshaw]

It's just an issue of the control scheme not working well on controllers and there being limited developement funds. If you think that it doesn't cost money to add controller support you're mistaken. Otherwise so many games that are both console and PC releases would have control schemes that were less clunky on PC. Skyrim at launch and Borderlands both spring to mind as games with clunky menu navigation as a reasult of not having keyboard and mouse support added properly.

I never played Dragon Age on a console but I'm pretty sure friendly fire on spells it turned off entirely to prevent you from blowing up your own party members as they recgonize how annoying it is to aim spells with a targeting redical mid combat with a controller. So rather than make a poor controller set up  in favor of a keyboard and mouse (or vice versa) they simply chose to ignore the fromer. Which in truth is fine as they never intended this game to be a console game to begin with and like many other PC games it chooses to eschew controller support when they know it won't fit with the gameplay style at all.

[AwesomeOcelot]

But correct me if I"m wrong but this is a turn based strategy RPG.

 

How do you explain someting like XCOM which works amazingly well with a controller.

a) Eternity is not turn based.

 

b) XCOM: Enemy Unknown is terrible with a controller, and even worse with a mouse (when it would be much better if designed for mouse only). It would be the example I'd point to when people say that designing for mouse and gamepad doesn't compromise either. You have obviously never played a turn based strategy game designed for a mouse.

 

Did we really need another thread of someone who apparently knows nothing about this? Go away console peasants.

 

I don't really understand why the designers insist this isn't important. I don't think they are really thinking about the fact that this game will be out around the same time as the Steam Box and Steam OS are getting their big push. This seems highly short sighted and stuck in their ways.

Steam controller has 2 touchpads, touchpad is fully compatible with a mouse even if it's inferior, it operates like a trackball. There's a reason Valve doesn't think analogue sticks are a good idea for Steam Machines.

[Night Stalker]

 

But correct me if I"m wrong but this is a turn based strategy RPG.

 

How do you explain someting like XCOM which works amazingly well with a controller.

a) Eternity is not turn based.

 

Pillars of Eternity is Real Time with Pause (RTwP). You may be thinking of Torment: Tides of Numenera which indeed is Turn-Based, or Wasteland 2 (which is also Turn-Based), both of which are being made by inXile entertainment.

Edited December 13, 2013 by Night Stalker

[Gumbercules]

Obsidian is developing a Linux version of Pillars of Eternity, which means it already should be able to run on Steamboxes. Additionally, Valve is designing the Steambox controller to work with mouse-and-keyboard-based games even if they don't support it natively. Therefore, there is no need for Obsidian to waste any of their limited time and resources to specifically design the game for controllers and couches, especially before anyone knows if that's even an important market segment.

[anameforobsidian]

They've said multiple times that the playstyle just won't support controllers.  I imagine a clever user could put xpadder in, but what's the point.

[PrimeJunta]

I've asked it before when this comes up, but, I'll ask it again. How many console owners do you think don't also own a low-end PC capable of running PoE? Of those, how many do you think would be interested in playing an isometric party-based cRPG with lots of reading mixed with tactical combat and character-building?

[EternalGamer2]

I've asked it before when this comes up, but, I'll ask it again. How many console owners do you think don't also own a low-end PC capable of running PoE? Of those, how many do you think would be interested in playing an isometric party-based cRPG with lots of reading mixed with tactical combat and character-building?

All of you guys seem to be missing the fact that this game will be launching about the same time the Steam Box starts rolling out to full release.

 

A shiny "Project Eternity, Big Screen, Full Controller Support" icon on it's sales page sure would do wonders for the games sales at that point.  But maybe they don't really care about sales they get after the kickstarter.

 

I also really don't understand the hostility a lot of PC gamers have towards controllers.  I am a PC gamer myself.  I don't even intend to buy either of these next gen systems, but I enjoy playing games w/ a controller that allow me to lean back in my chair and prop my feet up.  I don't understand how a pause-based strategic RPG is not the ideal kind of game for this play style.  It's not a twitch FPS game where you have to hover over the screen for pixel precise kills in split seconds.

 

I'll be playing the game regardless, but I know a good number of friends that won't even have that option since they play all their PC games on a TV now and certainly they are alienating themselves from the SteamBox base.  For the little amount of work this would take, it just seem really lacking in forsight not to include this feature when a huge PC push that is all about big screen play is coming out the same damn time as this game.

[Tale]

For the little amount of work this would take,

You have no idea how much work it will take. The developers have stated they believe adjusting for controllers will require concessions. And I'm skeptical of the idea that you somehow know more than they do in this regard.

[Ink Blot]

I think you're missing the fact that the Obs devs said the game isn't the style of game that would support controller play all that well. Also, you're assuming it would be a 'little amount of work' to do this. The devs seem to think otherwise.

[Ganrich]

You seem to be missing the fact that Valve's Official Controller makes it a non-issue. The point of the touch pads are to make games like this playable on the living room. It has been stated by valve themselves, and myself and others in this very thread. Why design the game for controllers that aren't being sold with steam machines?

[MReed]

 

I've asked it before when this comes up, but, I'll ask it again. How many console owners do you think don't also own a low-end PC capable of running PoE? Of those, how many do you think would be interested in playing an isometric party-based cRPG with lots of reading mixed with tactical combat and character-building?

All of you guys seem to be missing the fact that this game will be launching about the same time the Steam Box starts rolling out to full release.

 

A shiny "Project Eternity, Big Screen, Full Controller Support" icon on it's sales page sure would do wonders for the games sales at that point.  But maybe they don't really care about sales they get after the kickstarter.

 

I also really don't understand the hostility a lot of PC gamers have towards controllers.  I am a PC gamer myself.  I don't even intend to buy either of these next gen systems, but I enjoy playing games w/ a controller that allow me to lean back in my chair and prop my feet up.  I don't understand how a pause-based strategic RPG is not the ideal kind of game for this play style.  It's not a twitch FPS game where you have to hover over the screen for pixel precise kills in split seconds.

 

I'll be playing the game regardless, but I know a good number of friends that won't even have that option since they play all their PC games on a TV now and certainly they are alienating themselves from the SteamBox base.  For the little amount of work this would take, it just seem really lacking in forsight not to include this feature when a huge PC push that is all about big screen play is coming out the same damn time as this game.

 

 

You are totally missing the point of both this game and Kickstarters for video game's in general:

 

You are 100% correct that making the game controller failure would dramatically improve sales.  I mean, even a bad port would likely double, if not triples sales.  Additional obvious adjustments to increase sales would be to include multiplayer support, full voice over, adding "action-iy" elements, such as full 3D + 3rd person POV..  I don't think anyone here would debate this, including Obsidian.

 

But...

 

If that was the game that Obsidion wanted to make, there never would have been a Kickstarter.  It is highly probable that some publisher would have been more than willing to finance the development of the game, probably to the tune of $15-20 million.

 

The goal of the Kickstarter is to make a game that will not be a commercial success, or at least, seems very unlikely to be a commercial success.  In this case, it means making a PC exclusive game with no multiplayer support, no voice over, fixed isometric point-of-view, and so forth.  Inevitably, the consequences of these decisions, along with the fact that a good portion of their sales have already occurred means that relatively few units will be sold at retail.  I'd be very surprised (& pleased!) if this game breaks $1 million (20k sales) in revenue, and feel $250k (5k sales),  And that's fine, because even if it doesn't sell a single unit Obsidian breaks even (theoretically, at least -- given game development budgets, I suspect an overrun is likely).

 

Now, if it turns out that the Stream controller and Streambox allow this game to be played in the living room, then...  I have absolutely no objection to it.  If that's how you enjoy playing your PC games, more power to you.  But as soon as Obsidion spends even one second considering "Gee, if we changed this it would work much better on the StreamBox / with the Stream controller", then I object -- violently.