Update #58: Crafting with Tim Cain!

[Nixl]

 

Not necessarily advocating this, but we always use gold to buy components in RPGs, but has there ever been an RPG where gold is an actual component? In other words, using gold in ways other than buying. 

 

I think gold/currency is one mechanic that I have not seen played around with ever (exception may be Dark Souls). 

Well, there was the bottlecap mine in Fallout 3 and New Vegas.

 

Edit: And the 12 gauge coin shot from New Vegas that used legion denarii.

 

 

Cannot believe that I forgot New Vegas considering how much I played it.  Kudos to your memory. 

[Blackstream]

Couple things of note for me.

 

I'm sure the devs are already discussing internally how to balance found loot with crafted loot, and ideally neither one should obsolete the other, and possibly should work off each other to be even better. It would be equally depressing to have an end game where the best builds require legendary sword X found in level 14 of the megadungeon and armor Y found off the fairy king in the Dark Woods story arc, etc etc, as it would be to have an end game where the best armor and weapons are crafted and you might as well not even go loot hunting.

 

If the devs want to put in a way for people to level crafting without leveling it on their party members, they could always put in a blacksmith/cook/enchanter npc that you can level by giving them work and materials (and money).  Or possibly that join your quest and sit in your base and you can go back to them to have them make you stuff.

 

As far as the kind of stuff I want out of the crafting systems, speaking as someone that loves to make builds, and will spend hours obsessing over build and gear design, the things I like to look for are:

 

1) Non homogenous gear. Diablo III is a good example of what I don't want. Everything is +stats, +crit (in some form), and +ias, and nothing else matters. Every skill works off of weapon damage, and every weapon gives weapon damage that works with every skill (with a few exceptions). Diablo II on the other hand, has good examples of non-homogenous gear. There's lots of things to build for that are all super helpful, and work for different casters. IAS, FHR, weird stuff like auras, specific +skills, on hit effects, etc.

 

Translating to  IE style games, I don't have a ton of examples, but even BG had interesting things to build for, even in D&D's system which is fairly homogenous (weapons are dice of damage and an enhancement bonus, armor has an AC and an enhancement bonus... woo). Most of them revolved around unique gear you could find around the world. Casters with hacked out -cast time gear, stacking magic resist gear on certain classes to make them immune to magic. Filling holes in stats with specific uber gear (giant strength belts, human influence ring, dex gauntlets). And so on. The gear in BG was fairly straight forward, but it was also interesting. 

 

So I guess what I'm looking for is a lot of interesting affixes that make building interesting, and not just one big game of stack the 4 or 5 stats that matter.

 

2) Wacky affixes that allow for interesting builds. Somewhat touched on above, but this is a more specific thing. Things like the simulacrum helmet, or armor that has a chance to turn you invisible everytime someone swings at you. A ring that lets you summon dire wolves once a day. A sword that has a % chance of stunning the target everytime you hit (...>_>). A dagger that gives you health when you backstab, a shield that makes your charges not provoke. Things like that, that you know will make some truely BS endgame builds, but are cool at the same time.

 

3) Sounds like you guys are planning on this already, but all the really good stuff should require questing and exploring to find. Materials, recipies, whatever. Divine favor as a 'material' component might be interesting as a sidenote.

 

 

I dunno, just rambling, but I like where the system is going and it probably covers all these things already, but I just wanted to ramble on a bit.

[Undecaf]

 

Also, no other opinion on moneysink gear than there could be a balance between found and bought. Some things could be made by an exceptionally talented smith/enchater, or be one of a kind items kept as decoratives before being bought, some things can be just artifacts of different power found in the nature. Maybe the best bow in the realm is hanging on some rich guys wall; maybe the best armor is yet to be created; maybe the best sword is laying at the 15th floor of the megadungeon under the feet of a vaporform troglodyte that can not be killed by usual means (or at all). Or something.

 

Arguably one good thing in this regard is that we're going to have a boatload of unique items thanks to our backers.  For the sake of sanity, we may very well need to put many unique items in stores to prevent barrels from overflowing with them (slight exaggeration).

 

 

Sounds very fitting remembering the campaign.

 

By the way, are item-sets ruled out? You know, the need to buy (or find, or both) the whole set in order to recieve a larger bonus of some kind.

Edited July 3, 2013 by Undecaf

[Blackstream]

I'd like to tune standard, at-level encounters on normal difficulty to not require the use of consumables.  However, efficiency will be a bigger deal both on higher levels of difficulty and if you're under-leveled for a specific encounter.  In those cases, consumable use will likely be, if not mandatory, extremely helpful.

I like this, by the way. Consumables are a good way of providing depth to a combat, and making battles so hard you have to use them (although, chances are there are going to be builds that don't need them... it's just a thing that usually ends up happening), in my opinion really adds in the element of danger and feels like you're working for your victory.

 

EDIT:

Editing this post so I don't just have a post spam going on.

 

I've noticed a lot of people hate item durability. I'm not entirely sure why, as it's always been a minor inconvenience at worst and adds a little bit of immersion, but I feel like the best solution for everyone as it doesn't really add anything to gameplay (unless you make items that have an effect on damage or while damaged), would be to move item durability to expert mode (which is, IIRC, PE's Fallout NV hardcore mode effectively). That way, people that want the game mechanics that give them inconvenience for realism's sake can have it, and the people that don't, won't. Since it's expert (or hardcore or whatever), you could add in weapon's permanently breaking if you use them too long while damaged too.

 

As far as crafting, I'm a little surprised at the general outlook on it. Maybe it's just the vocal minority, but the crafting system is exactly what I expected, and more or less hoped it would be. I mean, you could create some kind of crazy skill-based crafting minigame to make the actual act of crafting a challenge too, with greater rewards for doing really well, but I'm sure people would hate that just as much. I think people assume too much about how the material gathering is gonna go though. I'd be willing to bet that common crafting materials (wood, silk, iron) will be buyable from npcs (as well as gatherable if you want to iron man it), and the important stuff will be found from quests (special materials, recipies, likely boss drops and found in chests and stuff). I don't really see them requiring you to grind out minotaurs to gather horns so that you can get 10 horns that you can grind down into a powder or whatever. Basically what I'm saying is, this system could go a million different ways depending on how they decide to implement it. On top of that, there are gonna be people that like and hate the system no matter what they do, and I think everyone should keep that in mind. I mean, there are multiple people in this thread alone that think they didn't go far enough with item durability loss.

 

Finally, to answer the question "What do I want to spend gold on?"

 

I think some legendary weapons and items should be buyable. The rest should be findable/craftable. The best gear should be findable in the end game only, but you'll likely want to buy gear on the way as it'll be more accessible and will give you an edge up on getting to that gear in the first place.

The crafting system should be a money sink of sorts, especially for making potions. Making uber weapons should cost money, the ingredients for making consumables should probably be non-trivial, especially the uber ones. For those that don't wanna craft, just buying the consumables from NPCs should also be viable, but at a somewhat higher cost.

Stronghold/player housing stuff

 

At some point, it'd be nice if the players get super rich anyways and feel like they can buy the world. Higher difficulties, due to higher reliance on consumables, should make it something of a struggle to make money.

Edited July 3, 2013 by Blackstream

[Abbie]

On crafting...

 

Someone above seemed to suggest that crafting was fun on games that made it "feel cool".  I totally agree, and while I think crafting is good all the time, I worry slightly (only slightly) about games like Divinity Original Sin where crafting seems to be simply putting two things together.  Add a really interesting, unique, fun feel to crafting and I think it'll be a win with most people. 

 

This might seem pointless to add, but I think it definitely needs said.  Things that are crafted should be *really* useful.  I think the only way crafting would be un-fun is if the items you could make were pointless.  There are big titles that do this, so it might not be as silly as it sounds. 

 

Great work, you guys!  I love what I'm seeing!

[WotanAnubis]

I'd like a sincere answer to this question, though I know not all of you are of the same mind: what do you want to spend (in-game) money on?

 

Gear, gear mods and decorations.

 

Whenever I get to a new town, I always head to the local store to upgrade all my armour and weapons. Unless I can loot all my armour and weapons off of enemies. Then I don't. I mean, why buy if I can get it for free? Trouble is, in games with a lot of loot, most of the time the loot is just plain better than what the shops sell so I don't have any reason to buy gear.

 

Mods and upgrades.

Aesthetics are very important to me, so if I find some gear I simply like the looks of, I'll want to keep it around for as long as possible. Now, most of the time, it's the end-game stuff that looks the most awesome, so I got no problem ditching my old stuff for the shiny new thing. But sometimes that's not the case - for example, I really like the Laser Pistol in New Vegas. Because it's an ugly, bulky piece of crap and more or less exactly what I imagine early laser weapons will actually look like. I like having it around, so I am more than willing to spend a bunch of cash on mods to enhance its viability as a weapon.

As another example, Skyrim allows you to use crafting materials to upgrade your existing stuff to give it better stats. I like this too, because it simply means that the gear I like will be statistically useful for longer as well.

So yeah. I will happily spend money on stuff that will allow me to use my favourite weapons and armour for longer without the game punishing me for it.

 

And finally, we have customization. Because of the way the game looks, I doubt there'll be much point in customizing the looks of the characters, but I would still appreciating being able to buy dyes or something to colour cloaks and non-metal armour. Maybe emblazon shields with various symbols or whatever.

But more importantly, we get a Stronghold, right? I want to buy paintings and statues and furniture and maybe some rose bushes and a decorative oak tree and carpets and drapes and chandeliers and oh my word I will spend so much money on interior decorating and landscaping if the game will let me. Provided the interface doesn't suck like Fable's.

 

When it comes to things I don't spend my money on, it's consumables and unique gear. Unless I'm playing Skies of Arcadia, I'm likely to rob enough health potions from the enemy that I simply won't need to buy any. The exception to this is ammo, of course, but only in games where melee either isn't viable or doesn't quite fit the tone of the setting.

I also don't tend to buy unique stuff because it wouldn't feel earned. Acquiring the Legendary Blade Of Awesome Myth by tossing a few coppers at some random merchant just feels so anticlimactic.

[Lysen]

Honestly, I am totally fine with the current system (which was described in the last update). Durability might be of some concern, because

 

I don't want to keep up with repairs and stuff for eight different characters. I could accept it in New Vegas, only controlling one character

 

but I don't think this is such a big issue.

 

I worked on IWD, HoW, TotL, and IWD2.  In virtually all of these games, I heard these two complaints over and over and over:

 

When unique items were in stores:

* I don't want to buy unique items in stores.

 

When unique items were in dungeons:

* I have nothing to spend my money on.

 

I usually hoard money so I could buy some cool items in stores. And I am also okay with finding them in dungeons.

 

There are recurring trends I'm seeing:

 

* Don't like crafting.

* Don't like durability.

* Don't like consumables.

 

Hmm, people don't want consumables, crafting, durability? I don't even know what to say, my English skills are failing me.

Edited July 3, 2013 by Lysen

[Fearabbit]

I'd like to add that crafting unique technological items in Arcanum must have been my favorite feature ever. And it was a natural money sink. It went like this:

1. You leveled up one of your Technology trees and got a new recipe, or you found a recipe and thought it looked and sounded awesome.
2. You noticed that you don't have any of the necessary items.
3. You spent days going from shop to shop, hoping that the items would turn up.
4. You buy the items at a very high price (much higher than what you'll get if you sell the crafted item).
5. You build the item, excited to find out what it does (this is the point where you also find out that Arcanum has horrible balancing and the recipe you gained two levels earlier was actually better than this one, but nevermind)
6. You use the item proudly and with the knowledge that not only is it unique, it is also a unique item that you have created. You cackle maniacally while feeling truly powerful for the first time in your life.

 

So for half of the unique items, this would be the perfect compromise. You don't buy them in the store, but you buy the ingredients in the store (or occasionally find them, but who's patient enough for that?), and you get the ability to build them at a certain level. In this case, the items wouldn't be technological, but magical. Which is not much of a difference except that the maniacal laughter will be even louder.

 

Of course most of the unique items should still be loot. But that feeling in Arcanum where you actually felt like you had created something... I want to feel that again.

[Labadal]

Honestly, I am totally fine with the current system (which was described in the last update). Durability might be of some concern, because

 

I don't want to keep up with repairs and stuff for eight different characters. I could accept it in New Vegas, only controlling one character

 

but I don't think this is such a big issue.

 

I don't like it in any game to be honest. I just didn't think it was as big of a chore in a game with one controllable character. I don't like item degradation in general. I didn't like it in Arcanum and I didn't like it in Dragon Age: Origins.

[Ieo]

 

There are recurring trends I'm seeing:

 

* Don't like crafting.

* Don't like durability.

* Don't like consumables.

 

Hmm, people don't want consumables, crafting, durability? I don't even know what to say, my English skills are failing me.

 

They tend to be different audiences and/or different playstyles and expectations.

 

* I like crafting... if it's meaningful and not overly busywork (for difficult encounters, customization, whatever)

* I don't like durability... unless it's meaningful like in MMO implementations that encourage smart play and avoid death, as resource management.

* I don't like consumables when I don't know when I "should" use them (thus hoarding the "special" ones that are either rare on vendors or hard to make), but I like consumables when they're easy to make or somewhat common and I don't have to worry about my conservative hoarder mindset.

 

Keep in mind:

 

* The IE games did not have significant crafting; many have pointed out that BG2's implementation is a very easy form tied to content.

* None of the IE games had durability. (Edit: Besides BG1, which is entirely story-based!)

* Consumables were an issue in IE games, particularly the non-healing potions (hoarding and inventory). Crafting might mitigate that. Dunno.

Edited July 3, 2013 by Ieo

[decado]

I'd like a sincere answer to this question, though I know not all of you are of the same mind: what do you want to spend (in-game) money on?

 

I want to spend it on

 

1) Good items

2) Consumables

3) Repairs

4) General upkeep

 

Frankly, I don't understand people who have a problem with buying unique or nice items.  As long as they are appropriately priced, how is buying them somehow a derogatory exercise?  Spending your hard earned cash on stuff represents a significant investment.  A lot of people may cringe at this reference, but Dragon Age did a great job at balancing awesome found weapons and awesome bought weapons (until the expansions came by and ruined everything, because they were dumb about it.  But whatever.)  It's possible, and it can be a great part of the game.

 

 

Finally, I want to spend my money to complete game objectives.  Several people have mentioned BGII as a great example, and I think this idea tends to get lost in the mix.  I feel like money is always treated as some meta-gamed system that exists -- in many ways, at least -- outside the mechanics of the game itself.  Spending money to complete game objectives is a really nice way to 1) highlight the value of money and 2) keep it from deflating the economy.

[Malekith]

I'd like a sincere answer to this question, though I know not all of you are of the same mind: what do you want to spend (in-game) money on?

 

I worked on IWD, HoW, TotL, and IWD2.  In virtually all of these games, I heard these two complaints over and over and over:

 

When unique items were in stores:

* I don't want to buy unique items in stores.

 

When unique items were in dungeons:

* I have nothing to spend my money on.

 

In all of these games, items you found on adventures were almost always one of the following: a) directly usable (i.e. gear or consumables) b) wealth items or c) quest items.  If something wasn't usable, it was usually a wealth item (gold, gem, etc.).  A wealth item only existed to give you gold, but for gold to have some sort of value, there needs to be something you want that costs x gold.  If high-value items aren't what you spend your gold on, what do you spend your gold on?  In PE, you may spend gold on your stronghold, but there's no guarantee of that.  And according to a lot of you, you don't use consumables, so if consumables aren't used, they're just wealth items -- not something you would want to spend gold on.

 

Part of the reason for having a crafting system was to make consumables less common in the world.  Only people who want to make/use them would see a relatively large quantity of them.  Since crafting ingredients are stored and sorted separately from other items, their presence subtracts nothing from the carrying capabilities of players who ignore the system entirely.

 

There are recurring trends I'm seeing:

 

* Don't like crafting.

* Don't like durability.

* Don't like consumables.

 

Combining those with with the two points at the top, it's hard for me to figure out where the gold is going to go.  There is also the possibility that players don't actually want a long-term gold economy in a SP game, that gold in the mid- and late-game is ultimately something to accumulate and that most/all forms of gear upgrading simply happens through quests and exploration.  That's not an invalid way to go, but I'd like to hear thoughts on it if you have the time.

My thoughts in this:

First issue:

When unique items were in stores: * I don't want to buy unique items in stores

I think the main problem with this is how much unique the item is and what kind of store. People like to think that unique items are rare,special things that can't be recreated and most people in the world haven't seen. When you can buy it from a store, it looses  something af its allure. Possible solutions: Make a reason for the store to have them. Maybe a realy special store that it's difficult to gain entrance and deals only with special items? Bonus points if the seller is unique himself. (I don't think I ever heard anyone complain about the "Adventurer's Mart" or the Collector's Edition shop but I may be wrong).

 

Second issue:

When unique items were in dungeons: * I have nothing to spend my money on

Good moneysinks: player house,player stronghold. That way you have something to spent your money on.If you don't want it's not the game's problem.

Crafting consumables. Again if you don't want them, not the game's problem.

Cromwell/Cespenar blacksmith. Have parts of special artifacts through the game and have a special blacksmith/mage to remake them. I think it's the only type of crafting everyone likes. Have more items than BG2 did and make the reforging more excpencive. I remember replaying the game solely to find parts that i didn't find in my first playthroughs.

Have options in quest solutions that bribery/spending money in some way is an option.

 

My thoughts on crafting in general:

I think crafting has a place in the game as long as:

It's for consumeables/minor trinkets,basic loot. Better yet if it's existing in it's own space like in the Witcher games.

Have it only for cosmetic/color changes in existing items.

What it should never do is devalue items found or bought. You shouldn't be able to modify legentary items or even worse making them yourself. IE games were the only games i have played that items felt special, had a history and were memorable. hand written histories were a part of the kickstarter pitch as well. The whole notion that you could make you own loot that is equal to these items devalues them way more than having to buy them from stores.

 

 

Part of the reason for having a crafting system was to make consumables less common in the world.  Only people who want to make/use them would see a relatively large quantity of them.  Since crafting ingredients are stored and sorted separately from other items, their presence subtracts nothing from the carrying capabilities of players who ignore the system entirely

 

Actually i love that.

 

 

Item durability:

That is the only thing in the update that i'm defenently against 100%. I have yet to see a game that item durability were anything else than mindless busywork. It's not strategic or anything. Unlike spirit eater mechanic in MotB or time limit in Fallout that were extra level of worry( and still people in general disliked them), item durability in Arcanum(the closer excample this update reminded me of) was an extra bother.

In  formspring you said that a good question for game mechanics is how fun something is. Answer me that. Where is the fun in returning to town to push the repair all button in a blacksmith every couple of days. For me is more of an irritation.

 

Also,you answer of wasting points. How is it different from lockpick for example? If you put points in lockpick or ancient poetry or many other skills, and then take rogue companion, you wasted these lockpick points. Your party should cover a broad spectrum of skills. If you make skills that are better for every party member to have points in those, you will make all party members have the same skills. Not a good thing in my book. Stealth is the exception and not the rule that a skill should be usefull in all party members.

 

Hope that i helped, at least to understand where some complains come from.

Edited July 3, 2013 by Malekith

[decado]

 

Honestly, I am totally fine with the current system (which was described in the last update). Durability might be of some concern, because

 

I don't want to keep up with repairs and stuff for eight different characters. I could accept it in New Vegas, only controlling one character

 

but I don't think this is such a big issue.

 

I don't like it in any game to be honest. I just didn't think it was as big of a chore in a game with one controllable character. I don't like item degradation in general. I didn't like it in Arcanum and I didn't like it in Dragon Age: Origins.

 

 

Uhhh. . . . DA:O didn't have a durability stat for weapons.

[Morgulon the Wise]

Please include dwarven bread-weapons for the cooking skill. (Terry Pratchett)

[floyd ryan]

I'd like a sincere answer to this question, though I know not all of you are of the same mind: what do you want to spend (in-game) money on?

 

 

• HIghest quality equipment (but not unique)
• Unique crafting materials (that require high crafting skill and other pieces that cannot be bought)
• Stronghold (hiring mercs, merchants, concubines, etc. and infrastructure related stuff)
• Quests!! (bribes, alternative solutions, mercs that clean areas)
• Very fast travel (for special occasion if time matters)
• Bail out in game economy and thereby gain control over certain aspects of in game politics etc 

[Elerond]

I like buy or order (smith or some one else does thing from ingredients that you provide) artifacts that are actually useful in the game even in the end. Some people say that you should find most powerful artifact by exploring world, but my opinion is that it is as viable option to buy most powerful artifacts (even uniques) with the money that you got by exploring world. 

 

Buying property and upgrading it is also usually quite fun way to use money. Buying homes or stronghold is quite nice way to use money especially if it opens my game play, like governing people/area and so causing changes in the world.

 

Consumables is good way to use money as you can strategic depth (preparation is key to success) in the game or give player ability make encounters easier. Although in latter case I have tendency neither buy or use  consumables, as I always think that I will find better way to use my money (which rarely occurs).

 

Crafting is in my opinion good way to use money (by things needing ingredients that you can't find by exploring and paying fee for using crafting place or building one in your home/base/stronghold/etc.), if you can make better items that you can find, so ability to upgrade any weapon via crafting is something that I would like to see. Although I don't mind if I can't change upgrades to better ones later on in the game.

 

Using money to repairing, bribing, buying information, resting, healing, traveling and other things that simulate real world pending is okay in my mind.  

 

Usually economies of rpgs suffer from endless money syndrome, meaning that your character will get more money in the game than s/he can any intelligent way to use, which causes that buy-able artifacts can become too easy to get.  And it also means that you don't need to think if you could afford to use money in bribes if you want also get full plate of doom and sword of dragon slaying, as you know that you will find enough money to buy all stuff what you want and bribe every person in world and still be millionaire.  Which is reason why I would like to see that there isn't endless amounts of money in the world, but player need to think where s/he puts his/her precious coins.

Edited July 3, 2013 by Elerond

[Walsingham]

Something I fear you chaps may have forgotten:

 

Felicia Day gets terribly excited about crafting things in Skyrim.

 

I for one rather like the notion of Felicia Day getting all excited.

[TheUnoNameless]

I'd like a sincere answer to this question, though I know not all of you are of the same mind: what do you want to spend (in-game) money on?

 

- Consumables, but only as long as they are meaningful and interesting. Not +1 damage, but some cool effect that creates a new tactical situation.

- Stronghold customization and unlocking "side quests". Basically have a little adventure that requires investment to unlock.

- Interacting with game world - guilds, political systems, bribes, etc.

- Hiring an NPC, as long as it's a cool NPC, not generic "mercenary" with no character.

 

What I DON'T want to spend money on:

- Magic items. Objects of power should not be sold, there's nothing interesting or heroic in shopping, no matter how expensive the item is.

- Item repair. I hate the idea of interrupting the adventure to run to town and repair. Ugh.

[Zed]

Here's what I'd like to spend money on:

 

• Crafting fee. Like in BG2. Worked perfectly. But having player crafting ruins this.
• Stronghold stuff, maybe. I don't know what you're planning with this. Personally I think a stronghold serves no purpose.
• Buying services in the world. Transportration, mercenaries.
• Smart investments. Maybe Carl the Adventurer is putting together an expedition to an undiscolsed location. For 20k he'll give you the location on your map and will abandon his own expedition (or will he?! du-du-duuuu). Whatever, it's not hard to come up with gold and payments as part of a questline.

 

But I would like to ask why hoarding money is an issue?

Why can't the player run around with a million gold coins after 40 hours of gameplay? Who does it hurt?

 

I've never heard anyone complain about having too much gold in BG for instance.

[Labadal]

 

 

 

 

Honestly, I am totally fine with the current system (which was described in the last update). Durability might be of some concern, because

 

 

I don't want to keep up with repairs and stuff for eight different characters. I could accept it in New Vegas, only controlling one character

but I don't think this is such a big issue.

I don't like it in any game to be honest. I just didn't think it was as big of a chore in a game with one controllable character. I don't like item degradation in general. I didn't like it in Arcanum and I didn't like it in Dragon Age: Origins.

Uhhh. . . . DA:O didn't have a durability stat for weapons.

Whatever game it was, I didn't like it.

[Cultist]

I like crafting.

It is well established feature of RPGs and tend to enchance overall quality of the game.

I like consumables.

Frankly, I can';t even imagine an RPG without consumables. Just have to avoid situations when consumables become spammable.

I hate durability.

It adds nothing, except for constant annoyance. Remember Hardcore mode from FNV, after a whiule it just become boring and routine feature, ahrdly adding to survival athmosphere. Players could only make them matter after modding them A LOT into being unforgiving. I don't want to see this in PE. Infinity games fared well without this controversal mechanic, and i bet PE will do as well.

 

Now, why such bipolar approach? Unique items in shops OR unique items in dungeons. Why not both. have SOME unique items in shops, and SOME in dungeons\quests\etc. That way all problems would be eliminated and both parties would be happy:

- Those who want to buy items in shops could do it and sink their money.

- Those who want to earn them in figth could do it as well.

To be honest, I can't understand why not combine Arcanum and BG2 crafting system. Noone complained about them and PE will only benefit from best of two worlds. Cromwell took fees for crafting powerful items, and that was a significant fees. Arcanum allowed you to craft unique and versalite items from low-level materials, and this items were almost impossible to obtain in game shops, so crafting was always useful.

 

As for money sink:

- Consumables.

- Upgrading.

- Quests - to get some alternative solution for significant money, BG2 act1 for example.

- Stronghold.

- Resting.

- Services, like instant magic shop\stash access.

- Travelling fees.

- Investments.

Edited July 3, 2013 by Cultist

[Tsuga C]

Dear Obsidian,

Will there be some deviant crafting recipes?  For example, if we need to increase our magical prowess and elves are naturally gifted with arcane magic, will any recipes require the blood/internal organs of elves?

 

As for the durability factor of our arms and panoplies, I would hope that that's primarily limited to low-to-mid levels.  If P:E is a 30 level system, by level 20 I'd hope to have grown beyond the need to maintain the equivalent of a D&D +3/+6 Frostband.  Or isn't magical enhancement all that permanent in this world?

[teknoman2]

^

elvenskin leather vest

defence 5

dexterity + 4

charisma + 1

50% resistance to sleep

15% resistance to magic

-100% reputation with elves

durability 98/120

 

materials needed

5 elf skins

2 elf entrails

10 female elf hair

1 scroll of dark binding

 

the fact that it is recipe based and the crafting window will show what's possible to craft and what not is good. in NWN2 i really hated that i had to find the book, read it, go to the forge, put the items in, read the book again to make sure i didnt make any mistakes, craft the item, then go find another book for the enchantment.

i hope though that we will be allowed to experiment with our ingedients, to make random items and save/learn the recipes

Edited July 3, 2013 by teknoman2

[Monte Carlo]

 

 

will any recipes require the blood/internal organs of elves?

 

I approve of this organ-harvesting malarkey. A lot.

[TheUnoNameless]

Here's what I'd like to spend money on:

 

• Crafting fee. Like in BG2. Worked perfectly. But having player crafting ruins this.
• Stronghold stuff, maybe. I don't know what you're planning with this. Personally I think a stronghold serves no purpose.
• Buying services in the world. Transportration, mercenaries.
• Smart investments. Maybe Carl the Adventurer is putting together an expedition to an undiscolsed location. For 20k he'll give you the location on your map and will abandon his own expedition (or will he?! du-du-duuuu). Whatever, it's not hard to come up with gold and payments as part of a questline.

 

But I would like to ask why hoarding money is an issue?

Why can't the player run around with a million gold coins after 40 hours of gameplay? Who does it hurt?

 

I've never heard anyone complain about having too much gold in BG for instance.

Hoarding money is not an issue, it is a symptom. The issue is that the entire gold economy doesn't work properly as a system. Think about it, in real world, dealing with money is almost never FUN. It's something we have to do to get to things that are fun - like binge drinking. Trying to shoehorn a boring real-world convention into a game about epic adventure is the actual problem.