Piracy and DRM

[BBMorti]

Here's a prime example of what can go wrong with DRM:

http://www.gamasutra...es_dev_work.php

 

Just because someone is anti DRM doesn't mean they are pro piracy.

It's that they want a restriction/hassle free experience.

 

I'll never buy a song on Itunes because I still don't own it after I buy it, I'm just leasing it from apple for a one time fee.

Lord help you if you wanna transfer the media you pay for to another device or mp3 player...

 

There's no reason for personal attacks or hate in this thread.

 

People have their own opinions, and calling someones opinion dumb is a sure fire way to raise their hackles and have them less willing to engage in a thoughtful discussion.

 

No one who backed this game wants to see it pirated, but it's inevitable.

Intrusive DRM will only encourage more piracy, since it's all inevitably cracked for single player games, and it could be easier to pirate than legitimately obtain the game.

Careful with challenging that absolute statement, it seems to be the fundament of many defenders.

[Hormalakh]

This thread deals specifically with P:E which isn't being invested in through a publisher. The only "suits" here are the developers of the game and us, the backers and gamers.

Well, the let me reiterate my statement.

 

While people, who pirate PE, certainly aren't getting any love from me, I don't support any zero tolerance policy against them based on the fact that they chose to pirate the game that I backed and they didn't. I think the whole point of crowd-sourcing game budget is to make the game and not to make huge profits from sales. So why bother with all the hate?

 

Because the sales affect the expansion pack. No sales or really low sales means no expansion pack or a really crappy one. I don't think the developers would make huge profits from sales in either case.

 

Low sales or no sales also means, in the long run, that huge block-buster type games will be relegated only to console hand-me-downs. We won't get an exclusive PC-only game with huge million dollar budgets. The budgets will only be as big as people are willing to kickstart (which, yes I guess could become $100mil in kickstarted funding, but we'll have to wait and see).

 

And finally, people should get paid for their work. If they make something and did it because it's their job and expected to make a living doing it, people should pay them. I don't believe DRM is going to be the solution for P:E, but I think that either a "if you pirated, please donate whatever you think is right" or something to that effect would be decent. Ultimately, however, Obsidian should make that decision.

Edited November 29, 2012 by Hormalakh

[Monte Carlo]

This thread doesn't belong here, it belongs in computer and console. Tacking it onto P:E the way you have doesn't really change that.

 

It's a subject that's been kicked to death more than Romance. It's also a subject that breeds more mendacity and dis-ingenuousness than any other.

 

Bottom line: some cheapskates want something for nothing. Other folks don't. The first group kill creativity and innovation. The second do not. I've chosen my side.

You gotta love logic like this :D

 

Bottom line: "pulls an absolute statement out of arse" "I've chosen my side"

 

Dude, put it any way you like, be as rude as you like, be as smart as you like. I couldn't care less. There's a pro-something-for-nothing faction and one that's honest.

 

That simple, and you've chosen the less-than-honest one.

 

The smart-alec rudeness is all about your denial that your argument is based on dishonesty and, I presume, you do not consider yourself a dishonest person.

[Heresiarch]

Because the sales affect the expansion pack. No sales or really low sales means no expansion pack or a really crappy one. I don't think the developers would make huge profits from sales in either case.

 

Low sales or no sales also means, in the long run, that huge block-buster type games will be relegated only to console hand-me-downs. We won't get an exclusive PC-only game with huge million dollar budgets. The budgets will only be as big as people are willing to kickstart (which, yes I guess could become $100mil in kickstarted funding, but we'll have to wait and see).

 

And finally, people should get paid for their work. If they make something and did it because it's their job and expected to make a living doing it, people should pay them. I don't believe DRM is going to be the solution for P:E, but I think that either a "if you pirated, please donate whatever you think is right" or something to that effect would be decent.

First of all, no amount of hate is going to eradicate piracy. If it worked EA headquarters would have already become a smouldering hole in the ground.

 

Then again loss of profits from piracy is not all that huge and I would be more then happy to help kickstart an expansion pack for PE if I like the game. I bet a lot of other people would too. Probably a lot more than those who backed PE itself.

 

Also I don't believe in the argument that piracy kill the PC video game industry. Sure games on PC get pirated a lot, but there are a lot more PC owners than the owners of any single type of console out there. If releasing games on PC was unprofitable, they would have been gone by now.

[Monte Carlo]

Also I don't believe in the argument that piracy kill the PC video game industry.

 

And there was you accusing me of talking out of my arse. I've read interviews where senior industry people have cited it as a major reason for concentrating development on other platforms and concentrate on ever more intrusive DRM.

[BBMorti]

This thread doesn't belong here, it belongs in computer and console. Tacking it onto P:E the way you have doesn't really change that.

 

It's a subject that's been kicked to death more than Romance. It's also a subject that breeds more mendacity and dis-ingenuousness than any other.

 

Bottom line: some cheapskates want something for nothing. Other folks don't. The first group kill creativity and innovation. The second do not. I've chosen my side.

You gotta love logic like this :D

 

Bottom line: "pulls an absolute statement out of arse" "I've chosen my side"

 

Dude, put it any way you like, be as rude as you like, be as smart as you like. I couldn't care less. There's a pro-something-for-nothing faction and one that's honest.

 

That simple, and you've chosen the less-than-honest one.

 

The smart-alec rudeness is all about your denial that your argument is based on dishonesty and, I presume, you do not consider yourself a dishonest person.

What ever makes you sleep at night mr. internet psychologist.

 

How little you care has little to do with your faulty reasoning, however hilarious it might be to see you spew. You might be shocked to hear there are other colors than black and white out there, too.

[Valsuelm]

Also I don't believe in the argument that piracy kill the PC video game industry.

 

And there was you accusing me of talking out of my arse. I've read interviews where senior industry people have cited it as a major reason for concentrating development on other platforms and concentrate on ever more intrusive DRM.

 

No doubt. However, many senior industry people haven't a clue about this issue, how to make games, or in some cases how even to run a company (ie: near and dear to many hearts here is the failure of Interplay despite it's great successes). Hence the overall quality of games on both PCs and consoles not being what they used to in the eyes of many. The PC game industry is far from dead. It's definitely not in it's golden era though. There are many reason for that and it's a complicated subject. Piracy, which has been around for decades now, is not one of the major ones.

Edited November 29, 2012 by Valsuelm

[Hormalakh]

Because the sales affect the expansion pack. No sales or really low sales means no expansion pack or a really crappy one. I don't think the developers would make huge profits from sales in either case.

 

Low sales or no sales also means, in the long run, that huge block-buster type games will be relegated only to console hand-me-downs. We won't get an exclusive PC-only game with huge million dollar budgets. The budgets will only be as big as people are willing to kickstart (which, yes I guess could become $100mil in kickstarted funding, but we'll have to wait and see).

 

And finally, people should get paid for their work. If they make something and did it because it's their job and expected to make a living doing it, people should pay them. I don't believe DRM is going to be the solution for P:E, but I think that either a "if you pirated, please donate whatever you think is right" or something to that effect would be decent.

First of all, no amount of hate is going to eradicate piracy. If it worked EA headquarters would have already become a smouldering hole in the ground.

 

Then again loss of profits from piracy is not all that huge and I would be more then happy to help kickstart an expansion pack for PE if I like the game. I bet a lot of other people would too. Probably a lot more than those who backed PE itself.

 

Also I don't believe in the argument that piracy kill the PC video game industry. Sure games on PC get pirated a lot, but there are a lot more PC owners than the owners of any single type of console out there. If releasing games on PC was unprofitable, they would have been gone by now.

 

Nobody's advocating hate. But supporting piracy by defending (or dismissing those who say that piracy is wrong, or to say that piracy isn't an issue) it isn't really helping to support Obsidian.

Edited November 29, 2012 by Hormalakh

[Agelastos]

You wouldn't download a car.

 

If you could, you probably would.

You would download a car, you would download Jamie Farr.

Edited November 29, 2012 by Agelastos

[Dream]

My issue is actually now with the backers. Why are you defending piracy for this game? How can you support a company and also come here and support piracy for PE. All I want is for people to say, "Yes, if I see someone pirating this game - which doesn't have DRM - then I will tell them to go an buy it and to stop pirating it." Community deterrence by speaking out against pirating PE and not actively putting your backed game on pirate sites is what you can do.

 

What exactly do you want people to do here? Go on Pirate Bay's forums and spam them calling them ****? Put up fake torrents labeled Project: Eternity with viruses on them? Not to mention how the **** are you going to "see someone pirate the game?" There is literally nothing you can do that would deter piracy; so focus your efforts on something else that would actually HELP Obsidian.

 

Hell, in the time you wasted writing and defending this thread you could have probably made half a dozen threads about P:E on random obscure forums across the internet and convinced at least a few people who didn't know about the game to back it. You might have even been able to do that on the Pirate Bay's forums.

 

 

Dude, put it any way you like, be as rude as you like, be as smart as you like. I couldn't care less. There's a pro-something-for-nothing faction and one that's honest.

 

More like a pro-don't-give-a-****-about-****-you-can't-change faction and a stress-the-****-out-about-and-waste-resources-fighting-against-the-inevitable faction.

[jezz555]

I mean on a basic level I suppose you want to support the developers of games you like, and you want other people to as well, but lets be real here. The main victims of piracy are gigantic faceless emotionless corporations who would gladly fire their employees or exploit legal loopholes for material gain, so what's wrong with reciprocating?

 

The underpinning idea behind capitalism is competition, If I can find something cheaper(or free) I'm going to use that instead and the companies that sell crappy goods at jacked-up prices are just going to have lower their prices, make better goods or deal. it's not my responsibility as a consumer to care about this kind of thing, it's theirs. When corporations suddenly grow a conscience and stop exploiting slave labor, cheating content developers and poisoning the air and water to save a buck, maybe I'll start shelling out for their products until then, worlds smallest violin.

Edited November 29, 2012 by jezz555

[Heresiarch]

Also I don't believe in the argument that piracy kill the PC video game industry.

 

And there was you accusing me of talking out of my arse. I've read interviews where senior industry people have cited it as a major reason for concentrating development on other platforms and concentrate on ever more intrusive DRM.

Right. Because "senior industry people" are honourable and trustworthy and never ever lie. Nor do they want to produce more hate against people, who engage in copyright infringement. Otherwise they wouldn't be calling them pirates and thieves. Right?

 

Seriously, you have to filter some the stuff that other people try to put into your head. I assure you they only have the most selfish reasons to have you on their side. Concern about your well-being isn't even in their vocabulary, not to mention their agenda.

 

 

 

Nobody's advocating hate. But supporting piracy by defending (or dismissing those who say that piracy is wrong, or to say that piracy isn't an issue) it isn't really helping to support Obsidian.

Well, I am all for supporting Obsidian. Also I am aware that many of people pirating games just do it because they can get away with it. But that actually means that being greedy is bad, not that piracy is bad. I meet greedy people in everyday life, who engage in all sorts of activities, and they are disgusting even if they don't break any laws.

 

Now, there is a difference between law and morality. Copyright infringement is an offense, but the fact doesn't actually make it bad or immoral in all cases. Say, you're a kid and you have to buy your games with pocket money. You don't have a lot of them to start with and also releases are far from cheap. So you either have to settle for free games and an occasional AAA title or go out and pirate. Is it against the law? Yes. Do you think kids should be punished for it? I don't.

 

Actually, most of the pirating happens outside of North America in the countries where the population is far from being wealthy. Which is why people there are occupied with paying for basic necessities and not for their entertainment. Does it mean that they deserve less or worse entertainment than people living in Europe and North America? I don't think so.

 

So yeah, you are free to choose whichever side you want, but choose carefully.

Edited November 29, 2012 by Heresiarch

[Valsuelm]

Err, many of the Starforce complaints are in fact quite exaggerated. It became the catch all that if someone had an issue on their computer and a game with Starforce was installed, it was Starforce's fault. The creator of Daemon Tools actually spoke out IN SUPPORT of Starforce, indicating that many of the claims people made were just outright incorrect.

 

While there may have been some exaggerations in regards to Starforce (there's always someone that will exaggerate anything), playing down the legitimate problems with Starforce and passing them off as just exaggerations is nothing more than lies and an exaggeration itself. That some DRM is purposefully or inadvertently malware (ie: Securom.. at least some of it's earlier versions) and some is spyware (ie: Blizzard's Warden.. at least some of it's earlier versions) is not an exaggeration.

 

Unfortunately I never buy this argument as a valid justification for piracy. All it is is entitlement.

 

If you're a man of principle and feel DRM is too prohibitive, then stand by your belief and don't play the game at all. Except, people really, really want to play it, so they come up with whatever rationalizations that prevent any cognitive dissonance because they simply must play that game. Or rather, they simply want to and don't care to do it legitimately, so they pirate it. No sale lost though, so no foul. It's hard to respect people like this.

 

I actually have a coworker that plays a decent amount of games, that hates DRM. Refuses to buy any game that has DRM (even a CD Key). He doesn't pirate games though. He just buys and plays ones that don't have DRM.

 

You either entirely misunderstand me or you don't respect the right of a person to not have intrusive BS on their computer or their ability to do what they can to remove it. Note that I said I went looking for ways to remove the DRM near a decade ago (I'm not even sure of the game at this point, but I'm pretty sure the first DRM that ticked me off royally was securom), and I found the solution in the community that generally is known as the pirate community (or The Scene / Warez). Like many others, my first experience with intrusive, overbearing, @$(! up something on my computer DRM was with something I owned. It boggled my mind at the time that a company thought they had the right to install a 3rd party program on my computer without my permission to attempt to ensure that I didn't do something with their game that I and most others never intended to do in the first place. I've since come to realize that many developers and publishers as well as even consumers (especially the younger ones) have a perverse concept of intellectual property that totally ignores the first sale doctrine and any rights of the consumer. The fact is that many clauses in various TOS are downright not legally binding despite the assertion by the drafters of said TOS that they are.

 

DRM is not something I generally deal with anymore, as I've learned to look in advance to see what kind of DRM something has before I buy it. In fact, as many others do, I do boycott software (not just games) with intrusive DRM. As it turns out, in general, in doing that I'm not missing out on much, and have even discovered better software in some cases. The fact is that most companies that use intrusive DRM actually have a better alternative to their product out there without it, and sometimes for free even. Also, it's rare that I even want to buy a game these days. Not because of DRM, but because there are few games being made worth playing in my opinion. ie: for the first time in many years (more than half a decade I think) I'm really looking forward to a game coming out. Two actually. One is PE, the other is Europa Universalis 4. And in regards to the latter, the lead designer has hinted that the game might be Steam only. If that's the case I won't be buying it, and I as well as others let them know that on their forums. And no, I won't be pirating it either. I don't feel entitled to a game or piece of software I have not paid for, and I very much like to see developers compensated for their work.

 

I used to work in the music industry, and seeing that artists got paid for their work was part of my job. That said, myself, and most of the artists I worked with saw some of the benefit of some of the piracy of their music/products. In one case an artist I worked for had to pirate their own music because they wanted a copy of their own band's CD that was no longer in print (the record label refused to print for really no good reason even though we could demonstrate there was a lot of demand for the product AND the band was willing to foot the bill for the reprint), the only alternative was to acquire a pirated copy.

 

It's actually ridiculous of you or anyone else to assume that just because I or someone else is anti-DRM and even for what some consider piracy in some cases means we're for theft. I do feel entitled and am legally entitled to break or do whatever I can or want to in regards to DRM on something I do own (writing some draconian TOS or the developer/publisher pretending the first sale doctrine doesn't exist does not invalidate that).

 

TL;DR If you want DRM to go away, stop pirating video games.

 

It is not even remotely that simple. And piracy extends far beyond video games. If you see piracy in black and white as the MPAA, RIAA, et al would like you to, you're not seeing the bigger picture with all aspects of the debate on the table.

 

Also. If you're going to quote someone in a reply, please do it correctly and have whom you're quoting in your quote.

Edited November 29, 2012 by Valsuelm

[jivex5k]

What exactly do you want people to do here? Go on Pirate Bay's forums and spam them calling them ****? Put up fake torrents labeled Project: Eternity with viruses on them? Not to mention how the **** are you going to "see someone pirate the game?" There is literally nothing you can do that would deter piracy; so focus your efforts on something else that would actually HELP Obsidian.

 

You CAN make a difference believe it or not, albeit not as big of a difference than Obsidian can make.

But you can contribute by offering suggestions to curb piracy of this game. I came up with a few that I listed, maybe others have other ideas too.

 

Going on pirate bay could actually help as well, I'd suggest Obsidian puts some form of pay what you want on their pirate bay torrent pages.

 

You could leave nice comments on the torrent page too, being rude won't get anyone to donate.

However, being nice, and suggesting that the devs deserve at least a little bit for their work could net some donations at the least.

 

But Obsidian has the true power to curb piracy of their own game, I just hope it's not with intrusive DRM, but some of the tactics I listed before.

 

I don't think anyone here is actually defending piracy of this game though. This isn't EA putting some rootkit DRM on your machine, limiting you to 3 installs or something.

This is a developer reaching out to the oldschool RPG fanbase, making a game that they WANT to make, not some cash cow re-iterated yearly franchise.

There's no reason to hate on Obsdian for PE, especially when we know were getting a DRM free version, and how transparent and reactive they have been to us all.

 

If your involved in all of this, and still want to advocate pirating this game...well I don't know, but I think it classifies you as a sociopath.

 

But again, I doubt anyone in this thread is advocating the piracy of Project Eternity, they may be advocating the piracy of large franchise games with horrible DRM, or poorly made cash cows. But leave that for another forum, this is about PE!

Edited November 29, 2012 by jivex5k

[BasaltineBadger]

I predict that there PE will not be protected by any DRM besides Steam. Obisidan doesn't have enough money to develop new DRM and most people who would be interested in pirating PE are smart enough to bypass anything they could licence. The other reason is that the game is going to be put on GoG and online distribution without DRM is one of their main selling points. You can stop talking about DRM now, as it is meaningless.

[Wirdjos]

I mean on a basic level I suppose you want to support the developers of games you like, and you want other people to as well, but lets be real here. The main victims of piracy are gigantic faceless emotionless corporations who would gladly fire their employees or exploit legal loopholes for material gain, so what's wrong with reciprocating?

 

The underpinning idea behind capitalism is competition, If I can find something cheaper(or free) I'm going to use that instead and the companies that sell crappy goods at jacked-up prices are just going to have lower their prices, make better goods or deal. it's not my responsibility as a consumer to care about this kind of thing, it's theirs. When corporations suddenly grow a conscience and stop exploiting slave labor, cheating content developers and poisoning the air and water to save a buck, maybe I'll start shelling out for their products until then, worlds smallest violin.

 

I am pretty sure this is the exact logic companies use to implement increasingly draconian DRM and to treat all their customers as criminals. Just thought you should know.

 

Hormalakh, you have got to change the way you're dealing with this thing you've created. You're probably going to need mod help with that.

You've posted a thread named Piracy and DRM. People are discussing Piracy and DRM. These things are related to P:E only slightly as P:E will have a DRM-free form thus clearly choosing the route of ignoring pirates. You have advocated DRM in P:E which has caused people here to respond with reasons why they think DRM is or is not ever acceptable. Continuing to state that this thread is only about P:E everytime someone mentions another game or fails to mention P:E only underminds your position by reducing your ethos. Please either accept the course this thread has taken or ask a mod to close it and create a more focused thread. Again, just thought you should know.

 

After saying all of that, I do want to mention that you have both come up with some good suggestions for the community and have sparked others to come up with more. You have clearly put a lot of thought and effort into this and it has paid off. If nothing else, you've made a soild argument for respecting Obsidian and supporting this game.

[alanschu]

While there may have been some exaggerations in regards to Starforce (there's always someone that will exaggerate anything), playing down the legitimate problems with Starforce and passing them off as just exaggerations is nothing more than lies and an exaggeration itself. That some DRM is purposefully or inadvertently malware (ie: Securom.. at least some of it's earlier versions) and some is spyware (ie: Blizzard's Warden.. at least some of it's earlier versions) is not an exaggeration.

 

You realize he was referring to the actual article which does demonstrate some of the exaggerations people latched on to, right?

 

 

You either entirely misunderstand me or you don't respect the right of a person to not have intrusive BS on their computer or their ability to do what they can to remove it.

 

No, I think you're misunderstanding me. I have absolutely zero issue with someone not wanting anything they consider intrusive BS on their computer, nor their ability to do what they can to remove it. If you want to be pissed off because a game had DRM that you didn't know about and it installed that stuff on your computer, then fine. If you know that a game has DRM that you don't like, then you're informed enough to move on to a different product.

 

 

Like many others, my first experience with intrusive, overbearing, @$(! up something on my computer DRM was with something I owned. It boggled my mind at the time that a company thought they had the right to install a 3rd party program on my computer without my permission to attempt to ensure that I didn't do something with their game that I and most others never intended to do in the first place. I've since come to realize that many developers and publishers as well as even consumers (especially the younger ones) have a perverse concept of intellectual property that totally ignores the first sale doctrine and any rights of the consumer. The fact is that many clauses in various TOS are downright not legally binding despite the assertion by the drafters of said TOS that they are.

 

Then do something about it. Don't take part in the industry that perpetuates so many things that you don't like. By doing so, you're exerting your rights as a person to not allow a stupid intrusive BS, hard to remove component from ever being installed on your machine. It sounds like you're doing just this, so we're actually more in agreement than you think.

 

It seems as though I wasn't entirely clear, but I was referring to people that use piracy as a justification to bypass DRMs. You apparently are not someone that does that (good on you!) and I apologize for my lack of clarity in this regard.

 

 

It's actually ridiculous of you or anyone else to assume that just because I or someone else is anti-DRM and even for what some consider piracy in some cases means we're for theft.

 

I don't think you're in favour of theft. I'm anti-DRM myself.

 

 

It is not even remotely that simple.

 

Explain it to me then.

 

And piracy extends far beyond video games. If you see piracy in black and white as the MPAA, RIAA, et al would like you to, you're not seeing the bigger picture with all aspects of the debate on the table.

 

No, but the topic is about video games, so I didn't feel it was particularly necessary to differentiate it. Explain the big picture to me though. Are there any types of digital products that are deemed essential?

 

You seem to be of the opinion that pirating video games is not black and white, so what are the grey area motivations for acquiring a luxury good that make the waters less murky?

 

 

Also. If you're going to quote someone in a reply, please do it correctly and have whom you're quoting in your quote.

 

 

Were you confused to whom I was replying to? I type my responses in the quick reply box at the bottom, so my desire to recall to type out name="BasaltineBadger" every time I type out [ quote] isn't particularly high. This perspective is reaffirmed given that you responded to my post just fine.

[Sacred_Path]

Y' know, having a tier with physical items makes me feel better about myself/ less bad about pirates. They don't get for free what I got for my money. I'm p. sure this is true for a number of people.

 

I also have high hopes that many people who sway between pirating and buying will end up paying because they respect Obsidian/ this particular project because it caters as much to the consumers as possible.

Edited November 29, 2012 by Sacred_Path

[Felithvian]

Sharing is caring.

 

It's simple, I buy a product, and I have the common right to lend it anyone I desire. It could be either, friend, foe, family or stranger. I bought it, it's mine, and I decide whether to keep in my hands, or give it to any other person. Simplicity at its best.

 

I WOULD vulnerate a law, If I received any sort of income in return. Anyone who disagrees, has no friggin clue about constituional laws (At least of Spain).

 

And If I use the net to fulfill my destiny as a humble deliverer, so be it. What's the point in having so much megabytes if you're gonna end up downloading countless updates on an unfinished product? Most telephone companies never raise a hand against these false accusations. Why don't you ask yourself why?

[Wirdjos]

Actually I don't think I gave you enough kudos for what you've done here, Hormalakh. You have made me reexamine my own views on piracy. If I'm honest with myself, piracy is act that I allow myself by ignoring the effect of it. It's hard to get yourself to consider the consequences when the act you yourself perform is so small and apparently harmless.

 

My views are a little too close to Felithvian's above me to consider piracy an 'evil' though. Piracy (in the context of digital goods) is the sharing of information. The internet has caused this sharing to explode, but other than pure scale, piracy is no different that the used goods market (as it relates to media specifically). I don't see a way to admonish piracy completely without drawing in used book stores, used games stores, old record sellers, or even borrowing, lending, and renting media. Each of those allow more people access to a given media source than have paid for said media. While I am still somewhat shaky on piracy itself, I have a hard time believing those things are morally wrong.

 

This leaves my actual actions a bit undecided. If I still believe in the free exchange of media (even as it relates to IPs) then piracy is only a legal issue, it's morality is more or less fine. However, the effect it has had on industries I enjoy is indisputable. If I continue to support piracy, even by simply judging it morality correct, then I need to be part of the solution. This is actually what I believe your OP advocated (though I don't want to speak for you so correct me if I'm wrong). P:E should not be pirated as it is a step in the right direction which means I should not make any DRM-free copies I'll recieve available for mass sharing as that might suggest this move was unappreciated. I should also advocate others do the same. Most importantly, I should donate to Obsidian's cause here and encourage others to do the same. Further more, I should be participating in both the discussions and implementations of those that are trying to adapt to sharing on the internet's scale instead of trying to stop it. Whether it's Netflix making whatever I want to watch available anytime for a fee or companies foregoing DRM and relying on goodwill to support their efforts. I don't know if this is what you were try to get across, though I'm sure it's not what you meant exactly. Either way, you forced me to reexamine my own thought processes, so thanks for that.

[SinoSamba]

While I appreciate the OP's motivation for the post, I have to say pirates will be pirates. There is no 100% effective DRM. Even MMOs have pirate servers running the game.

 

Not only that, there was some backlash at the beggining of the PE kickstarter becausse they did not come out the gate committed to no DRM copies (I think only Steam was mentioned and there are people who don't like the service for whatever reason). The GoG forums had several people refusing to back it until there was that little exchange of pics on Twitter stating PE would be on GoG, DRM-free.

 

So I do not back any extra effort on DRM (besides having the game on Steam).

[Zoraptor]

Good thing this reached 9 pages before I noticed it or it would have been hulk smash, as I absolutely loathe that infernal tweakguides garbage article*. As it stands there will be a drm free copy and I for one would not have contributed to the KS if there hadn't been, and I'll simply state that I refuse to get OUTRAEGED!!1!! at pirates because it's the most pointless exercise imaginable.

 

*Full of half truths, stats that prove the reverse of what it claims and the like. He proves that relative piracy rates are higher with activation DRM and it's obvious he never read the actual conditions for the Starforce Challenge- sadly star force no longer has them up and archive.org doesn't seem to have them, but it involved paying your own way to Moscow to reproduce the error on their picked hardware plus more and was absolutely and obviously set up specifically to be fundamentally unwinnable. Even the updates are dishonest, saying that TWitcher 2 was DRM free when the pirated version- as stated by CDPR themselves- was the SecuROMed retail version rather than the DRM free GOG one. Half truths, selective facts, strawmen and every other cheap rhetorical trick in the book.

[Dream]

What exactly do you want people to do here? Go on Pirate Bay's forums and spam them calling them ****? Put up fake torrents labeled Project: Eternity with viruses on them? Not to mention how the **** are you going to "see someone pirate the game?" There is literally nothing you can do that would deter piracy; so focus your efforts on something else that would actually HELP Obsidian.

 

You CAN make a difference believe it or not, albeit not as big of a difference than Obsidian can make.

But you can contribute by offering suggestions to curb piracy of this game. I came up with a few that I listed, maybe others have other ideas too.

 

Going on pirate bay could actually help as well, I'd suggest Obsidian puts some form of pay what you want on their pirate bay torrent pages.

 

You could leave nice comments on the torrent page too, being rude won't get anyone to donate.

However, being nice, and suggesting that the devs deserve at least a little bit for their work could net some donations at the least.

 

All those things are pretty much what I meant when I said do something that would actually help Obsidian. The OP wants us to grab pitchforks and storm the Pirate ship in an attempt to tear it down which simply a) wont work and b) be a massive waste of time and energy. Putting out good will and talking up P:E, on the other hand, will have an actual effect.

[Durinax]

the only games I download are ones I cannot find/get anymore.

 

I hope that no one hacks/opens the game just so that they can put it up for free download for a few years, until the expansion gets financed atleast

[Pshaw]

Sharing is caring.

 

It's simple, I buy a product, and I have the common right to lend it anyone I desire. It could be either, friend, foe, family or stranger. I bought it, it's mine, and I decide whether to keep in my hands, or give it to any other person. Simplicity at its best.

 

I WOULD vulnerate a law, If I received any sort of income in return. Anyone who disagrees, has no friggin clue about constituional laws (At least of Spain).

 

And If I use the net to fulfill my destiny as a humble deliverer, so be it. What's the point in having so much megabytes if you're gonna end up downloading countless updates on an unfinished product? Most telephone companies never raise a hand against these false accusations. Why don't you ask yourself why?

 

Pirating games isn't sharing it's duplicating. When I share a book I cannot read the book until it's returned. If I seed a torrent I'm not sharing I'm duplicating which is in fact illegal, regardless if you're making a profit it or not. Once again if you're pirate that's your choice, nobody will convince you otherwise. I just want people to stop acting like it's a noble thing they're doing by 'sharing' these games with the internet. The actions of pirates hurt game developers and publishers and retailers which in turn hurts the populace since there are less jobs available when these companies lose money or close. If you argue that you're simply deluding yourself.

 

Also most countries don't prosecute on piracy simply because it costs too much to do so. Most people can drive around with tons of parking tickets without ever paying for them, it doesn't make it ok to park in handicap spaces.

Edited November 29, 2012 by Pshaw