Resting system

[Crusader_bin]

Hello,

 

I've seen very little topics here about resting system and what I did saw, showed very different opinions on it.

I find systems like Neverwinter Nights where you just crouch (!?) and get up to be fully rested and ready to fight.

Dark Souls method to rest only in fixed places make me remember all the old console games where you could only refresh yourself and save at specific points, which I find terrible at best But for some reason a lot of people actually like it.

The system in Baldurs Gate gave us the option to rest when characters were tired, but often it was impossible (without mods) to rest anywhere. Sometimes it was technically possible, but no the smartest of ideas. Quite often at 10 attempts to rest I was ambushed 8 times. Sleeping on the streets in cities was usually interrupted by city guards. And inns, with their many options were a nice touch, because I often preffered the more expensive room type even If I didn't need it, just because I liked my characters (same with wine and other drinks ).

 

I tried to collect different viewpoints on this matter in the pool. I'd really like to know what people like the most.

[Sacred_Path]

I voted BG style (although it applies to some other IE games as well). The spawns could be very deadly to a low level party though, I'd appreciate the 'punishment' to be a little less in PE. Not being able to rest on city streets was a bit annoying though, it would be nice to have the option of resting in some run down slums like in Darklands, with or w/o appropriate reputation loss.

[Odd Hermit]

I dislike pretty much every rest system. If it's spam-able you basically get to blow everything up with casters. If it's not, it usually favored long duration buffs and the like - high defense characters(monks lol), health regen, stuff like that too. I'd rather have everything balanced so that no class is excessively powerful in short duration or long duration encounters.

[Nanakamado]

I voted BG style, but adding some items like tents or sleeping bags in which resting have better effects would be nice.

[Grand Heresiarch]

Just to be somewhat odd or contrary, I'm gonna go with the Might and Magic 6 (and on) resting system. It wasn't terribly different from the bg system with the exception of having a little jewel near the portraits that let you know if you were in an area where resting was possible, thus avoiding the spamming the rest button only to hear "you cannot rest at this time." Additionally in might and magic the party had to consume food to rest, which was bought at inns (you could also rest at inns risk free, for a small fee, while resting in the game world carried a varied risk of attack).

The combination of a food mechanic, the passing of 8 hours of time in the game world, and overall transparency in where the player could or could not rest made a system that worked well.

[rjshae]

The DA:O camp sites were actually a pretty decent idea. A little variety would have been good though.

[Cultist]

I also want to have a Inn-related encounters like from Fallout, where you are awaken at night by some shouts from nearby room and discovering that some guy taken hostage his girl.

[Osvir]

I'll repeat my thoughts on this:

 

[All In-Game hours are examples and "conceptual" only]

* Camp function that you can utilize every 12th in-game hour in the world.

* At Inns you could rest twice in a row for max 16 hours (with a downtime of 8 in-game hours), the downtime would be applied to the Camping as well. If you rest at an Inn for 16 hours you won't be able to rest at all for 8 in-game hours. Also, if you would rest at an inn for 8 hours, and walk around for 7 in-game hours, that second rest would apply as "in a row".

* Pack Mule functions, a simplified Camp (if Night you get a camp fire, if Day a stone rubble). In Camp "Mode" you can get random encounter ambushes and can do inventory management, talk with companions, upgrade gear and craft items.

Edited November 4, 2012 by Osvir

[TRX850]

Maybe in some of the slummier parts of town, if you had little or no coin, you'd have the option to "sleep on the line" ?

 

http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/sleep-on-a-clothesline.html

[ReyVagabond]

Personaly i started a tread about it like a week ago. and in the end is somehitng like this.

 

Rest anywhere but to rest you will need to start a camp, that means, not just click the rest button and 8 hours later all fixed.

 

I want to make decitions during those 8 hours mi characters will be resting, I want control and some micromanage of why im beeing abushed why my characters are camping in a Dragon infested mountain. Etc. will some one heal someone else, who you want to cook, who you want to gather materials for the fire, did you bring materials in the travel? will some one craft, repair, gear. maybe some conversations with Companions.

 

I want the resting to be something more deap that just click and its done!

[Ralewyn]

I recall an update stating characters would have a Stamina and Health score, where the Stamina is your immediate HP from fight to fight and Health is overall how you're doing long-term.

 

This suggests to me that Obsidian's looking into a rest system more along the lines of 4th edition D&D, in which you have two different types of rest: A Short Rest of 5 minutes that replenishes some of your resources--spells, abilities, health, etc. and an Extended Rest lasting several hours that replenishes all of your resources. The short rest has diminishing returns until you take an extended rest, so you eventually will have to sleep, but you won't have to sleep after going through one fight that went particularly bad. I can't really think of an example of this sort of system in any computer RPG, but it seems to me the design team wants to be tracking and having players manage long-term and short-term character resources when dungeon crawling. This would imply a long-term and short-term resting system--something I'm interested to see in action.

 

So in that sense, I suppose I'm in favor of mixed.

[Shevek]

Rest should be an interesting set of systems that deeply affects gameplay. It should be more than a simple rest button. Here is a post I made on this topic some time ago.

 

 

I love the new proposed magic system. Some spell charges recharge over time and others are regained through rest. It is a system that I think makes alot of sense. It reminds me of the 4E encounter skills and daily skills. Still, now there is the issue of rest and how the devs will avoid the original issue of rest spam.

 

 

The issue of rest spam arises when rest is but a simple button the player presses and is then instantly transported 8 hours into the future. If he is ambushed, the player can simply reload to a quicksave taken just before rest.

 

I have a couple thoughts on this:

1. Resting should be a RISK

2. Resting could be an oppurtunity to add an interesting layer of gameplay

 

1. Resting should be a RISK

 

Setting up a camp should only be done when one MUST. Players should be so exhausted that they should take the RISK to sleep in a dark forest/dungeon/alternate plane/whatever when common sense suggests that such action would be foolish. The IE games tried to do this through random ambushes and the like. I would argue that this should be expanded upon and that negative consequences should not be something that is easily trivialized. How so? I do not know.

 

Whatever the devs do, the player should always weigh the risks of resting against its benefits. It may be safer to rest in the day in some areas or at night in others depending on what creatures inhabit which areas. The upper levels of the dungeon may be safer than the lower levels. It may be safer to rest in a place where players could bar a door and enclose themselves in a room, etc.

 

 

They may consider adding skill checks (survival? dungeoneering?) but that may lead to some skills becoming "must haves" (bad thing?) so who knows.

 

 

2. Resting could be an oppurtunity to add an interesting layer of gameplay

 

This is a somewhat silly suggestion but I wanted to toss it out there. Again, I put the following merely as a humble suggestion. I am sure that whatever the devs do will be just wonderful. Everything we have heard so far has sounded better and better.

 

Anywho, as cRPG gamer, I have often wondered why rest tends to be relegated to being a simple rest button. Setting up camp and interacting around a warm fire are things that are often fairly prominently portrayed in most fantasy fiction.

 

 

It would be interesting if, at camp, players could do things like ACTIVELY tend to wounds, treat afflictions, have npc interactions, and so on. It could look cool too. You initiate rest, a small campfire appears (if it is dark), your companions gather about and go into camp mode to decide what to do with the current rest session.

 

This opens up some possibilities. One of the party may be suffering from a disease and this could be a time to treat it prior to moving on. You could interact with NPCs here and they might also interact with one another. If there is fatigue, those who are more tired may rest more while those with more vigor may be chosen to gather herbs or take a turn at the night watch. Certainly, I am not advocating ALL or even ANY of these things. I am just spit balling ways to make rest more than a rest button.

 

Obviously, if players rest very often this kind of thing would be a hindrance to gameplay and an annoyance. Still, if a player does this only a few times during a given play session, I think it could be pretty cool.

 

Edited November 5, 2012 by Shevek

[Gibbscape_Torment]

None. My qualms with the resting systems mainly lies with how it is intertwined with the Vancian spell system. I really dislike having to guess spells.

 

In BG, there may aswell be no rest system, as you can basically rest anywhere. It may aswell be like DAO, where your companions get up after battle. All BG is is a longer and more tedious version of that, with no benefits other than having to guess what spells you want to use. Which i never found particularly tactical.

 

If Obsidian were to do resting, i'd prefer them to completely revamp the system. Since they aren't going with the Vancian spell system, i think their proposed rest system would already surpass any of the IE games' systems.

Edited November 5, 2012 by Gibbscape_Torment

[Tamerlane]

Anything but the BG and NWN systems.

 

Sweet Jesus those were lame.

[BetrayTheWorld]

I actually don't mind the nwn2 system of resting. Specifically in MOTB and SoZ, where you had a chance of being ambushed based on the "safety" of resting in that area. As far as suspension of disbelief with the crouching, it could be animated better, or give you a still screen of the party setting up camp before it says "8 hours have passed", but I don't personally think it's that important. Time passes, and you give your party time to do down-time stuff like memorize spells.

 

I don't think there should be a "limit" on how often you can rest aside from time demands, as that makes no sense at all. I know people who work all week, resting 8 hours per day, then the weekend rolls around and they pretty much rest for an entire 2 days. The limiting factor on resting should be a dynamic world that progresses whether you involve yourself in what's going on or not. So if you have a dragon burning a village once a week, and you take too much time to get to him, he burns more villages, or a lich has to perform a particular ritual to become a demigod at midnight on a particular day...if you get there after that, you're facing a demigod instead of a lich.

 

Alternatively, since many of you have concerns about resting as a mechanic that unbalances classes that have to "memorize" spells, we could simply have a system that doesn't utilize the daily spell memorization that D&D uses. If magic is properly balanced against other classes, it's conceivable that magic classes would simply have access to their spells at all times rather than having limited uses per day. For instance, if a single-target flame strike does comparable damage to that of an arrow or longsword hit, then that could be the mage's basic go-to attack, and with the correct feats available to other classes, even AoE spells could be balanced against physical skills/abilities.

[AgentOrange]

Only being able to rest at inns and houses is foolish, it's an adventuring party not a group of aristocratic dandies. That said, the system in BG and NWN were too easily abused, and took the challenge of attrition away. Maybe some sort of limit on the effectiveness of resting in the wilderness, only recovering a portion of your health and stamina and not having full access to all rest related abilities, whereas resting in a more comfortable location gives full benefits. Also I think you should be able to put a character on watch when you rest in a location; the character would not recover any stats but doing so could prevent, or give some kind of advantage in, ambushes.

[The Guilty Party]

In the end, it's more about whether you prefer more, weaker fights (attrition style, which is the BG system) or each fight to be a more-or-less standalone tactical challenge (NWN, Dragon Age, etc). Both have their advantages, I like each in their own way. The only problem comes up is when it's done wrong, and an attrition system requires constant tactical perfection, or there's cheap tricks to give you your full power each fight in an attrition system.

 

In short: whatever, as long as it's done right.

[SeekDWay]

I voted for BG2 style of resting, but overall I'd rather not have resting in the usual meaning. I want it to be even more limited by location and time.

[teknoman2]

i want time to pass when i rest, i want partial hp regeneration (if i am at 24/112hp with 18 constitution, during rest i should regen 18hp and be at 42/112) and not full, i want to have reason not to rest (time limits, large change of encountering hostile creatures and so on) and just press on as i am and i want rest to be necesary just like in hardcore mode of FNV and not just a means to pass time or a camouflaged method of after battle instant regeneration

Edited November 5, 2012 by teknoman2

[Mikaw]

BG system is a good one I think but to avoid "rest spam" there should be something like a fatigue gauge which prevent you from rest if your party members are not ired enough. It doesn't make sense to sleep every 20mn to progress.

But characters should be able to partially regain some resources (stamina for example) using a short rest. The healing surge system of D&D4 is pretty good for this I think but maybe it heals a bit too much.

[steelshark]

"Rest":

-Should not necessarily mean "sleep" > therefore it should "always" be doable. Multiple day's "rest" because someone caught a disease, or broke a leg, or perhaps because the druid wants to pick plants to make a potion...?

-Should carry Risks wherever you rest. The more you pay, the less risk. Rent the whole Inn for 1 week, and you can establish very good security . Resting outdoors, carries risk of monsters, bandits, natural hazards, etc.

-Should require equipment when not in a house or an inn. At least bedrolls. Better yet > tents, cooking pots, etc.

 

off topic: Not a fan of the vancian spell system.

I like spells as skills that you learn, and "mana" that regenerates very (very very) slowly (~1 spell every Day, but Mana pool can fuel ~10 Spells).

[Avaruz]

I'm guessing they are not going to add this, but I think it would be nice if resting came at a cost of food, similar to Might and Magic VI. Resting at an inn is completely safe, but outside you risk random encounters in addition you prevent excessive resting (after every single encounter) since you will run out of food.

[GhostofAnakin]

BG-style. It allows players to rest when they want, but with the potential for an ambush at random times.

[ReyVagabond]

Like many have potsted BG-Style was an aweful oversimplified action. We all know that every one was Saved, then rest if you where Abushed just Reload till not you where not abushed, profit! The danger of resting was never there. if you played with an iron man mode you would tend to rest after every fight.

 

This was posbible because the system was oversimplified.

 

I Personaly think a more Deep system with the need fo food/resorses, where you micromanage what the party will do in the "Resting time" and maybe some intercation with companions and that not. Could make the system more FUN, Chalenging and unique.

 

Example:

 

Your party is in Forest. You have - A warrior, Barbarian, Ranger, Thief, Mage and Prist.

You initiate rest, the forest is romed by Bandits and some wild life.

The Ranger will be a Lookout and because of his skills reduces the chances to be ambushed.

The barbarian with his algo good wild life knowledge will also provide a bonus.

 

Now if you want you can asign some one to watch over the camp during the night, those people will not get a full rest but you asure yourself that depending on their skill not to be fataly ambushed.

 

now lets say you pick the Ranger to Watch over the Camp.

Now you need to pic 5 other activities for the rest of the party.

 

The prist could tend the wounds giving a bonus to how much life your companios resive for the "rest" and consume some bandages and what not.

The Barbarian will go around to find Materials, he comes back with Random stuff, some usual stuff like wood for the fire, some herbs and maybe a rare material.

The fighter will try to repair the armors of the party with some iron the party had with a repair kit he brought in the last city.

The Mage will cook and with that will give a bonus to moral and what not.

The Thief will craft some Arrows with the some wood and other materials we gathered.

 

Then you can also talk with your companions and have some random dialogs or somehing.

And maybe do some other planing.

 

So Just because of the amount of decitions you just have made, the resourses you consumed and that not even in a iron man mode you will not be able to rest every other fight, also because we punish the reload of a failed rest because maybe destite not beeing fully rested you could still get the bonuses for the meal, or repaierd gear, the arrows and the reare material that the Barbarian just found.

 

All in all, even if you didnt get a full rest and for that you will have to rest soon again you may not want to reload and try again.

 

Personaly i want a system like this.

Edited November 6, 2012 by ReyVagabond

[ReyVagabond]

"Rest":

-Should not necessarily mean "sleep" > therefore it should "always" be doable. Multiple day's "rest" because someone caught a disease, or broke a leg, or perhaps because the druid wants to pick plants to make a potion...?

-Should carry Risks wherever you rest. The more you pay, the less risk. Rent the whole Inn for 1 week, and you can establish very good security . Resting outdoors, carries risk of monsters, bandits, natural hazards, etc.

-Should require equipment when not in a house or an inn. At least bedrolls. Better yet > tents, cooking pots, etc.

 

off topic: Not a fan of the vancian spell system.

I like spells as skills that you learn, and "mana" that regenerates very (very very) slowly (~1 spell every Day, but Mana pool can fuel ~10 Spells).

 

Just my opinion. And considering the post i just made

1-Multiple day rest where you do other stuff i think it way to much, its a game after all. we have magic and what not.

2-Yes resting in a Inn in some town should be safe, even we could send the Party to do stuff before hitting the sac, like The Warrior to colect some info in the tabern , the Thief to rob some shop, and stuff like that.

But still the thing about the Week of resting or resting a room for so much time in a game i think its to much, we need to know the seting and the story to know if its posible to waste time like that.

3- Completly agree! consumables for resting is the way to go to balance it. resting could be a powerfull part of gameplay, not just a hit a button and done thing!

 

Also a Short rest i think can be avoidable, its a game after all and a 5 minutes game time rest could be just out of combat regeneration. for Stamina, or mana , peronaly i dont want HP regeneration but i want a low HP low hit ratio system to balance it out.

 

Of topic i hate the consept of mana, i think a Stamina should be the only resourse mages, Warrior, Rogues and Prist use. If you think X action will exauste you then it consumes Stamina, Easy right?