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Amentep

Would you like for an NPC to be able to betray your PC?

Betrayal at the Dungeon on the Hill  

290 members have voted

  1. 1. Would you like a disatisfied party member to be able to "betray" the party due to low influence / high disatisfaction with the PC?

    • Yes
      254
    • No
      21
    • No Opinion
      15
  2. 2. If "yes" what kind of betrayal would you like to see?

    • Steal gold / items
      2
    • betray to opposing faction
      25
    • lead into ambush
      11
    • Other (please explain)
      3
    • Any of the above dependant on the NPC
      211
    • Do not care
      15
    • I voted "no" to Question #1
      23


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One thing that happened from time to time in PnP games I've played is one player or a NPC hireling might decide to betray the group - sell them out for gold, steal items while everyone was asleep and run off.

 

In cRPG when PC influence with the NPC gets below a certain level, usually the character just leaves the party. There's also morale failure in battle where the character runs off. Betrayals might happen due to hard coded script - doesn't matter what the PC did, once that story point is hit, betrayal happens.

 

I haven't really played a cRPG where NPCs who become disatisfied who could leave during a rest period with part of your belongings. Possibly this is scripting / resource intensive, but seems like it could create a mini-quest (to retrieve your stuff) that isn't static within the context of the games story.

 

So the question is, if resources weren't an issue, would this kind of behavior be interesting for NPCs to possibly have? Or would it just be too frustrating?

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Would I like it? Well no, but it would make for good drama. Yoshima's betrayal in BG still stands out for me because the character was otherwise likeable.

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Too bad that this thing is kinda single-use surprise. All other times i took Yoshimo in my army party only to have a place ready for Imoen.

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Too bad that this thing is kinda single-use surprise. All other times i took Yoshimo in my army party only to have a place ready for Imoen.

 

That's actually why I was suggesting removing it from being hard scripted to being down to party influence. Ie certain character may / may not betray you due to low influence with them.

 

In fact I used Yoshimo so little after his betrayal, I forgot he betrayed the PC when I was making this thread...

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I think revenge by curse or cursed item could be interesting. "Hey this isn't a +12 Hackmaster at all! "

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Am worried about "Morrigan Disapproves -20" style anti-betrayal metrics / metagames but apart from that am indifferent. It's still a one-shot deal, whichever way you look at it.

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I answered no given the options. It would be interesting but with only 8 recruitable NPC, that is pushing the line too much. But yes if you do not develop a good relation with the NPC. If you cross him/her, if you play against his ideals, most NPC should betray you. Like if you decide to kill his relatives in his home village or desecrate the temple of his special deity. make it as complicated as you want but dont make it a second Yoshimo. I always dream (even replayed many hours) that there would have been something I could do to stop him from attacking me.

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It would be kind of interesting if, like the OP suggested, the betrayal was PC-inspired, rather than just pre-scripted to happen regardless.

 

For instance, if a Paladin was in your party and he was growing discontented with your shady activities, perhaps instead of leaving your party, he waits for an opportunity to side with city guards or other paladins to apprehend you. Or if one of your party members is of the thieving, evil sort, and he starts to get tired of how goody-goody you're acting, he'll sell you out at some point when you least expect it.

 

In both cases above, the betrayal is because of something the PC has done, or has been doing, rather than because those companions were scripted to betray you from the start no matter what you, the PC, do.

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"Console exclusive is two words Darque." - Nartwak (in response to Darque's observation)

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I would like to see a possible betrayal based on actions, not just meters. Someone might hate your guts, but still support your cause, or sees you as a tool or whatever. On the other hand if you do something that completely breaks their plans, or goes completely against their moral code, or perhaps you are betraying them; that would be great. I don't see the problem with being a one-shot deal. For once, it can possibly be in more than one cases that someone betrays you. And secondly, unless it's a completely bland story and character(s), you probably won't see everything in one playthrough.

Edited by kenup
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No, but maybe.

 

I voted no, but I wouldn't mind seeing it on a limited basis. Maybe a scripted sequence. I wouldn't appreciate it as a general rule simply because of low influence scores.


"Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater."

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Sure, why not?

 

You'll have 8 companions throughout the game, if half of them had a possibility to betray you if they strongly disapprove of your actions, I wouldn't mind.

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the only reason I was happy that Yoshino left was because that left me room for imoen.


Remember: Argue the point, not the person. Remain polite and constructive. Friendly forums have friendly debate. There's no shame in being wrong. If you don't have something to add, don't post for the sake of it. And don't be afraid to post thoughts you are uncertain about, that's what discussion is for.
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Am worried about "Morrigan Disapproves -20" style anti-betrayal metrics / metagames but apart from that am indifferent. It's still a one-shot deal, whichever way you look at it.

 

I'd like to think it'd be more complex than "Joe the Stabby hits -100 influence, Joe the Stabby STABS YOU", but can see the concern of metagaming in this aspect.

 

Ideally I was thinking along the lines of some kind of NPC satisfaction scale that wouldn't be based on any one factor but might include several - like the PC-NPC influence, whether the NPC approves of the rest of the NPCs in the party (interparty friction) or some particular quests the NPC might feel strongly about and what they'd think of the resolution, or something.

Edited by Amentep
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If there is betrayer in party I would like it be because s/he thinks so highly about pc (for example infuence score is in max or that pc is chose by gods, somehting like that) that leading pc to ambush is easy way to take money from stupid people and s/he is not actually a betraying pc as in his or her opinion pc can easilly handle everything that is thrown to her or him.

 

So little bit like Judas Iscariot type betraying, but maybe not necessary as dramatic fail in end :).

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Betrayal is not a one-time thing. In fact it works best when it comes in many, many flavors. You can get betrayed when you lest expected and not betrayed when you would expect it most. Then again other NPCs can be betrayed. Say, a jealous companion shoots PC's whatever-friend in the back.

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Too bad that this thing is kinda single-use surprise. All other times i took Yoshimo in my army party only to have a place ready for Imoen.

 

That's actually why I was suggesting removing it from being hard scripted to being down to party influence. Ie certain character may / may not betray you due to low influence with them.

 

In fact I used Yoshimo so little after his betrayal, I forgot he betrayed the PC when I was making this thread...

That would be very cool. Although I don't want to feel pressured to always have positive rep among all my companions. I liked how in Alpha Protocol sometimes you would get better results if a character didn't like you. There should be some big consequences to your companions opinions of you anyway, and betrayal is definitely one option there.

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Too bad that this thing is kinda single-use surprise. All other times i took Yoshimo in my army party only to have a place ready for Imoen.

 

it wouldn't be a single use surprise if all the companions had betrayal dialogue and it was random/down to outside or in paty influences who it was, could be a different NPC each playthrough

 

I'd like a possibility to save/forgive them though if this is the case

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For years..i've been wanting a gold digger kind of rogue that would try to sell you off (you and your equipement) several times in the game lol.

 

Picking your equipement and report you to the authorities while you sleep in the tavern ;). I see it as a good comic relief.

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Absolutely. NPC should not automatically be trustworthy, they should have their own motivations. If the PC does things to anger or frustrate said NPC, if the PCs faction preferences don't align with the NPC, or if the NPC just happens to be a dirty, greedy scoundrel and sees an opening to make profit at the PCs expense, they should by all means betray the PC if it is in their nature to do so.

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I voted yes, would be nice if one companion does betray you, for whatever reason, maybe later the same companion gets his or her just reward by a execution squad, but for some reason, you are there at the same time, and decide to rescure this person or stay hidden and let the execution commence

 

so nice choices in this wouldn't go amiss

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I wouldn't like them to do it, I would curse the little bastards name and spend the rest of the game attempting revenge.

 

If it happened in a way I didn't see coming I would be happy at the game but angry the npc.

 

so yes its a good feature.


None of this is really happening. There is a man. With a typewriter. This is all part of his crazy imagination. 

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I'd love to see this, but only if I have the option of stabbing the fool in the gut, and letting them bleed out to death. Or other varied forms of punishing death.


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