Intelligence-Gathering

[Monte Carlo]

In a big game world with lots of characters, plots, quests and places to explore, sometimes it's nice to gather information. Usually this takes the form of dialogue skill checks when talking to NPCs. Or finding exposition-laden scrolls and notes ("Ha! We are poisoning metal! Find the bandits in the woods to the north! X marks the spot!").

 

So, whilst typing about the odd little boozing mini-game in another thread (i.e. the tavern interface where you had a random chance of getting rumours whilst paying for drinks), I though about fun ways of gathering information about the game world in P:E

 

This idea works on a number of levels:

 

* Intelligence might be patently false, which could be intriguing

 

* It allows skill-monkey characters to *really* shine

 

* It allows for new dialogue trees if you know something about them you've gleaned from a third party

 

* It's a fun way of piecing together what the hell is going on

 

------------------

 

So, how do we do that? Outside, of course, the usual dialogue system?

 

* Resurrect the boozing mini-game from BG1 and make it better

 

* Be able to recruit snitches and send them forth (like the thieves in the BG2 stronghold quest)

 

* Allow the party to hire Ciphers or others to do some magical espionage (a magic private detective character who is an information broker might be neat)

 

* Create a secret police force / order / faction who the players can interact with for good or for bad

 

* Create a revolutionary group / order / faction " --------- " ----------"

 

* Allow kidnap and interrogation by the players of important NPCs to see if they can get them to talk *rolls up sleeves*

 

What do we all think?

[Osvir]

Yes please. Give it to me lots and hard. Mmhm, you got it right there <3

 

Seriously though (if it wasn't clear in ^that sentence) great ideas :D

[Jaesun]

Really like that Monte Carlo.

[Amentep]

I like the idea of intelligence gathering as something that one has to work at and isn't just books and expository notes.

[sollus]

I think what is important is how relevant your information source is to what you are trying to find out. E.g. Beggars good for recon in poor districts, perhaps patrol officers in the more well established areas through garnering reputation or bribes. Go to a historian, scholar, library, local ranger to find out information about resident dungeon etc.

[Osvir]

What happens if your intelligence gatherer fails though? If the beggar I hire to sneak up and gather information fails and get red-handed by the guards or whatnot and he spills the beans... what happens to our party?

[Tale]

Do you think this idea could extend to Bestiary information? Having to go find out that some enemies are weak to blunt or cold-iron?

 

Might even go so far as humanoid enemies. ____ prefers ____ armor.

[imatechguy]

Yes please. I like the idea of having access to informational sources outside of the typical books, notes and barkeep rumor script. Being able to coax them from many different NPC's and then being able to use them in conversations with other NPC's or with the target faction for additional information would be pretty sweet. It should really include chances for misrepresentations and blatant lies to make players actually compare pieces of information to determine the real from the fake when piecing it all together. If it could include alterations in both the access to and resolution possibilities of quests based on what information has been gathered that would be pretty awesome. Maybe a little ambitious for this project but it would be nice to see implemented.

[stkaye]

Fantastic ideas.

 

Studying the remains of beasts and monsters encountered for the first time could be a great way to make skillsy/rangery characters shine. Ranging from a proper monster-manual look at their stats to a combat-bonus the next time you face them (having discovered a weak spot or join in the armour...).

 

Or for more literal intelligence, how about employing a thieves' guild (or just a street urchin, if you haven't the cash and standing) to tail folks or steal documents...

 

EDIT: Just saw that Sollus had that second idea, only in a much better way.

Edited October 9, 2012 by stkaye

[DocDoomII]

Do you think this idea could extend to Bestiary information? Having to go find out that some enemies are weak to blunt or cold-iron?

 

Might even go so far as humanoid enemies. ____ prefers ____ armor.

 

That could be achieved by killing reiteration too (in addition to research).

[HeedlessHorseman]

Do you think this idea could extend to Bestiary information? Having to go find out that some enemies are weak to blunt or cold-iron?

 

Might even go so far as humanoid enemies. ____ prefers ____ armor.

 

I like that idea a lot. Especially if combined with false information. What I am thinking is if some creature is said to only be vulnerable to a certain weapon, which turns out to be useless.

[Amentep]

What happens if your intelligence gatherer fails though? If the beggar I hire to sneak up and gather information fails and get red-handed by the guards or whatnot and he spills the beans... what happens to our party?

 

I think it depends on the situation; if the beggar hasn't broken any laws I don't see why it should come back to us. If the beggar does break laws or crosses a faction then I think that should affect reputation with the faction at least.

[IndiraLightfoot]

Lovely idea, Monte Carlo!

 

And it could actually work with recruited companions as well, false info and all.

[Sugarjaye]

I like this idea

[Gorth]

Eat smart, eat brains!

 

Hmm, I remember playing a rogue like (Angband?) 20 years ago that did that. Killing a monster would show you it's name. As you killed more and more of them, you would learn more, like average HP, strengths, weaknesses etc. Was quite fun and a feature I've missed in modern games like the IE games.

[Jaesun]

I have missed that too Gorth. I always felt it was a neat system/idea.

[Humanoid]

Don't really have a lot to add, but am very much in the mood for this kind of thing as I've been utterly addicted to the old spy game Covert Action for the last few days. Of course, wiretapping and bug planting don't really translate all that well into the Eternity setting (aside from 'a wizard did it'), but as I also personally always play the thief class as primary, the idea of breaking into mansions and palaces and eavesdropping and stealing/duplicating physical evidence greatly appeals to me. You could also fit in the idea of tailing important people or staking out certain locales, but that tends to lend itself more to passive, text-driven, gameplay a'la Darklands.

 

To shoot myself down though, there's an obvious issue with introducing an extensive gameplay element potentially linked to only one or two classes out of a pool of eleven. Not impossible to broaden the definition of the various cloak and dagger sections to include a greater range of characters, of course, but difficult to do without diluting the role of each character's individual skills. Now in an ideal world you'd have parallel opportunities for the other class archetypes, such as the wizard accomplishing the same via scrying, the priest via divination, the bard via charming/seduction, and more general things like the strategic application of violence, but I'm not sure doing that extensively throughout a game of this scope is viable.

 

One thing I'm most unsure about is the interpretation of the acquired pieces of intelligence. Would a clue as to a location of a future meeting be presented to the player as individual, obfuscated fragments of information; or would it be translated into a straightforward player-digestible statement once sufficient information is gathered? Would a coded message be presented to the player in raw form, who would then need to manually decode it (with the decryption key perhaps being another acquirable 'thing'); or would it be abstracted using the character's cryptography skill or intelligence stat? The former one of those things that while I like the idea of generally, am unsure of how it would fit in a 'proper' RPG.

 

 

So, how about a new Alpha Protocol in 2017 with these elements and most of the action taken out then?

[GhostofAnakin]

I'm all for anything that adds depth to the game, and Monte Carlo's OP suggestions certainly do that. So count me in as liking the broad idea of the thread, even if not every detail outlined.

[Wombat]

Maybe, rather than just false or true, how about making the players figure out what happened, letting them talk with characters from different backgrounds and views?

 

For example, in FONV, when the PC comes across with an witness who doesn't know about the military structure of NCR took "Lieutenant" for a proper noun. Even in Lord of the Rings, there are places where different cultures play a certain roles in story. Gandalf's interpretation of the inscription at Moria's entrance took them while for him to finally come up with the right and yet, a simple answer (If you just watched the movie, the story is bit more complex in the novel, reminding the occupation of Tolkien). Also, since Pippin used the second person pronoun which is used only among close relationship to Théoden, the Rhohan thought he must be the prince of Hobbit.

 

These things play as a part of mystery while letting the players immersed in the imaginary world.

[Fooine]

This makes me think of how some persuation attempts were implemented back in Arcanum. For instance, you could try and get past the guard at Bates' estate by pretending to be an old friend of the inventor. To do so, you'd have to carefully navigate a dialogue tree without blowing your cover story. For instance, you'd get caught in your lie if you mentionned Bates' mother (he's an orphan), being an old university buddy (Bates studied among the Dwarves) or the like.

 

However, I don't think there was a way to actually have this kind of biographical info prior to meeting with the guy (If there was, I always missed it). It'd have been great to have some biography of Gilbert Bates lying around somewhere, to teach you these details. Then, navigating the dialogue tree would be based on information gained from the world more than save-scumming/meta knowledge from a previous game.

[JallaAllah]

Well, I really love this idea!

 

The only thing I wonder about is, whether it improves the game for us or not. Dialogue trees are kind of complicated and every bit of an option should enlarge the complexity of single parts by a lot. So in a broad approach this would mean too much effort for Obsidian. This way I would prefer it as an often, but not too often, appearing extra. Not as a general way for questing. We're limited, sorry! )

[SanguineAngel]

Heck I'd love it if you could find plausible clues that aren't designed so that a child of 4 wouldn't have to think about where to go next. Clues & evidence that actually require you to think about them, work them out and maybe even are often fiendishly cryptic would be nice. Especially for side quest/story lines

[aramk]

Awesome thread. The boozing mini-game in BG1 has sooooo much potential

[common swift]

I really like this idea. You could even send party members, that are not in your current party to do some sort of side mission. A good relationship improves the information, a bad one gives only standard or even false information. The background and class of said character might have an influence as well.

[stkaye]

Heck I'd love it if you could find plausible clues that aren't designed so that a child of 4 wouldn't have to think about where to go next. Clues & evidence that actually require you to think about them, work them out and maybe even are often fiendishly cryptic would be nice. Especially for side quest/story lines

 

Remember the skinner murders in BG2? I don't think I even fully resolved those quests until my second or third playthrough.