Darth Trethon Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Copied from the wrong link I used to post: Obsidian, if you paid attention to the Wasteland 2 feedback, you'd recognize that people generally hate the idea of in-game exclusive content. People want the full game, and they want others to also have the full game. They don't want different pieces of the game floating around with different people. That stuff just gets under peoples' skin and is disappointing from the perspective that the work done for those exclusive preorder or backer items isn't enjoyed or recognized in longevity, as it isn't something that the majority of players of the game are ever going to witness and experience for themselves. Having in-game exclusives is a disappointing tactic that is in line with the stifling large publisher attitude that people are so sick of and which is prompting the relief felt by the kickstarter movement. It's right there with generic mass-appeal gameplay and restrictive DRM in regards to items that the spirit of crowd funding is revolting against. I hate preorder bonuses, promotional bonuses and so on. But in this case it makes sense....they are rewarding the more dedicated backers. And it's not even such a demanding requirement since they are giving from one of the lowest tiers. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galanthein Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Concerning the pet, either type it will be (elemental sounds really cool), please leave an option do disable it. Nothing more painful that a pet, running everywhere furing dialogs or doing its animations ! For combat i am pretty concerned regarding placement (opportunity, stabbing, flanking etc). It really never worked properly in NW2 for instance and i don't believe it can for real time games (even ones with pause) as every one is constantly replacing so that even to use an opportunity attack, you'll have to hit the pause button in seconds to use it properly. Hopes Obsidian guys won't rely too much on it (not designing a combat only on that) as it has a too important random part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macbeth Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Pet - anything but a dog. Seriously, it's been done, then done again, then done and done and done. It must be time for a cat to have its day. +1 Nothing wrong with a dog at all, but please let's have a cat too. Cats rule. As for the rest, great update! 2 Chronicler of the Obsidian Order; for the pen is mightier than the sword! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysen Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 I am not interested in having a pet, it sounds a bit silly. Animal companion or a creature that can be summoned would be better. Well, if pet is included anyway and you cannot disable this feature, then I'd rather have a dog. Don't know why people hate them so much. Dogs are cool. This week we announced our Mega Dungeon, our base classes, the cipher and barbarian classes as stretch goals, and the Adventurer's Hall as another stretch goal. We are coming up on our final week of the Kickstarter, and we have exciting stuff planned for you in the coming week including new rewards, a special inside peek into Obsidian, and a first look at Project Eternity. Does it mean that we will get a screenshot? Would be awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metiman Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 (edited) Well it looks like I won't be backing this project after all. Or at best only at the lowest tier. Maybe I should camp at the kickstarter site and wait for a $20 slot to appear. Damn! I wish the devs could make up their minds about the combat dynamics. Sawyer was just on the forum yesterday saying how BG2 combat is going to be nearly indistinguishable from that of PE and now this. Summary of magic system: DnD 4th Edition meets Dragon Age 1. Magic will be 100% cooldown based. In-combat cooldowns are in. Just per-level and per-grimoire instead of between castings as in Dragon Age. 2. Low level spells will be spammable without limit. 3. Resting is irrelevant. Too much tedium for a modern game. Justification for cooldown based magic system: Spell casters are otherwise too weak compared to melee classes. Hehe. I'm trying to think of an example of a game where this was true but I'm drawing a blank. To me, this system does not sound superior to the one in Dragon Age, but then Obsidian never actually promised that it would be. Edit: Oh yeah. And no mention of being able to turn off cooldowns in expert mode. No mention of an optional hardcore combat system as the Sawyer quote in my sig seems to imply. Edited October 6, 2012 by metiman 1 JoshSawyer: Listening to feedback from the fans has helped us realize that people can be pretty polarized on what they want, even among a group of people ostensibly united by a love of the same games. For us, that means prioritizing options is important. If people don’t like a certain aspect of how skill checks are presented or how combat works, we should give them the ability to turn that off, resources permitting. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monte Carlo Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Well it looks like I won't be backing this project after all. Or at best only at the lowest tier. Maybe I should camp at the kickstarter site and wait for a $20 slot to appear. Damn! I wish the devs could make up their minds about the combat dynamics. Sawyer was just on the forum yesterday saying how BG2 combat is going to be nearly indistinguishable from that of PE and now this. Summary of magic system: DnD 4th Edition meets Dragon Age 1. Magic will be 100% cooldown based. In-combat cooldowns are in. Just per-level and per-grimoire instead of between castings as in Dragon Age. 2. Low level spells will be spammable without limit. 3. Resting is irrelevant. Too much tedium for a modern game. Justification for cooldown based magic system: Spell casters are otherwise too weak compared to melee classes. Hehe. I'm trying to think of an example of a game where this was true but I'm drawing a blank. To me, this system does not sound superior to the one in Dragon Age, but then Obsidian never actually promised that it would be. Does that mean you will stop posting now please? 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aVENGER Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Mod Support Our plan is to release our file-format information and expose as much of the data in the game as possible for you to extend and edit. We traditionally do not "hard-code" numbers so that our designers, and you, have the power to easily change and iterate on RPG data. Awesome! You can be sure that the Infinity Engine community will jump at the chance to mod this game. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metiman Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 (edited) Well it looks like I won't be backing this project after all. Or at best only at the lowest tier. Maybe I should camp at the kickstarter site and wait for a $20 slot to appear. Damn! I wish the devs could make up their minds about the combat dynamics. Sawyer was just on the forum yesterday saying how BG2 combat is going to be nearly indistinguishable from that of PE and now this. Summary of magic system: DnD 4th Edition meets Dragon Age 1. Magic will be 100% cooldown based. In-combat cooldowns are in. Just per-level and per-grimoire instead of between castings as in Dragon Age. 2. Low level spells will be spammable without limit. 3. Resting is irrelevant. Too much tedium for a modern game. Justification for cooldown based magic system: Spell casters are otherwise too weak compared to melee classes. Hehe. I'm trying to think of an example of a game where this was true but I'm drawing a blank. To me, this system does not sound superior to the one in Dragon Age, but then Obsidian never actually promised that it would be. Does that mean you will stop posting now please? No. I will stay here just to annoy you, MC. Although I must admit that I'm starting to feel like I'm posting at the Bioware forums now. Which is not something I would do. Edited October 6, 2012 by metiman JoshSawyer: Listening to feedback from the fans has helped us realize that people can be pretty polarized on what they want, even among a group of people ostensibly united by a love of the same games. For us, that means prioritizing options is important. If people don’t like a certain aspect of how skill checks are presented or how combat works, we should give them the ability to turn that off, resources permitting. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diablo169 Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 It was nice of Tim to actually answer my cooldown question, It doesnt sound like my ideal magic system either. But I can live with it to be honest, at least it's not MMO style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metiman Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Thanks for asking it, diablo. You saved me a bunch of money. 1 JoshSawyer: Listening to feedback from the fans has helped us realize that people can be pretty polarized on what they want, even among a group of people ostensibly united by a love of the same games. For us, that means prioritizing options is important. If people don’t like a certain aspect of how skill checks are presented or how combat works, we should give them the ability to turn that off, resources permitting. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majek Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Does that mean you will stop posting now please? You should be old enough to realize that posters like that never leave, so the only way is to ignore them. 1.13 killed off Ja2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloody Hypocrite Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Metiman, from what I heard it sounds like a hybrid vancian cool down system. Not what you wanted to hear I'm sure, but it still could be interesting. It sound like lower level spells won't be infinitely spammable, but have a max count. The grimoires sound like a pre detremined (vancian) set of spells that only have set uses. Any thoughts on what Tim said about combat? I was fairly enthused about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hornet85 Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 If you are not going to back it, then don't. Why the need to inform the world 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metiman Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 The melee combat sounded fine. It's the magic system that doesn't. I suppose I could stick to playing melee characters only. For those who would like to see me leave the forums, unless Obsidian reverses their position on cooldowns yet again you will get your wish on October 17th when I am certain that there is no longer any chance of them changing their minds. After that you guys can quit arguing and have a big slumber party like the one that seems to be going on in the kickstarter comments. Not my cup of tea at all. JoshSawyer: Listening to feedback from the fans has helped us realize that people can be pretty polarized on what they want, even among a group of people ostensibly united by a love of the same games. For us, that means prioritizing options is important. If people don’t like a certain aspect of how skill checks are presented or how combat works, we should give them the ability to turn that off, resources permitting. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhoulishVisage Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Pet ideas? -Cave Spider -A tiny dragon sort of like Errol from Guards! Guards! -Some sort of wilderness spirit, like a sprite When in doubt, blame the elves. I have always hated the word "censorship", I prefer seeing it as just removing content that isn't suitable or is considered offensive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloody Hypocrite Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 I hope you don't give up on PE on the 17th. This is all just the very start of the process, the initial stages of design. Nothing is set in stone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunehunter Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 I feel quite well with the magic system as long as they arrange encounters in a proper sequence. What I means is that a series of short battle follow a big one, then you won't be able to cast spells within the level of spell you have used up between short battles while the cooldown will be over between two big encounters. And I think this is what they want to achieve, freeing the gamers from the rest system while maintaining an old taste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starwars Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 The melee combat sounded fine. It's the magic system that doesn't. I suppose I could stick to playing melee characters only. For those who would like to see me leave the forums, unless Obsidian reverses their position on cooldowns yet again you will get your wish on October 17th when I am certain that there is no longer any chance of them changing their minds. After that you guys can quit arguing and have a big slumber party like the one that seems to be going on in the kickstarter comments. Not my cup of tea at all. I'm sure we will all be here, firing off salutes when you make your exit from the forums, and the devs will probably cry themselves to sleep that night... And in April of 2014... The game comes out, and we will all be standing there with a single tear running down our cheek, thinking... 'Was he right all along...? Was metiman right?! Was Vancian the answer all along?!' Anyways, I hope these Q&As will continue. They're a great way to get some info on what is planned. 2 Listen to my home-made recordings (some original songs, some not): http://www.youtube.c...low=grid&view=0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonarbill Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Well it looks like I won't be backing this project after all. Or at best only at the lowest tier. Maybe I should camp at the kickstarter site and wait for a $20 slot to appear. Damn! I wish the devs could make up their minds about the combat dynamics. Sawyer was just on the forum yesterday saying how BG2 combat is going to be nearly indistinguishable from that of PE and now this. Summary of magic system: DnD 4th Edition meets Dragon Age 1. Magic will be 100% cooldown based. In-combat cooldowns are in. Just per-level and per-grimoire instead of between castings as in Dragon Age. 2. Low level spells will be spammable without limit. 3. Resting is irrelevant. Too much tedium for a modern game. Justification for cooldown based magic system: Spell casters are otherwise too weak compared to melee classes. Hehe. I'm trying to think of an example of a game where this was true but I'm drawing a blank. To me, this system does not sound superior to the one in Dragon Age, but then Obsidian never actually promised that it would be. Does that mean you will stop posting now please? I rather you stop posting instead. You're twice as annoying and trollish as he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloody Hypocrite Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Hey folks, we don't all have to have a big kumbaya here, but I'm pretty sure the reason we're all here is that we love rpgs, especially the IE ones. I'm sure we can all debate different systems without **** devolving into personal attacks. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inannachan Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 I'm all with the poster saying a soul companion. That would be best to fit with the setting perhaps. A stray soul that became attached. Otherwise I would be happy with a cat or a miniature space hamster, or a mini dragon or anything. As for the update, I know that there are a couple more people that I've been touting to about the game that is more interested because there is some cooldown on the spells before they run out of use through the day. You may even get more backers from my irc community friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sistergoldring Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 I am so excited to hear that you will be supporting mods! I don't know how the game could get any better at this point. Thank-you and have a dancing banana on me. The Divine Marshmallow shall succour the souls of the Righteous with his sweetness while the Faithless writhe in the molten syrup of his wrath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 "infinitely recastable low-level spellls with no cooldown!" That sounds like a major potential for abuse if I'm grasping the concept correctly. If that system was used in D&D, you would have mages spamming spells like fireball every single round non stop. L0L Or casting stoneskin repeatedly.Or about basically having perma haste. All three are relatively low level spells and if say a reasonably high level wizard could literally spam them every round.. that is just dangerously asking for severe oh-ohness. Don't like the idea at all as described... Pets: I dunno about that.. Why have useless 'pets' in the game when you can just go with familiars, animal companies, and other useful stuff. The other combat stuff sounds awesome. And, hardcover strategy guide sounds right on. 1 DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Trethon Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 As far as the pet goes I think it should be a mythical creature on a smaller scale.....a small dragon or a phoenix or a ghostly wolf or something. Maybe what the pet is depends on the class of the player character. Just some ideas....I'll be happy regardless even if the pet is just a dog or cat or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanner Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 (edited) "infinitely recastable low-level spellls with no cooldown!" That sounds like a major potential for abuse if I'm grasping the concept correctly. If that system was used in D&D, you would have mages spamming spells like fireball every single round non stop. L0L Or casting stoneskin repeatedly.Or about basically having perma haste. All three are relatively low level spells and if say a reasonably high level wizard could literally spam them every round.. that is just dangerously asking for severe oh-ohness. Don't like the idea at all as described... Pets: I dunno about that.. Why have useless 'pets' in the game when you can just go with familiars, animal companies, and other useful stuff. The other combat stuff sounds awesome. And, hardcover strategy guide sounds right on. If balancing is done correctly, and i hope it will be, "spamming" shouldn't be a problem if low level spells are correctly designed and balanced. And haste was just ridiculously powerful in IE games. And I wouldn't be spamming fireballs with friendly fire either. Edited October 6, 2012 by Tanner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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