Critical hits, misses and additional effects

[Radres]

What do you think? Should there be critical hits and misses in combat with adverse effects on gameplay. If yes what kind of effects do you imagine in critical hit and miss situations?

Edited October 3, 2012 by Radres

[Caerdon]

Critical miss should mean that your attack leaves an opening that a skilled enemy - especially a finesse-type enemy - can exploit.

[Valorian]

I think that effects such as blind, stun etc. should be reserved for specific monsters to not make them mundane and ordinary.

I'd like to go "wow, that monster just blinded my character with its claws after a failed save", "aaah, this creature stuns with its touch on a failed save". If everyone can produce such an effect with a critical hit.. it's not that interesting and special when it happens.

[Radres]

Critical miss could maybe increase the critical hit chance of a monster. And while i understands Valorian's concerns, i think critical hits and miss effects would help to make the combat more suprising and dynamic.

[maggotheart]

Critical hits and misses diminish the importance of the players tactics and skill and increases the reliance on simple luck and I think that's a bad thing.

 

I don't want to get wiped out because a monster got a lucky shot in and blinded my fighter, forcing me to reload an old save, and then come back with the exact same tactics to win the battle. Or conversely, setting up a brilliant tactic only for it not to matter because I got a lucky critical that stunned my opponent, trivializing the whole encounter.

Edited October 3, 2012 by maggotheart

[Valorian]

If they end up going with such effects, I'd prefer it to be an "injury". It is, after all, mundane.

[Infinitron]

Critical hits and misses diminish the importance of the players tactics and skill and increases the reliance on simple luck and I think that's a bad thing.

 

I don't want to get wiped out because a monster got a lucky shot in and blinded my fighter, forcing me to reload an old save, and then come back with the exact same tactics to win the battle. Or conversely, setting up a brilliant tactic only for it not to matter because I got a lucky critical that stunned my opponent, trivializing the whole encounter.

 

It's true that crits can be cheesy sometimes, but I think they add a necessary variety and exciting unpredictability to standard melee. I wouldn't want to see them removed.

Edited October 3, 2012 by Infinitron

[Amentep]

Critical hits and misses diminish the importance of the players tactics and skill and increases the reliance on simple luck and I think that's a bad thing.

 

I don't want to get wiped out because a monster got a lucky shot in and blinded my fighter, forcing me to reload an old save, and then come back with the exact same tactics to win the battle. Or conversely, setting up a brilliant tactic only for it not to matter because I got a lucky critical that stunned my opponent, trivializing the whole encounter.

 

It's true that crits can be cheesy sometimes, but I think they add a necessary variety and exciting unpredictability to standard melee. I wouldn't want to see them removed.

 

I'm not beholden to the idea of crits, but that's what I always thought they were for - that lucky/unlucky things would happen in real battle, like a blade sliding of a chestpiece managing to get into a joint and causing injury.

 

That said I'm not really into adding an additional penalty to it (and some things, like being disarmed, should be handled by a disarming technique, IMO if caused by an attacker and not a critical fumble on the defender's part)

Edited October 3, 2012 by Amentep

[Tale]

Critical hit, you do more damage.

Critical miss, you miss.

 

Anything beyond that, I only want to see coming from special weapon properties (does ___ on crit), class features, or feats. Not as a general rule.

[Caerdon]

Critical hits and misses diminish the importance of the players tactics and skill and increases the reliance on simple luck and I think that's a bad thing.

 

I disagree. Luck has always a part of RPGs, and risk is something you just have to take into consideration. There are ways to deal with it: you can play things safe, or you can go for high risk, high reward - just be ready to deal with the consequences.

 

One thing I hated in D&D (or the way it was implemented in IE games) was that my character might have 94 HP yet there was precicely zero chance of some particular orc dealing more than 10 HP of damage with a single hit. With 2 attacks per round it would take at least 5 rounds for the orc to kill my character. Absolutely no element of threat whatsoever. With a good implementation of critical hits and misses you'd actually have to consider the chance that you might need backup - that's a win for tactics.

[Osvir]

Other: Critical miss or hit could have countless endless effects. For post-game release modding (if there will ever be anything like it) this is also great.

[SirMonkeyMonk]

Critical hits and misses diminish the importance of the players tactics and skill and increases the reliance on simple luck and I think that's a bad thing.

 

I don't want to get wiped out because a monster got a lucky shot in and blinded my fighter, forcing me to reload an old save, and then come back with the exact same tactics to win the battle. Or conversely, setting up a brilliant tactic only for it not to matter because I got a lucky critical that stunned my opponent, trivializing the whole encounter.

 

It was one of the things I liked about fallout 1&2, there were some unpredictable events that really got you on the edge of your seat wondering if you were going to make it.

 

If there was a super mutant encounter (or enclave) and you were hoping that running would even be an option, then suddenly they blow themselves up because of a jamming gun, you could quickly change tactics and decide to fight instead. Sure you could survive one time with the same tactics as you lost another time, but it also means your strategies and tactics need to be able to cope with to unexpected events. I don't expect similar effects with swords and bows, but I can imagine a character falling over, hitting some other target, become more vunerable to critical hits.

 

I agree it could make some combat encounters too easy and create some balance issues, because you got some strong armour or weapons early, but I still like it.

[Ashram]

I am a fan of using the DIE 30 chart of doom Critical hits and misses in the table top campaigns I play tend to have these. It adds some spice to these moments.

[Greensleeve]

Critical hit, you do more damage.

Critical miss, you miss.

 

Anything beyond that, I only want to see coming from special weapon properties (does ___ on crit), class features, or feats. Not as a general rule.

 

Yeah, I think it's a rather bad idea to have critical hits inflict various statuses. I think a lot of those things (slowing, dazing, disarming, sundering, etc.) should be available to the characters to use at will, as called shots or similar, instead of having to rely on critical hits. Fighters become little else that door-stoppers without any real tactical abilities to them other than hitting hard or taking hard hits.

[tamimh]

Some of the best moments in D&D sessions are when someone fumbles. Or has to POWER CHECK.

[Archmage Silver]

Critical Hits: They should only cause extra damage, unless otherwise stated in a weapon's description. I'm not against certain weapons adding a special effect on critical hits, e.g. bleed. Different weapons should also have different critical hit damage multipliers, e.g. a halberd should have a higher multiplier than a dagger.

 

Critical Misses: They should reduce defensive capabilities like armor class (however that is handled) and dodge/reflex saves. I'd also consider a short duration movement speed penalty. Why? On a critical miss you overcommit yourself to an attack, leaving yourself more vulnerable than usual because you miss your target. It also takes more time to recover your footing, leading to the movement speed penalty.

[Hypevosa]

chaos adds to the fun, I'm all for critical hits and misses as long as they're interesting and fun. I don't want anyone's +5 bow snapping in half or anything, but it would be cool to maybe have it fly across the room as they accidentally let go of the bow as they fire it or something else interesting.

[Jarmo]

Hated dropping your weapon and noticing it way later somewhere.

 

Hits: more damage, stun, knockdown, blinding (temporarily)

Misses: leave yourself open (AC penalty for a turn), fall down (prone penalties, miss turn), lose balance and miss turn

 

Nothing too radical or game breaking for me.

[DocDoomII]

Critical Hits: They should only cause extra damage, unless otherwise stated in a weapon's description. I'm not against certain weapons adding a special effect on critical hits, e.g. bleed. Different weapons should also have different critical hit damage multipliers, e.g. a halberd should have a higher multiplier than a dagger.

 

Critical Misses: They should reduce defensive capabilities like armor class (however that is handled) and dodge/reflex saves. I'd also consider a short duration movement speed penalty. Why? On a critical miss you overcommit yourself to an attack, leaving yourself more vulnerable than usual because you miss your target. It also takes more time to recover your footing, leading to the movement speed penalty.

 

I couldn't have said it any better.

Actually, I wouldn't have been able to even say it as well as you did, since I'm a bit sucky with my english, but that is exactly my point of view on the matter.

[Hypevosa]

Hated dropping your weapon and noticing it way later somewhere.

 

Hits: more damage, stun, knockdown, blinding (temporarily)

Misses: leave yourself open (AC penalty for a turn), fall down (prone penalties, miss turn), lose balance and miss turn

 

Nothing too radical or game breaking for me.

 

an NPC yelling "My sword!" or something of the sort would be a good indicator ;D

[Radres]

Would be fun to Like i said if not too overpowered this could spice combat up by a lot.

[TrashMan]

Critical hits - depends on WHERE you hit the enemy (or the enemy hits you) Hit on the head could cause stunning. Hit on the arm coudl cause a weapon drop, etc...

 

Critical miss - random result. Ranging from leaving yourself open (reduced defense for next enemy attack) to worse. Nothing negative happning would also be a possible result (simulating that you managed to recover in the lat second)

[martix]

Well, looks like most good ideas were already voiced.

Still, my 2cents:

In the basic sense, a crit should:

1. Simply do more damage.

2. Leave more open for the next round.

 

After that there should be more available modifiers with item properties or additional specialized training(i.e. feats or whatchamacallit).

Things like advanced training allowing you to recover from crit misses.

Conditioning allowing you to withstand enemies crippling strikes and following effects.

Effects like shattering armor/weapons and all sorts of grievous bodily harm coming from landing the perfect blow on a weak spot.

[cyberarmy]

Well i love critical hits having extra effects but i think they should varied by class skills or weapon types.

And also critical misses should be in too.

[Karranthain]

A multitude of effects for both hits and misses is a very nice way to spice combat up.

 

As for the critical hits, here's one idea (from this topic : http://forums.obsidi...ost__p__1190501) :

 

2) Critical hit effects are different for each weapon type. E.g. :

 

a) Greatswords would deal 200% more damage on critical hits and have a 5% chance to dismember the foe, resulting in an instant death.

b) Rapiers would deal 100% more damage on critical hits and apply a bleeding effect.

c) Hammers would deal 150% more more damage on critical hits and stun the target.

 

I'm also very much in favour of implementing critical misses, just think of the interesting opportunities to be had with it, some examples :

 

1) Training could reduce the likelihood of a critical miss, or remove the most severe effects of scoring one (e.g. stun).

2) Conversely, trained fighters could increase their opponents' chance to critically miss. Mages/priests/ciphers could have spells that do just that.

3) Various weapons could have different effects for critical misses as well : e.g. firearms would misfire.

4) Should a morale system be implemented, high spirits in the team would increase the likelihood of a critical hit (or reduce the likelihood of a critical miss). Low morale would result in the opposite.