The Standard Fantasy Setting: what new things can be done with it?

[Death Machine Miyagi]

I have to admit, I was a bit surprised when I first read about Project Eternity and realized it was going to go with a number of straight-forward fantasy tropes. It has elves and dwarves, a pseudo-medieval setting, and what sounds like a relatively high magic environment...all from the company which seemed to like subverting stuff like that as often as it could get away with in the past.

 

Troika, of course, had elves and dwarves and orcs and so forth...but put them in a Victorian Steampunk setting to mix things up. Outside of that, not an elf or dwarf to be seen in Torment or Mask of the Betrayer as companion NPCs, but you DID have a chaste succubus, a floating skull plucked from the Nine Hells, a handsome hagspawn who can visit your dreams, a fallen angel fighting for a doomed but noble cause, a soul devouring monstrosity, a giant spirit bear and so forth. The most straightforward examples of the Standard Fantasy Setting Obsidian/Black Isle has worked on were NWN2 and the Icewind Dale series, but those were licensed games which probably didn't provide a ton of freedom in that regard.

 

Given the track record of the team involved, I would be very surprised if Project Eternity doesn't play with generic fantasy tropes in some new way that makes it unique from your typical fantasy fare. Which makes me wonder how they're going to mix things up in a new and interesting way.

 

I'm guessing the whole 'soul' thing they seem to be playing up as important to the game world will be one key part of it. As for the rest, what could be done with P:E Dwarves or Elves to make them stand out from the crowd? Then again, should something be done to make them stand out, or would you be fine with your standard forest-dwelling elves and bearded scottish dwarves living underground and drinking lots of ale?

[Tale]

The subraces are a good place to explore unique takes on them. Snow dwarves that specialize in archery is already slightly less than common. So long as they continue to recognize that cultures would vary by location for races other than just human, they're going beyond standard.

[Piccolo]

I can't get enough medieval / Tolkien-esque fantasy RPGs - so i'm happy. (Note "Tolkien-esque", not "Peter Jackson-esque - no Scottish dwarves please)

 

People say the setting has been done to death, but if I wanted a typical medieval fantasy cRPG in the style of the IE games, what would my options be? Not many.

 

That said, i'm not against the devs putting their own unique cultural twists on races like elves and dwarves to make them slightly more unique. I'm also hoping that some of the races not yet revealed will be very unique.

Edited September 30, 2012 by Piccolo

[dlux]

We have already had a huge discussion on this before you joined these forums. It might have been a better idea to read and maybe revive an old thread.

[Death Machine Miyagi]

We have already had a huge discussion on this before you joined these forums. It might have been a better idea to read and maybe revive an old thread.

 

The nature of message boards is that topics are cyclical.

 

If there is no interest in discussing this topic anymore, this thread will fall away quickly. If there is interest, it won't. No big deal either way.

 

In the meantime, if it bugs you to see it brought up again, you're welcome to ignore it.

[dlux]

I was just pointing out that there are already threads with tons of info and discussion on this topic, just in case you didn't know. It is absolutely fine if you want to start a new thread though.

[TrashMan]

Troika, of course, had elves and dwarves and orcs and so forth...but put them in a Victorian Steampunk setting to mix things up. Outside of that, not an elf or dwarf to be seen in Torment or Mask of the Betrayer as companion NPCs, but you DID have a chaste succubus, a floating skull plucked from the Nine Hells, a handsome hagspawn who can visit your dreams, a fallen angel fighting for a doomed but noble cause, a soul devouring monstrosity, a giant spirit bear and so forth.

 

And I have to admit I didn't really like any of them.

It may seem odd, but I liek to keep my fantasy "down to earth".

Too many improbable things piled up just kinda ruin it for me.

 

When your entire party is consisting of incredible, unique, rare and amazing individuals it just looses all crediblity. What are the chances of one guy gathering together a party like that?

 

 

Bob, slayer of Ghizna

Bob, teh champion of Kirkwall

Bob, he weho discovered the lost city of atlantis

Bob, he who foudn the lost jewl of hrkaxag (even tough it was 10 feet from the city)

 

After how many titles will you stop thinking "this guy is amazing" and start going "really? One guy doing all of that? C'mon!"

 

It's the same with a overly colorfull party.

[FlintlockJazz]

First off, I would try to define what a 'traditional fantasy setting' is, as while many people call it 'Tolkienesque' it really isn't if you think about it: Tolkien's stories have relatively low magic compared to the D&D usual setting, with for instance Gandalf using very little spells in them, you only ever really see him using Light and other low-key spells. It is also a monothiestic setting while the standard has polythiestic, more Greek influences, etc. So I would say a Tolkienesque setting would be different from the standard fantasy setting, even though the latter was partially inspired by it (only partially). A standard fantasy setting also has a very modern outlook and ethics amongst it's inhabitants, whereas the real historical setting would be very different, and the standard fantasy setting has many of the anachronisms of plate armour without gunpowder weaponry, strong trade, etc. The standard fantasy setting I personally find has a very specific traits, not actually associated with the sources people think they come from, and I find that even when the creator of a setting tries to use a different one he ends up importing the same traits that I would consider the defining features of the standard fantasy setting, such as the aforementioned modern outlook and society structure (even if there is supposed to be nobility they don't really have any social divisions or such like).

 

Obsidian are at least using gunpowder in their setting and seem to be looking at how their societies would form and the justifications for it at least, that's the impression I got, so hopefully we'll see something quite different.

[Streamlock]

I guess I've been consuming different kinds of fiction for long enough that your comment/question could be directed at just about any setting.

 

How many are there really?

 

Tolkien/High Fant.

Steampunk

Various Historical (Medievel, Bronze Age, Pre-industrial/Industrial, WWI, WWII, Dark Ages, Disco Era, Whatever)

Modern and/or alt history

Near Future Earth

Far Future Sci-Fi (Earth or Space based, post apocolyptic, what have you)

Cyberpunk

Cybermancy

 

Then possibly add the following to those settings-Zombie Apocolypse,Vampires,Werewolves, Grimm tales, time travel, polytheism, magic, psychics.

 

At some point, your going off reservation with the setting for the sake of just being different with no particular benifit to the product. I mean yeah, sure nobody has really done (that I'm aware of) a deep RPG set in the stone ages, but do you really want to role play Clan of the Cave Bear or some nonsense?

 

That being said, I don't want a carbon copy of Tokien or Forgotten Realms, but I don't see a reason to boo-hoo about a fant. setting so long as it's done well and made fresh and interesting on some level.

Edited September 30, 2012 by Streamlock

[Elerond]

My opion is that using traditional races and species in fantasy world is right thing to do. As most of people who like/love fantasy rpgs has their own favorite on those traditional races and would like to see them in the game and play one in the game (this fact is straight from my pocket with out any other merit). And to give player something new/newish, create one ore to races addition of those traditional ones.

 

And to make world your own, you need only give traditional races some personal touch/twist which makes them little pit different from other settings. This ways traditional high fantasy lovers feel like home in your world and still they can find out something new. And those who want change you have new races to offer.

[Shadenuat]

If you think that for setting to be interesting you must include surreal otherworldy terrain and never before seen races, you are direly wrong. See JRPGs and asian MMOs, which work starting to style and forget about substance. Planescape is't good because it has bat**** insane stuff in it, it's good because it has a lot of substance. It's possible to make a setting which has only humans as playable race and big-bads as everyone else, and still work out (Diablo).

 

FlintlockJazz is right. When it comes to "standard fantasy", most of the time we just see copies of the copies with style other everything, but without carried on substance. People continue to draw green orcs because Blanche did that, they don't know why in Warhammer they are green.

 

In MoB, if Gann and Dove were human, not much would change. Gann would still be very funny and eccentric character with his dreamwalking. Dove could still retain her philosophy of seeing everything in black and white, and she still would be amazing with her idea bringing justice to gods. They had strong personalities and great writing, and were connected to main plot. When character has that, bells and whistles like purple skin or wings are just there for show.

Edited September 30, 2012 by Shadenuat

[Caerdon]

I'm hoping Obsidian will pull off some kind of twist yet, but I've prepared myself not to be disappointed if that doesn't happen.

 

Generally I prefer either something really fantastical and different (like PS:T) or something very low-key, down-to-earh, with only subtle indications of fantasy here and there, and preferably without elves, dwarves, orcs, vampires, minotaurs or anything we see all the time.

[rjshae]

A horse, of course. There were horses in Oblivion, but they were awkward to control. Having horses in a click and move game would be a nice addition and add a lot of tactical variety to the combat.

Edited September 30, 2012 by rjshae

[eimatshya]

The subraces are a good place to explore unique takes on them. Snow dwarves that specialize in archery is already slightly less than common. So long as they continue to recognize that cultures would vary by location for races other than just human, they're going beyond standard.

 

This.

 

I don't have any particular preference between bizarre settings like Planescape or Dark Sun and more traditional fantasy settings like Forgotten Realms. I think you can tell interesting and engaging stories in either kind of setting.

 

The "new" thing that I would like to see done in a traditional fantasy setting (or any fantasy setting, really) would be to create greater ethnolinguistic diversity. The big problem that I have with fantasy settings in general is that their non-human races are almost always monocultural/monolingual (as though language and culture are passed on genetically or something). This annoys me to no end. Dwarves who live in the Kingdom of Narnik should not have the same language and culture as the Dwarves who live 1000 miles away in Erkhhadn. Within the single "race" (to use the term as it is used in fantasy settings) that we have on Earth, there is an incredible range of diversity. On the Earth, humans speak over FIVE THOUSAND LANGUAGES divided into over 200 families most of which can be further subdivided into smaller sub-families. It sounds like Obsidian may be addressing this problem with Project Eternity, so my big issue seems to be under control. I can't wait to see what they come up with!

 

Oh, and as a non-P:E related aside, here's a neat website by the Max Planck Institute that allows you to see interesting things about the distribution of languages and languages features on Earth (English is the the Indo-European family, sub-family: Germanic):

 

http://wals.info/languoid

Edited September 30, 2012 by eimatshya

[Luckmann]

We have already had a huge discussion on this before you joined these forums. It might have been a better idea to read and maybe revive an old thread.

 

The nature of message boards is that topics are cyclical.

 

If there is no interest in discussing this topic anymore, this thread will fall away quickly. If there is interest, it won't. No big deal either way.

 

In the meantime, if it bugs you to see it brought up again, you're welcome to ignore it.

The problem with that is that while people have an interest in the topic, they get tired of constantly repeating themselves and essentially 're-educate' the participants, bringing the debate up from the asinine sea of blah it usually starts with.

 

Stupidity and opinionation shouldn't win by walkover or sheer attrition.

[Vargr Raekr]

Why did I ever bother?

Edited July 22, 2018 by Vargr Raekr

[Monte Carlo]

I like the idea of 'science fantasy' a la Moorc0ck etc (hawkwind for example; it had mechanical flying machines in the shape of beasts and 'flamelances' but also swords, axes and armour). Howabout some races having a different relationship with their souls than others? Make the high medieval renaissance setting fuelled by magic, make the reformation of the world linked to the perception of souls and their worth. Make magical science distinct and unusual.there is nothing wrong with high fantasy settings, but some of us like a burst of chilli with our vanilla if you get my drift.

[rjshae]

I was just pointing out that there are already threads with tons of info and discussion on this topic, just in case you didn't know. It is absolutely fine if you want to start a new thread though.

 

This thread? http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60726-things-youd-like-to-see-in-pe-that-havent-been-done-before-in-a-crpg/

[Badmojo]

Well, it is obvious a lot of us are TIRED of the fantasy setting. I could stomach fantasy, but elves and dwarves...meh. Even if you change them up, they are still elves and dwarves, really sick of them. Was hoping for something really new like cyberpunk, scifi, space opera, noir, urban fantasy, horror..er...anything different..with some new races. Alas. I AM still excited, but not nearly as much as I was before.

[rjshae]

I like the idea of 'science fantasy' a la Moorc0ck etc (hawkwind for example; it had mechanical flying machines in the shape of beasts and 'flamelances' but also swords, axes and armour). Howabout some races having a different relationship with their souls than others? Make the high medieval renaissance setting fuelled by magic, make the reformation of the world linked to the perception of souls and their worth. Make magical science distinct and unusual.there is nothing wrong with high fantasy settings, but some of us like a burst of chilli with our vanilla if you get my drift.

 

I like your idea of the perception, and perhaps the "substance", of souls varying by race. After all, in a pantheon the destination of your soul can vary depending on whom you worship. That's bound to have some impact on the cluture of a race. I could see dwarven souls being stolid and tightly linked to the clan, making family honor highly important. Elven souls may be linked to nature, so, for example, they become tortured by the destruction of their forests. A race-soul linkage could be a significant driver of cultural behaviors. It may also drive funeral practices and make protection of burial sites highly important.

[TrashMan]

no way to satisfy everyone. Make a action movie and horror fans are dissapointed. Make a horror and comedy fas are dissapointed. Make X and Y is dissapointed, Z hates you and doesn't want to speak with you ever again, A will name his child after you while B is planing your murder.

[Lysen]

Take an example: I rarely, if ever, recognize the mythical Alfar - or even Tolkien's Eldar - in any depiction of elves I can remember seeing. Even D&D elves were very different. To wit, the Alfar are not a bunch of pretty, namby pamby tree lovers. They are demigods sturdy enough to survive (in part) the apocalypse itself.

 

Yes, Tolkien stated repeatedly that his elves have little or nothing in common with the elves of European folklore and literature, and he hated Shakespeare especially for his depiction of elves. Tolkien choosed the word "elves" as a translation of Quendi (his original creation), and later regretted it. Originally he called them... gnomes.

[Zz'gashi]

As long as the characters are written in a way to make them seem believable, I will like any setting.

[Gurkog]

I want a fantasy setting where there may be lost civilizations, but society is advancing instead of stagnating or regressing. I want to see people getting **** done. i want the marvels of the world to unfold before my character's eyes instead of found in some dusty tome or overgrown ruin.

 

What I am sick of are lost civilizations that were extremely advanced and prolific. If they were really advanced then why is the current setting basicly the recovery from an apocalypse. Lord of the Rings was that and it annoyed me when books would harp on and on about the glories of the past.

[TrashMan]

I want a fantasy setting where there may be lost civilizations, but society is advancing instead of stagnating or regressing. I want to see people getting **** done. i want the marvels of the world to unfold before my character's eyes instead of found in some dusty tome or overgrown ruin.

 

What I am sick of are lost civilizations that were extremely advanced and prolific. If they were really advanced then why is the current setting basicly the recovery from an apocalypse. Lord of the Rings was that and it annoyed me when books would harp on and on about the glories of the past.

 

No, not really. Not in that sense.