Wizards. Why do the wear dressing gowns and dunce caps?

[Darkpriest]

I'd say it won't be enough. For one thing, dex-based penalties for spellcasting in armor? I never got that.. good armor alows a full range of motion.

 

Also it doens't make sense. Armor requires training to use properly. You might as well remove weapon skills while you're at it. Anyone who is strong enough to swing a swrod is equally good at it?

 

Try to wear a full plate and move your arms, palms, fingers at max speed in all possible directions... now repeat the exercise with no armor on you at all... see the difference?

 

you won't tumble or make a salto/flip in a full plate armor.. that's just not really possible, is it?

 

Depends how you build the mechanics around the "to-hit". For weapons it is more difficult to make a good "trade-off" mechanism with str/dex limitation only, because there is more technique involved in combat styles. I'd say that 2ed AD&D had a good solution to weapons, if there were no class restrictions... each class should be able to equip any weapon, but some good be barely able to wield weapon good enough, to not harm themselves in the combat (so very basic training - 1 star), while others could become true artists with the weapon (5 stars). Without that basic proficiency you would get penalties to your offense and damage.

 

Armor can be put into the "trade-off" mechanic better if you have str requirements and dex penalties. but you can also work with proficiency points as you suggested. One thing true to both scenarios. There should be a trade-off mechanism, so we will avoid clerics/druids of 3.5 ed DnD...

[Darkpriest]

Double...

Edited September 27, 2012 by Darkpriest

[Stiler]

@Stiller

 

Add minimum str requirements for armor and we are good to go.. you can dress up all the classes as you see fit, as long as they have enough str to actually be able to wear the thing.

 

Just a STR requirement? To use effectively, armor would require training (skill/feat).

After all, it takes traingin to learn how to most efficiently move in armor, how to position yourslf for best protection/deflection. Also to build up stamina and get accustomed to wearing it.

 

Of course, anyone can equip armor if strong enough, but wihout proper training, it's not as effective.

Without training you'd get less protection, bigger armor check penalty and bigger fatigue drain.

 

 

The thing about this is games usually ignore how armor actually works. Plate armor is less of a burden to wear then chainmail, yet most games put plate armor as the "heaviest" and highest skill to wear, meanwhile they put chain in medium armor with leather which it's not like at all.

 

As far as training goes it would make sense if everyone had to spend it, I mean while should warriors/arcane warriors have to invest in a "plate armor training" if mages don't have to invest in anything to wear their magical robes and such? If plate armor somehow blocks spell casting or penalizes it as it usually does it makes sense that cloth allows casting for some reason and they'd have to get used to it somehow.

 

@Stiller

 

Add minimum str requirements for armor and we are good to go.. you can dress up all the classes as you see fit, as long as they have enough str to actually be able to wear the thing.

 

I don't think you understand what I mean. by making armor have a str requirement doesn't fix anything or help anything.

 

I'm not asking to take a "mage" and put him in armor. I'm asking for a melee based fighter that uses magic, has skills buitl around this (rather then mage skills that are usually range based).

 

Make the class use str as their mage abilities also instead of the normal "wis/int" that mages use so he isn't penalized for having to get both str + wis/int."

 

I disagree with a concept of a fighter, who casts spells on equal level as a mage, but is more combat/buff oriented. It will be more broken than a cleric from 3.5 ed DnD...

 

I also do not see how building up a body mass would help you learn new spells?

 

Fighting - physical attributes

Casting spells - non-physical attributes

 

Wizards will have enough array of spells for you to freely chose from. So if you want to have a fighter using spells, just pick a wizard, pick combat perks, distribute evenly between str/con/dex and whatever mental stats are there. Wear armor of your choice, as long as you are strong enough to wear it, and cast whatever spells you like for this particular swordmage type.

 

The game will have limited number of classes, and designing some archetypes should be a priority. The archetypes themselves will practically fill the list of available classes.

 

Should you want to make a fighting mage or a casting fighter, just mutliclass or balance out your stats accordingly...

 

The idea you gave (all abilities of fighter + magic deriven from str) is just an invitation to a min/max build that can break the balance of a game. In each game, where there is some tactical level of play, there should be trade-offs. Brawl vs magic is one of them.

 

You're still not understanding me.

 

I don't want a mage in armor (who's usually geared toward fighting with range spells at a distance) nor do I want a warrior (who usually has no magic).

 

I would like to see a melee-focused fighter with some magic ablities of their own, geared toward that playstyle. I'm not asking to take away the mage spells and use them while wearing armor and having it be the isame as a mage.

 

The class itself would be geared toward this, it wouldn't have to be a balancing act between "mages and warriors" but a class specific thing that they could balance out.

[Darkpriest]

*snip*

 

In DnD you had such classes, they were called Paladin and Ranger

Edited September 27, 2012 by Darkpriest

[GhostofAnakin]

Speaking of dunce caps, it was painfully bad in Dragon Age: Origins. The best (stat-wise) headgear for Morrigan and Wynne also made them look incredibly stupid, with big pylon cones on their heads. So I ended up taking a hit making them weaker instead of making them wear those ridiculous looking things.

[Karranthain]

How about wizards wearing breastplates?

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60115-armour-and-weapon-designs-a-plea/page__st__380#entry1211892

[Monte Carlo]

Speaking of dunce caps, it was painfully bad in Dragon Age: Origins. The best (stat-wise) headgear for Morrigan and Wynne also made them look incredibly stupid, with big pylon cones on their heads. So I ended up taking a hit making them weaker instead of making them wear those ridiculous looking things.

 

The DAO wizard hats looked like toothed condoms.

[kenup]

Personally, I don't like heavy armour, unless the wizard is supposed to be the cannon of the team/army.

 

Something like this would be better for me:

 

http://nogamenotalk.com/files/2011/10/The-Witcher-2-Cursed-Armor-Comparison1-620x348.jpg

[Shardbearer]

If magic is pervasive in the world than I think the magic-users should be just as varied as everyone else. There's going to be more combat oriented individuals that might have a bit o' armor on at the expense of some maneuverability. There's going to be scholar-types (who admittedly can wear dress-like robes even in the real world), people who dress formally (suits, etc), rugged types, and even crazy inventor types I hope. I don't think the style of dress should be uniform for all magic users,

[Karranthain]

If magic is pervasive in the world than I think the magic-users should be just as varied as everyone else. There's going to be more combat oriented individuals that might have a bit o' armor on at the expense of some maneuverability. There's going to be scholar-types (who admittedly can wear dress-like robes even in the real world), people who dress formally (suits, etc), rugged types, and even crazy inventor types I hope. I don't think the style of dress should be uniform for all magic users,

 

Good points.

[Darkpriest]

How about wizards wearing breastplates?

 

http://forums.obsidi...80#entry1211892

 

As long as he is strong enough to wear it

[Karranthain]

How about wizards wearing breastplates?

 

http://forums.obsidi...80#entry1211892

 

As long as he is strong enough to wear it

 

Thought it'd be a good fit for wizards - doesn't restrict movement much and offers decent protection against firearms (their main worry apparently).

[FlintlockJazz]

How about wizards wearing breastplates?

 

http://forums.obsidi...80#entry1211892

 

As long as he is strong enough to wear it

 

If made right it wouldn't be too heavy to wear at all. Contrary to popular belief, plate is quite light and has better weight distribution than most other armours (for instance that cuirass' weight would be held by the hips more than the shoulders), and so I can see a mage quite happily wearing light breastplates.

[AzureWatcher]

"Black powder firearms are of the single-shot wheellock variety. Largely considered complex curiosities, these weapons are not employed extensively by military forces. Their long reload times are considered a liability in battles against foes that are too monstrous to drop with a single volley, foes that fly or move at high speed, and foes that have the power of invisibility. Despite this, some individuals do employ firearms for one specific purpose: close range penetration of the arcane veil, a standard magical defense employed by wizards. The arcane veil is powerful, but it does not react well to the high-velocity projectiles generated by arquebuses and handguns. As a result, more wizards who previously relied on the veil and similar abjurations have turned to traditional armor for additional defense. "

 

http://www.kickstart...ty/posts/312639

Edited September 27, 2012 by AzureWatcher

[Darkpriest]

How about wizards wearing breastplates?

 

http://forums.obsidi...80#entry1211892

 

As long as he is strong enough to wear it

 

If made right it wouldn't be too heavy to wear at all. Contrary to popular belief, plate is quite light and has better weight distribution than most other armours (for instance that cuirass' weight would be held by the hips more than the shoulders), and so I can see a mage quite happily wearing light breastplates.

 

if the dude would have muscle mass of a mosquito (I've seen some "men" barely able to make a few arm curls with 10kg in one hand....) then I can tell you that he would have problems taking a breath in such an outfit

[Zephyr Falcon]

On the whole wizards in full armour issue the Dark Eye (aka DasSchwarze Auge) Pen'n'Paper RPG found the besst in-setting solution:

 

Iron and Steel hampers magic! Now a belt buckle won't prevent you from casting spells, but a breastplate or chainmail - no more spellcasting for you!

 

The great thing is that wizards are hampered, but not prevented from being melee fighters. In fact many like to wear leather gear as simple and light protection. This also makes armours made from less traditional materials viable: felt, bone, paper, wood, etc.

[ravenshrike]

"Black powder firearms are of the single-shot wheellock variety. Largely considered complex curiosities, these weapons are not employed extensively by military forces. Their long reload times are considered a liability in battles against foes that are too monstrous to drop with a single volley, foes that fly or move at high speed, and foes that have the power of invisibility. Despite this, some individuals do employ firearms for one specific purpose: close range penetration of the arcane veil, a standard magical defense employed by wizards. The arcane veil is powerful, but it does not react well to the high-velocity projectiles generated by arquebuses and handguns. As a result, more wizards who previously relied on the veil and similar abjurations have turned to traditional armor for additional defense. "

 

http://www.kickstart...ty/posts/312639

Except that makes zero sense. NONE of the armor of the time could reliably stop a handgun bullet, let alone a bullet from an arquebus at ranges where the firearms were at all accurate. Unless the bullet expends its energy against the veil allowing the armor to block the greatly slowed projectile.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

NONE of the armor of the time could reliably stop a handgun bullet, let alone a bullet from an arquebus at ranges where the firearms were at all accurate. Unless the bullet expends its energy against the veil allowing the armor to block the greatly slowed projectile.

 

Which seems quite likely. So, where's the problem?

Edited September 27, 2012 by aluminiumtrioxid

[ravenshrike]

NONE of the armor of the time could reliably stop a handgun bullet, let alone a bullet from an arquebus at ranges where the firearms were at all accurate. Unless the bullet expends its energy against the veil allowing the armor to block the greatly slowed projectile.

 

Which seems quite likely. So, where's the problem?

Except by does not react well, I'm getting a different vibe than just slows the projective. Like, the veil itself explodes kind of reaction. Or possibly some sort of feedback for the wizards.

[Delterius]

NONE of the armor of the time could reliably stop a handgun bullet, let alone a bullet from an arquebus at ranges where the firearms were at all accurate. Unless the bullet expends its energy against the veil allowing the armor to block the greatly slowed projectile.

 

Which seems quite likely. So, where's the problem?

Except by does not react well, I'm getting a different vibe than just slows the projective. Like, the veil itself explodes kind of reaction. Or possibly some sort of feedback for the wizards.

 

I believe the disappearance of the ward do not mean the bullet do not suffer it's effects.

 

In any case, the explanations are vague enough that there are many possible realities. I'd assume that whichever is needed for things to work is how the world works (specifically magic and how it interacts with the mundane).

Edited September 27, 2012 by Delterius

[Gensou]

What a lot of people are suggesting in here sounds a lot like the Red Mage in the FF games (totally different type of RPG I know, please don't tar and feather me!)

 

But I have to say that if there were to be a class with martial and magical proficiencies, I would like to see it worked similarly to this - the ability to use a majority of weapons, all but the heaviest of armors, and a mix of different magical schools.

 

Plus, the red hat with the feather plume was pretty pimp IMO

[Tauron]

Unless the bullet expends its energy against the veil allowing the armor to block the greatly slowed projectile.

 

In the end you made sense of it

[FlintlockJazz]

"Black powder firearms are of the single-shot wheellock variety. Largely considered complex curiosities, these weapons are not employed extensively by military forces. Their long reload times are considered a liability in battles against foes that are too monstrous to drop with a single volley, foes that fly or move at high speed, and foes that have the power of invisibility. Despite this, some individuals do employ firearms for one specific purpose: close range penetration of the arcane veil, a standard magical defense employed by wizards. The arcane veil is powerful, but it does not react well to the high-velocity projectiles generated by arquebuses and handguns. As a result, more wizards who previously relied on the veil and similar abjurations have turned to traditional armor for additional defense. "

 

http://www.kickstart...ty/posts/312639

Except that makes zero sense. NONE of the armor of the time could reliably stop a handgun bullet, let alone a bullet from an arquebus at ranges where the firearms were at all accurate. Unless the bullet expends its energy against the veil allowing the armor to block the greatly slowed projectile.

 

Maybe it's not that the bullet can get through, perhaps guns only take down the veil and the bullet used is destroyed along with it, with the effect being that the mage is now vulnerable to follow-up attacks? The mage then wears armour in case their veil gets taken down and they need time to put it back up again?

[Aedelric]

I was watching the trailer again and paid attention to the concept art. This image is similar in design to the two companions, to me he looks like an elven mage and he happens to have trousers, no robe in sight.

 

 

Anyone know more?

[IcyDeadPeople]

I was watching the trailer again and paid attention to the concept art. This image is similar in design to the two companions, to me he looks like an elven mage and he happens to have trousers, no robe in sight.

 

 

 

Anyone know more?

 

Looks like there will be mage hybrids who use swords.