Enough money to "make the game" - Multiplayer, modding, language support "open-ended"

[TCJ]

I don't really care one way or the other on multiplayer. I tried it with the BG games, but it didn't work out so well for me, though it was nice for a create-your-own party, but I imagine that something like that could be put in without the multiplayer. However, if they choose to put it in, I wouldn't complain.

 

Modding tools? Definitely! To me, it makes the game worth more and extends the life quite a bit, plus it helps keep a community of fans going... fans that will be ready to support the next endeavor of this type.

 

Multiple language support: I don't speak a bunch of language so English only is fine for ME, but I can see it being a nice feature for those who do not have English as a main language. I'd think that they should get enough extra business from adding in extra languages to justify the time/cost of adding it in. So... why not?

[incubus9]

Personally I think it would be foolish for Obsidian to not support an effort to translate their game into multiple languages. Computer usage in the developing world has increased exponentially since the days of IE games. In fact, a high quality game that doesn't need a high end computer to run on would be exactly the type of game that could potentially have huge sales in developing nations.

[Simonosaurus]

There are plenty of articles right now on the internet about Project Eternity in Spanish, German, French… From the demographics on an English only forum, you infer that all the Internet is in English? Don't you think your argument is slightly flawed? It doesn't take the same competency in English to play through a text heavy game, to discuss a game on English boards, and to click on two buttons to make a donation.

 

One thing right now slowing European funders is the absence of a paypal option. Kickstarter is in dollars, and Europeans pay high conversion fees to their bank when giving there (I'm among them).

 

EDIT: Yeah OK, so there are some articles. Sorry! But most arguments for translations are still along the lines of "it would be suicide to ignore the market of Taiwan" and do not talk about how this would immidiately raise funds for the Kickstarter. Why not crowdsource the translations? I agree that playing a text- heavy game and posting on a forum requires different levels of English competency, however I believe those levels are closer to each other than you think.

 

The Paypal option is by far superior to most people in Europe, but where I live, the conversion rates are not that horrible.

Well, i can tell that Jeuxvideo.com, first video game site in France (and so very popular too in french speakers countries) did some news about the success of Project Eternity. It means that at least thousands and thousands of people in France, Belgium, Switzerland, Quebec etc, do know about Project Eternity, even if they don't speak english.

And in the forum created by jeuxvideo.com for Project Eternity, there is some people (maybe half of us, but we are not numerous) who are annoyed by the fact that translation is not certain, not even announced. And so they don't support the project for the moment.

 

My point here is not that Obsidian will receive a lot of cash from non english speakers if a translation is announced. I have no idea of the possible cash they represent.

My point is that Obsidian is a well known developper, there's a buzz around Project Eternity, and there are guys everywhere who don't speak english (or hardly understand it) and are however aware of this game and want it as much as you guys do, if it is localized.

Yes, we don't see them here, but i guess they don't feel good about the idea of coming here and trying to speak about it with a "Googled english" ^^

So I think they just count on guys like me, and so we come here and write this kind of post.

 

 

 

Sorry if my explanations are awkward.

[Kai]

Personally, modding tools is something I really want, so I really hope it'll happen. Adds a lot of replayability to the game.

 

As for multiplayer, nothing I care about either way, if it's in then I'd prefer if it's like in Baldur's Gate, used to have a friend or a few to join in while you play the game.

 

Multi language support isn't something I personally need, but I think it makes sense to include at some point, especially if Obsidian intends to do sequels. The more fans you can attract the better. And it would be interesting to know how many of the people here who go "if you don't know English then you suck and don't deserve to play this game", that are bi-/multilingual. If the only language you know is English then congrats, you don't need multi language support. But you're still monolingual just like a lot of the people who would benefit from multi language support, only difference is that your only language happens to be English.

 

I guess my point is that if you're from a place where you're pretty much only exposed to your native language (through school and media etc) then learning a second language isn't as obvious as it is for someone like me (Sweden). Add then that a lot of games are translated to most of these languages already and have been so for some time, and you have a bunch of gamers who know very little English but would love to pay money for playing this game.

[Gatt9]

 

The addition of multiplayer means again more replay value added to the game, which means increased sales throughout the coming years, because of people inviting their friends who don't own PE to come play together, etc. Multiplayer also adds to the attractiveness of modding tools and more modding work gets done in order to meet the demand for multiplayer-oriented adventures. What is learned from the development of such adventures can often be applied to new single player content made by modders.

 

 

You'll need to substantiate this with direct evidence, as your conclusion isn't supported by your premise.

 

A narrative driven single player game doesn't lend itself well to mutliplayer. The story is intended to be consumed by one person, and everyone else is just there as spectators, which does not make it terribly interesting for the other parties.

 

Further, you just made this giant leap where there's going to be "Increased sales" through the addition of a feature which has historically seen little actual use when implemented. Very, very, few people buy a narrative driven single player game to do multiplayer. Especially when you try to portray it as a feature with years of benefit, because as a narrative driven experience, few will play it more than once.

 

Multiplayer, in this instance, adds very little value to the product at the cost of a significant amount of resources. I strongly suspect the pledges would slow, or even stop, at the multiplayer level because honestly, we're talking about a very small number of people who would use it, as the poll shows. It's of value to less than 20% of the people.

[Orchomene]

Asking if people want translation in an english forum is somewhat like calling deaf people to ask them if they want some auditive support...

You know that people that don't speak english won't certainly come here to ask for language support, don't you ?

 

Moreover, lack of translation closes some markets. I know that without at least french subtitles, you can't sell a video game in France. That's the french law.

So, in the end, multi language support is like Linux/Mac support. It allows a larger market for the game in the end. In souldn't be that expensive when you think that games in early 2000's already had this option and didn't cost a lot to produce.

I know that in northern Europe, people talk quite flently in english, but in south Europe, it's less common.

[Ieo]

Multiplayer/co-op:

This option differs markedly from the other two in that developing MP alongside SP negatively affects SP development (Direct dev source), unless MP is not required to be 'decent' and is only tacked on after SP content development, but a crappy tacked-on MP element also begs the question of why it should be included in a SP game in the first place. True, BG had it, but BG never had as much depth as PST and definitely did not have the dynamic character-building mechanics as PST, and if PE's dialogue and reputation/NPC interaction mechanics are anywhere near as fluid as PST's, that's even less reason to consider MP. Adding a MP component also would not open markets as localization or OS support would.

 

Player modding toolset:

I would choose "it depends"--I have no idea if the Unity engine games include payer tools or if it's even possible from both technical and legal (licensing) standpoints, so I imagine this availability is entirely predicated on those two items, and a stretch goal can't possibly strong-arm the option. All the mods for the IE games increased the lifespan of those games, so if possible, I would be in favor of a player toolset.

 

Localization:

This is conceptually no different from including more operating system options--hinging purely on ROI, accessibility of the game means a base increase in market and thus potential revenue. As a stretch goal combined with other things, I think this is totally achievable without impinging on anything else (besides, it's not like VA must be translated as well; full quest text translation serves essentially as subtitles).

[Gorth]

It's good that Obsidian know better than to listen to the crowd in cases where it's vital to go against the most obvious and most repeated piece of street wisdom. Why? Because Linux support, for example, provides more than enough gains to offset the losses associated by such a port. In the long run, Linux support generates significantly higher pledges from the Linux users, gains the support and trust of their community and all the good things that come with them (increased publicity, increased sales after launch, etc.).

It could also be that the choice heavily influenced the Linux support, as Unity seems to come with Linux support "out of the box", so the work of porting it is trivial (compared to some other optional expenses). Those who know may be able to figure out how mod friendly the engine is, which would if not provide an answer, at least give a pointer towards moddability. As somebody who has English as his third language, I couldn't care less about multilanguage, as I prefer my games in their original language anyway (yes, I played The Witcher with English subtitles, once I found out that it was an option).

[alanschu]

The point is, they're not supposed to know about it. They're supposed to be get interested and possibly buy the game later on, when it's actually been translated and marketed (perhaps fan-marketed/word of mouth trickling down from English-enabled communities in their countries) in their languages, which will help Obsidian to actually profit from the game. It is not something that our Kickstarter pledges are supposed to do, making profit, I mean.

 

There's the tricky situation. The financiers of the game are the kickstarter people. Who is Obsidian more accountable to? If pledges aren't made specifically for multilanguage support, then why should funds be used for it?

 

They could do it post release too.

[Carlitus]

I can't believe how many people do not wish multulingual in PE, saying to use the money on more features. Specially when the POLL says 'since it's confirmed there are enough funds to make the game'.

 

Wich % will be potential FIGS buyers? 30%? 20%? Even if it's only 10%, it's a significative percentage. Right now, will be circa 4,400 pledgers, around 180,000$. Which is almost a stretch goal.

 

What do you want at 2,400,000$ goal? Another faction, a greather player home... and... yes! another companion!

[Zeckul]

Results from the poll so far seem quite interesting. While according to this poll most people don't want multiplayer in PE, the majority of them do want modding tools to be present. That seems a little odd to me, considering the way modding tools in a game like NWN are used to create a great amount of multiplayer content. I've always thought of multiplayer and modding as going hand in hand, but the results so far seem to reject that hypothesis, at least for PE.

The Elder Scrolls series would be an excellent counter-example, as these games enjoy some of the most active and talented modding communities, yet are single-player only experiences.

 

Personally I do not want to see multiplayer as it is typically a large programming and design challenge; I'd rather have 20 more spells, another character class and another area, than a multiplayer mode few people will actually use. Yes BG had multiplayer, how many people actually enjoyed it?

[molarBear]

personally i don't care for localization. if obsidian cares about it they should (naturally) do a market research (a.k.a a forum poll )

i mean, there might be more fans from poland and russia than FIGS (i think this was the case for wasteland 2.).

[KhaineGB]

If it were possible without compromising the base game at all, I would love Multiplayer.

 

Myself and my other half like to play games together where possible, and since I'm getting 2 copies of PE (digital and CE boxed), being able to give her one so we can play together would be awesome.

[alanschu]

I can't believe how many people do not wish multulingual in PE, saying to use the money on more features. Specially when the POLL says 'since it's confirmed there are enough funds to make the game'.

 

There were enough funds to "make the game" at 1.1 million.

[Monkcrab]

If they can't do at the full FIGS, then at least G would be wise. German-speaking countries being the biggest, most stable in the long-term market for oldschool RPGs on the planet and all that.

[Alc Cides]

As non-native english speak I've to say I prefer they use the money on another feature. Why? Because always the local version sucks. Really, I can't remember a single example of a good translation for any program. The Windows spanish version is bad, the same of Excel and its worst for games, specially the complex ones, a lot of words from fantasy/sci -fi has no direct translation and end bad.

 

Another feature I don't want is multiplayer. I'm sick of the multiplayer wave. Please, I want a good old game to play alone in my computer, without have to wait to meet everyone online to start to play.

[Hornet85]

Did you guys read Obsidian's statements on the game.

 

Obsidian have said they are looking into translating the game since day 1, it was on the Kickstarter FAQ:

The initial release will be in English, and we’re looking for ways of translating the game for our fans all over the rest of the world. As we have more information and our funding increases, we’ll make sure to keep everyone update on what languages will be coming with Project Eternity.

 

So don't worry, they will be looking into translating the game, presumably the more money they have, the more languages they can afford which is logical. So lets not argue about the translation. Obsidian will do their best to get the game translated, and that's that.

[molarBear]

Did you guys read Obsidian's statements on the game.

 

Obsidian have said they are looking into translating the game since day 1, it was on the Kickstarter FAQ:

The initial release will be in English, and we’re looking for ways of translating the game for our fans all over the rest of the world. As we have more information and our funding increases, we’ll make sure to keep everyone update on what languages will be coming with Project Eternity.

 

So don't worry, they will be looking into translating the game, presumably the more money they have, the more languages they can afford which is logical. So lets not argue about the translation. Obsidian will do their best to get the game translated, and that's that.

there goes my extra NPC manly tears will be shed

Edited September 23, 2012 by molarBear

[Chaz]

Neverwinter Nights beign one of my favorite games of all time I'd love to see them implement a multiplayer mode like they did, with a DM client and the ability to create PWs. The Aurora Toolset kept the modding community alive for years and it's still going strong. I still get invites to participate in NWN Servers from friends and get asked to participate as DM.

 

If they implement something like that it would be huge!

[Semper]

If they implement something like that it would be huge!

 

yeah, huge in budget. please persuade your friends to pledge at least another 3-4mio$ to implement this feature. since years the nwn crowd is odd. they hail only nwn and doom everything else, calling it not worthy of anything. right now the support for project eternity is very low at best.

 

if mp then just coop. a dm client and all the stuff around is a money- and time sink which is too costly for the first game, but could be a feature for a sequel.

[Fev]

My native language is russian, but I honestly don't have a strong opinion about localization.

 

The good side of translation is clear: more people can play the game.

 

The bad side is (if we talk just about russian localization) — there are very few good localizations in Russia. Most of them have very poor language or feels like google translated. Sometimes you need to guess or try to translate sentence back to English to understand it.

[Slice0fLife]

For example, KOTOR 1&2, DA 1&2, as well as ME 1&2 did not have multiplayer. On the other hand, in the past more things used to have multiplayer: BG 1&2, IWD 1&2, Arcanum and NWN all had multiplayer.

 

Good examples, indeed most successful RPG's do no have an multilayer option, however BG is great example where multilayer shined! Even now there a lot of people playing BG2 in groups. I remember how about 10 years ago I managed to get my friends hooked up on this game and we broke through this game a team, it was a great experience!

 

Single player is fun for the first run through of the game(I care most in the games about the story), however the second game would become so much more fun, if you do not have an option of chatting with your friends on Skype, while killing a dragon or banishing a Lich, or duelling each other for loot ^^

Edited September 23, 2012 by Slice0fLife

[Kanan]

Cooperative game play is important. I invested 100s of hours playing BG1, BG2, IWD1, and IWD2 cooperatively with 4-5 friends or family members. I may not have even discovered these games if cooperative play wasn't incorporated.

 

We always lamented that PS:T wasn't cooperative. I eventually played it, but delayed doing so due to the lack of cooperative play.

 

A simple way to have cooperative game play not impair the story is simply to have only one player play as the main person, and force the other players to play party members that are currently in the game by replacing the AI. As long as the party gets built up within a few hours, most would be fine just spectating. A good example of this set up is Secret of Mana. A player logs in, spectates until a party member joins (if one is not available), and then takes control of that character (walking, battle, tactics, not talking, not direct decision making of story related decisions, etc.).

 

For those of you that are claiming there are many multiplayer RPGs, you may be conflating a good story driven RPG for 1-6 players RPG with one of the many MMORPGs. There is a massive difference between the two types of games, and there are very few recent cooperative RPGs for 1-6 players that I'm aware of.

 

I've never played a mod in any single player RPG that was even slightly as good as the actual game, so I'd put that as a very very low priority.

Edited September 23, 2012 by Kanan

[Chaz]

 

 

yeah, huge in budget. please persuade your friends to pledge at least another 3-4mio$ to implement this feature.

 

I don't consider myself an Obsidian insider to say how big the budget for modding or multiplayer would be. But I have confidence that Project Eternity will reach $3 mill before the campaign is over.

[ohmygodsquad]

Neverwinter Nights beign one of my favorite games of all time I'd love to see them implement a multiplayer mode like they did, with a DM client and the ability to create PWs. The Aurora Toolset kept the modding community alive for years and it's still going strong. I still get invites to participate in NWN Servers from friends and get asked to participate as DM.

 

If they implement something like that it would be huge!

 

NWN was built from the ground up to be a client for running other adventures, not to mention it had a much bigger budget. I'd rather them focus on giving us a great single player adventure, which NWN didn't really provide, and possibly bring mod tools out later.