Do you want firearms in Project Eternity?

[sfam]

Fire arms imply lotsof other technology innovations, and pretty much leave the medieval feel out. If you have fire arms, why not cannonballs? And if you have cannonballs, why build castles any more? It just doesn't work as well anymore.

 

I want fire arms in a steampunk world, not in a medieval one.

[atn]

i was hoping that if enough people voice their disapproval of some feature (like addition of firearms in this case) they will be forced to either remove that feature or at least modify it somewhat

The degree to which this board's input should alter Obsidian's plans is debatable, but even if that degree is huge; judging by this poll the majority of voters would like firearms to be a feature, so your statement isn't relevant in this case.

 

At the time of writing this reply, there are less than 600 posters who voted on this poll.

 

It's a far stretch to think the current results stem from a representative sample of all the people who gave Obsidian money (even less if you broaden to the whole gaming community).

 

I think we should wait before either side can proclaim (poll) victory.

Edited October 17, 2012 by atn

[atn]

While I love games with renaissance elements like firearms (e.g. guns, rifles), canons, more modern architecture and atmosphere, I think one of the elements that made the RPGs of old so great (Baldur's Gate, Planescape: Torment, Icewind Dale, Neverwinter Nights) is the setting. All these games were set in the Dungeons & Dragons universe: Fearun, the Forgotten Realms, the Great Wheel (the planes of existence).

 

At that time, the D&D universe was mostly populated by "swords and sorcery" rather than "guns and canons". Which brings me to the following topic. To what extent would you like firearms and more modern weapons, architecture and cultural aspects to be present in Eternity ? What place would you like magic to take ?

 

While I understand licensing issues and other considerations may prevent this game from taking place in the D&D universe, I would like this new world to have the same balance of the aforementioned aspects as in the D&D universe (at the time of BG, PS:T, etc). I would like gunpowder and other renaissance elements to be quasi-non-existant (like in the D&D world of old).

 

What say you ?

 

@pipboy2000

 

High five. Agree with you in 100%. If we want firearms in fantasy world it should be only represented by magic. NO GUNPOWDER, NO PISTOLS, NO RIFLES, NO BULLETS.

 

I totally agree. I had actually started a thread on that topic.

Edited October 17, 2012 by atn

[eimatshya]

Fire arms imply lotsof other technology innovations, and pretty much leave the medieval feel out. If you have fire arms, why not cannonballs? And if you have cannonballs, why build castles any more? It just doesn't work as well anymore.

 

I want fire arms in a steampunk world, not in a medieval one.

 

They had firearms in the middle ages. They just weren't advanced enough to become the dominant weapon type, as they would in the renaissance. By the time full plate armor came into use, firearms were in use as well.

[Tsuga C]

Yes, they're in, so you just need to relax an get used to the idea. The firearms will be wheel locks, an early form that was often unreliable in ignition and sometimes prone to blowing up because of metallurgical inconsistencies. Rain was particularly problematic for them because they didn't have a frizzen covering their pan, so rain and water spells should negate the use of firearms in this game. So long as this is incorporated into the gameplay, I have no problem with the inclusion of these early firearms.

[Ieo]

At the time of writing this reply, there are less than 600 posters who voted on this poll.

 

It's a far stretch to think the current results stem from a representative sample of all the people who gave Obsidian money (even less if you broaden to the whole gaming community).

 

I think we should wait before either side can proclaim (poll) victory.

 

Why was this thread necro'd? "Victory"?

 

Guns are officially in and part of the lore. But they are very rare and brand-new. The thread should be locked.

[Coincidence]

As long as it isn't something everyone is running around with that makes traditional melee weapons (and maybe even magic) obsolete then I don't see a problem with it. Having really archanic guns might be something interesting to put in the traditional fantasy setting. Besides, old guns have downsides that could put them on par with your average sword and traditional magic.

[atn]

Why was this thread necro'd?

 

No idea, I was replying to posts made today.

 

"Victory"?

 

Some wanted guns in the game, others not. Having majority in a representative poll may be viewed as a "victory" by advocates of the majority.

 

Guns are officially in and part of the lore. But they are very rare and brand-new.

 

This calms my fears and basically is the ideal situation for my tastes. Thanks.

 

Having really archanic guns might be something interesting to put in the traditional fantasy setting. Besides, old guns have downsides that could put them on par with your average sword and traditional magic.

 

Yeah I agree. Note that firearms and canons were present in the D&D setting, they were rare (e.g. in Luskan and pirate ships).

Edited October 17, 2012 by atn

[Tale]

I've always preferred the more pure fantasy style over the semi-steampunk, dwarves with flinklock rifles type of deal.

 

I totally agree. Also, why mention BG, NWN, PS:T, etc if you're not going to make a game in a fantasy setting ?

Forgotten Realms had similar guns.

[atn]

Forgotten Realms had similar guns.

 

Yes, but they were rare and present in isolated places like the island of Lantan, Kara-Tur or on pirate ships.

 

I don't mind guns in the game, I just prefer them to remain rare and not change the feel of the game or balance between magic and sword/ranged weapon based combat.

Edited October 17, 2012 by atn

[Heresiarch]

There is a problem with representing technologically advanced items in a fantasy universe.

 

Say there's a flintlock weapon at some point in time. In a few hundred years there are going to apper percussion caps and cartridges. Heavy armor becomes useless and so do havy weapons, designed to hack through it. From there you get multishot weapons like carbines and revolvers and in about four centuries your humans are running around with battle rifles and machine guns. So much for millenia-old elven rulers and ancient castles. Speaking of which, they become obsolete by the same time you introduce canons.

 

In the end you are left with snapshot stories about a specific period (much like IRL) or you have to make sure the technological level of your universe progresses with time. Which creaes certain difficulties, since soon enough your elves are going to call themselves "eldar" and your paladins start shouting, "For the God-Emperor!"

[Conconhead]

By firearms I mean old style black-powder rifles, where you have to prime the barrel and add your own fuse. Incredibly powerful but limited to maybe one shot at range before you switch to melee.

[The Guilty Party]

There is a problem with representing technologically advanced items in a fantasy universe.

 

Say there's a flintlock weapon at some point in time. In a few hundred years there are going to apper percussion caps and cartridges. Heavy armor becomes useless and so do havy weapons, designed to hack through it. From there you get multishot weapons like carbines and revolvers and in about four centuries your humans are running around with battle rifles and machine guns. So much for millenia-old elven rulers and ancient castles. Speaking of which, they become obsolete by the same time you introduce canons.

 

In the end you are left with snapshot stories about a specific period (much like IRL) or you have to make sure the technological level of your universe progresses with time. Which creaes certain difficulties, since soon enough your elves are going to call themselves "eldar" and your paladins start shouting, "For the God-Emperor!"

 

So what's the problem? Any game you play, any story you read, any movie you watch, those are snapshots stories of a particular period in some other world, if you want to look at it that way. Unless you are planning on hundreds of years of sequels, it doesn't really matter.

[jivex5k]

This isn't Age of Empires or Civilization here, were not going to see the world advance like that.

[atn]

There is a problem with representing technologically advanced items in a fantasy universe.

 

Say there's a flintlock weapon at some point in time. In a few hundred years there are going to apper percussion caps and cartridges. Heavy armor becomes useless and so do havy weapons, designed to hack through it. From there you get multishot weapons like carbines and revolvers and in about four centuries your humans are running around with battle rifles and machine guns. So much for millenia-old elven rulers and ancient castles. Speaking of which, they become obsolete by the same time you introduce canons.

 

In the end you are left with snapshot stories about a specific period (much like IRL) or you have to make sure the technological level of your universe progresses with time. Which creaes certain difficulties, since soon enough your elves are going to call themselves "eldar" and your paladins start shouting, "For the God-Emperor!"

 

Kara-Tur was set in the D&D universe and it involved basially medieval asia (i.e. gun powder).

 

There were also guns and advanced technology in Lantan (again in D&D), but it was submerged (with all its tech).

[Karkarov]

Haven't they already confirmed firearms are in game? That makes this poll sort of meaningless.

[atn]

Haven't they already confirmed firearms are in game? That makes this poll sort of meaningless.

 

Well, I assume they made all this "we'll build this game taking into consideration your opinions" talk for a reason ?

[Ink Blot]

I generally don't like this type of thing in my fantasy settings, but as Josh has noted (more than once) it's not like they're going to be overpowered automatic 'I Win' weapons. The more I consider it, the more I see some very cool possibilities with them in the game. As an example, I can imagine kegs of black powder as treasure, which can be used for firearms, but perhaps also even used to make bombs/traps. Would be cool to have this as an option to give to your smiths/engineers in your stronghold.

[Tamerlane]

Haven't they already confirmed firearms are in game? That makes this poll sort of meaningless.

 

Well, I assume they made all this "we'll build this game taking into consideration your opinions" talk for a reason ?

At a certain point, it's their thang. Design-by-committee is a terrible, terrible beast. If the community had its way, PE would be a roguelike with no combat and romanceable asexual half-dwarf half-plants in a dark-age steampunk Byzantium in the middle of England.

 

The game is set in an era roughly analogous to our 15th or 16th century. Some technology is a bit worse, some is a bit better, but that's about where we're sitting.

Edited October 17, 2012 by Tamerlane

[Freshock]

I like the idea of using "not too high-tech" firearms. I'm confident they will balance it perfectly.

[Coincidence]

I like the idea of using "not too high-tech" firearms. I'm confident they will balance it perfectly.

 

The big thing is there will probably be long reloading times between each shot because this isn't going to be a machine gun. Guns can jam, you still need to have some skill with them or you will miss because you can't aim, etc.

[Calmar]

Fire arms were used in the Hundred Years' War and the Hussite Wars, alongside with knights and clerics, without ruining the medieval vibe of these events or making medieval tactics instantly obsolete. Chris Avellone further explicitely stated that there is no printing press in P:E, so the general level of technology most likely is not too advanced, either.

Edited October 17, 2012 by Calmar

[Gurkog]

Sawyer mentioned that there will be cannon models used as decoration in cities and such. It will be fitting to have some low-tech handheld firepower. People act like most modern guns weren't first developed before 1950 (hint: they were) just that the current incarnations are a bit different in appearance.

[Pshaw]

I'd prefer them not be in a 'fantasy' game. That said their inclusion won't really bother me. I hope that they do manage to differ from crossbows/bows and other ranged weapons though.

[Caranthir]

Yes. For several reasons:

 

a) firearms can be part of a medieval setting as they appeared in the 14th, maybe already in the 13th century - which still count as middle ages. "I want a medieval setting" therefore is no argument against firearms.

 

b) It's a breath of fresh air

 

c) It's what the developers want to do. Honestly, why did I support PE? Because I loved the games those people had developed (without a community telling them "Do this" or "Don't do that"). I trust those people to make the right decisions for the game ... I don't trust a vocal minority (?) that tells professionals that have come up with fantastic games what to do.