Death

[Tagaziel]

I concur with the OP that, if the player character gets killed, party members should be able to revive him to life. Would make for an interesting reaction.

 

"You sold my artifact sword to bring me back?"

"What did you expect us to do? Bury you and be done with it?"

"But it's an *artifact sword.*"

"But you're alive!"

"Couldn't you just whore Jensen out?"

"..."

Edited September 17, 2012 by Tagaziel

[Troller]

There should be two difficult levels, for casuals and for hardcore gamers, in the casual your characters can't be permanent dead, but in the hardcore gamer difficulty, that's a possibility

High difficulty level can be quite thrilling to play Imo

Edited September 17, 2012 by Nigro

[Domigorgon]

Re-load after party member dies, naturally! Makes even some mid-lever fights more challenging, and forces you to use tactics.

 

Resurrection spells only at higher levels or very expensive; not so that every farmer and their seven sons can afford it.

[Gibbscape_Torment]

Auto-resurrection has been made a staple for a reason. The tediousness one most go through to revive a fallen party member doesn't add anything to the game. Perma death is just a broken mechanic at it's core. A ridiculously small minority would actually continue after having their companions die in combat; the vast majority would just reload.

 

Maybe add a higher penalty to a companions death, but don't make resurrection a chore.

[Jaesun]

The base default game level should should be exactly like it was in the IE game. If your NPC dies, then they die. And I also would like to see Resurrection removed, as that just makes no sense.

[Bos_hybrid]

There should be two difficult levels, for casuals and for hardcore gamers, in the casual your characters can't be permanent dead, but in the hardcore gamer difficulty, that's a possibility

High difficulty level can be quite thrilling to play Imo

 

Then they would effectively have to balance 2 different games. Balance for those with and those without party members.

[Troller]

There should be two difficult levels, for casuals and for hardcore gamers, in the casual your characters can't be permanent dead, but in the hardcore gamer difficulty, that's a possibility

High difficulty level can be quite thrilling to play Imo

 

Then they would effectively have to balance 2 different games. Balance for those with and those without party members.

Well they should allow the player to play solo if he wants...forced companions are kinda lame

[Thraxen]

Auto-res after combat works for me, but inlcude a heavy penalty until you get some real healing (and I don't just mean a chance to rest.) Seems a fair compromise between the reloaders and the realistic resurrectionists.

 

Maybe you can rest in a camp, but if you have a healer in your party then it can help speed up the healing of any serious injuries. Otherwise natural healing would take several months if you're too cheap to afford any healer at all.

[Malcador]

I'd be fine with permanent death, so party member dies - well too bad. Could also have an 'incapacitated' state if they don't get gibbed or something along those lines, party member is out for a period and needs an apothecary or whoever to look after them before they're back.

[Shadenuat]

Every DM knows that when players characters can't suffer death with all the consequences of bringing comrade half the world back to some temple and selling their last scraps of loot to bring guy back it gets boring very fast, no matter how good your story or monsters are. Don't hold player's hand. We want thrill. At least I do.

[CrazedWeevil]

To be honest I don't mind the 'dead' party members getting back up after the battle mechanic, though it does tend to promote reckless play since there isn't really a down side and can make combat seem more of a chore than a challenge. However it does sort of fix something of a pet hate of mine; having to reload because one of my characters rolled a 1 at exactly the wrong moment (instant death on failed saving throws FTW ) which always seemed to happen to me far too often no matter how much I tried to stack the deck with potions / spells and the like.

 

Don't get me wrong, I liked the combat system of all the classic IE games and the sense of achievement when you take something big down, but I would like a system that doesn't have unavoidable death spells and abilities in it (and this goes for the players as well...got to earn that XP not just cast Power Word Kill with Extreme Prejudice at everything) so I can avoid having to reload because of bad luck. I should only lose people because I used bad tactics or didn't study my enemy enough. I'll probably still end up reloading though because I don't lose people damn it...unless the plot demands it in which case damn you plot guy!

 

Personally I would use a system like the old D&D rules whereby a character that has lost all its hit points goes into a 'downed' state. If you don't get to them quickly enough they will die. Only a few of the D&D games did this but it gives you a chance to save people in close fought battles without having to rely on high level / costly magic.

 

Of course options are always good so everyone can play the way they prefer so having the death system linked to the difficultly setting would be great, especially if you can have a custom difficultly setting so you can choice which bits you want to be more difficult.

[Jozape]

 

Ideally, a Storm of Zehir-like death (agony when at 0 HPs, if not healed, death). And no Resurrection spell at all. At all. Magics like that completely break the setting. After all, if you can get revived for a thousand gold pieces, everyone that isn't a poor beggar should be essentially immortal (until death of old age) - but somehow that doesn't affect the world at all. See Baldur's Gates. How many times an important persona died permanently? Where were those spells then?

 

I could agree to Resurrection if the world was created in a way that reacted to this. But it's pointless to shape it according to a little gimmick.

 

I agree, but they could build in in-game reasons for those people not getting revived, like having no friends/insurance that would go to that length to revive them, or even allowing them to be revived if the player does not cover every possibility.

[Hurlshort]

Realistically, given the resources that go into creating party members, I doubt you will see any permanent deaths. I prefer the idea of crippling injuries myself. When you die, you are crippled until you see a surgeon or something.

 

End game on total party wipe, but as long as one survives, folks can get back up and stumble home.

[1varangian]

I think the optimal death system would be one where...

 

- PC's can die in combat and death is permanent.. but

- being knocked out happens often but a PC actually dying takes a lot of damage (some kind of Life / Vitality buffer after being knocked out)

- resurrection does not exist, or comes with a terrible price

- no instant death magic that can one hit high level PCs

[Gibbscape_Torment]

Every DM knows that when players characters can't suffer death with all the consequences of bringing comrade half the world back to some temple and selling their last scraps of loot to bring guy back it gets boring very fast, no matter how good your story or monsters are. Don't hold player's hand. We want thrill. At least I do.

 

Dear god, you find putting aside an hour of game time to slug through the ressurection process thrilling?

 

Jumping in a pool without floaties must give you one hell of an adrenaline rush.

[Gfted1]

I wonder if they can work around the old "PC dies so game over". Will we be able to take control of a NPC to administer ressurection to the PC?

[Pidesco]

A death system similar to Storm of Zehir would be ideal. Also, if magical resurrection is used, party NPC feedback to deaths and resurrections should be done, in the interest of a game world that is reactive and alive.

 

Aditionally, repeated resurrection should have increasing costs, monetary or otherwise.

[Enoch]

Realistically, given the resources that go into creating party members, I doubt you will see any permanent deaths.

I very much doubt this as well. Additionally, with the 6-8 joinable-NPC count that the stretch goals have given us, allowing jNPCs to die permanently could very quickly put the player into a situtation where he or she can't field a full party.

 

Also, I agree with others who have posted their dislike of viable resurrection as a matter of developing the gameworld. It's just such an extreme change from the Human Condition As We Know It, it can't help but make the setting and characters less relateable to the player.

Edited September 17, 2012 by Enoch

[Troller]

I wonder if they can work around the old "PC dies so game over". Will we be able to take control of a NPC to administer ressurection to the PC?

Well if there is enough loyalty in your companions, this might be reasonable

[el pinko grande]

I'd prefer there be no resurrection system, and also no perma-death. Spells like Resurrection and Raise Dead have terrible implications for story if you actually take them seriously, and perma-death just leads to reloads, as virtually everyone has pointed out.

 

I'm very much in favor of the sort of system where getting KO'ed in combat leads to injuries you can't shake until you visit a healer. Ideally, I'd like there to be a bunch of different injuries you could acquire with different penalties, the sort of injury you get being determined by the type of attack that dropped you. It avoids the reload problem, but it also carries implications beyond just that one single fight. Plus it'll make that visit back to town after exiting the dungeon all the more sweet, as you sell off your loot and finally take care of those accumulated injuries.

[Domigorgon]

In Baldur's Gate your character could get turned to stone. Not for the duration until you kill the basilisk. Permanently. Well, until you find a scroll that dispels the petrification.

In Baldur's Gate II your character could get Imprisoned (a spell that seals him alive in an underground bubble).

 

Characters should be able to die and receive serious injuries (in Fallout, for example, you could end up with a broken leg or an injured eye). Auto-healing and dying-only-when-everybody-dies killed the old-school feel of RPGs. I used to know a hard fight when I had to constantly re-load, preparing accordingly before the battle (buffs and potions) and adapting my tactics to the situation.

 

Kangaxx was a real pain. I still treasure the moment when I finally beat him.

Edited September 17, 2012 by Domigorgon

[Infinitron]

The mechanic in NWN2: SoZ or DA:O is build to avoid super-frequent reloading or super-cheap resurrections (and their implications).

 

 

These two aren't exactly the same. In SoZ, once you go unconscious, you slowly "bleed out" and die (unless you have exactly 0 HP IIRC)

Edited September 17, 2012 by Infinitron

[Nonek]

I'd like to be punished with a game over screen if I don't do well enough, there seems to be a modern fear of having to reload being a terrible game breaking thing, to me it's a kick in the teeth saying, "Belt up and do better Boyo." In the Witcher 2 there were a couple of instances where you're in a dangerous situation, and if you try anything smart you simply get killed. That was refreshing. They weren't pandering to me, or railroading me into following their plot points, they simply made clear the danger and it was my choice to blunder.

 

This works even better with an insane mode, where if you die your saves get wiped. Real risk and consequence.

[Gurkog]

The game is supposedly based around souls. What if the physical manifestation of people/creatures is just a product of the soul's will to enter that plane of existence. The more often the shell dies the more difficult it is for the soul project its image. Ressurection might only involve providing a beacon for the soul to focus on. A character might always be resurrectable unless you wait too long and it moves on to other things/planes of existance.

[^Rayne^]

This is an interesting discussion, and I see both sides point of view here. However, there are some interesting directions never taken in any of these Computer RPG's that perhaps should be considered. What if in battle those fighting your PC's rarely killed because it was better to knock folks unconscious and then sell the PC's into slavery? Then you find your possessions are taken and you're working in a mine or fighting in a gladiatorial arena and have to escape and recover your lost belongings and save your companions.

 

This is just one example of how to change the dynamic a bit. If at least one or two members of the party survive a big fight they can heal their friends and get them back up. If there was a difference between knocking a PC out and killing them with some safe zone between the two it would allow for less reloading. I imagine a little reloading is going to happen regardless, but if the system allows a bit more creativity it could be fun. For example what if you were fighting in a dungeon that trapped the souls of those knocked unconscious (either through sleep or fighting) and the party had to break their companions souls out of the device holding them to get their friends back? It may add urgency if the party is declining in numbers but it would also be a reason not to just up and reload because the challenge is part of the journey.

 

If more locations didn't allow one to save unless they did so from a secure location that too could create interesting challenges. I would love the idea of actually having to find good defensible locations to secure for rest in order to recover and use as a save point.

 

I also have to say that PT handled death in an interesting way. What if the main character was semi-immortal but whose sould still had to wrestle some maze or series of obstacles in order to return to his/her body. The Player Character might even gain some sort of inner knowledge each time he returns, maybe he hears and sees things in these moments from the souls that are dead that helps him/her learn more about some hidden elements in the plot?

 

I think this game will give the designers and opportunity to try something a little different perhaps very exciting. Still I won't complain if I see a basic rehash of the BG and IWD system.