Piracy

[Zoraptor]

It is good thing to remember that not all TPB's directions lead to illegal asterisks, which might make banning the whole site illegal in itself. At least that's what is currently happening in Finland.

If a massage parlor gives legitimate massages, but doesn't stop its therapists from giving a little extra on the side, it can still run the risk of getting shut down.

That's not a good analogy. The testing under the law for torrents was the same as for the earlier RIAA/ MAFIAA bete noirs, VCRs and tapes in the 70s/80s- they only require legitimate uses in order to be legal, not for all uses to be legal. It is somewhat different for sites that actually host files like megaupload if they ignore warnings, see below. Copyright also requires an active defence rather than a passive one (excluding large scale counterfeiting and other actually criminal rather than civil infractions), the copyright holder has to object to its incorrect use which is absolutely sensible, as in most cases there's no reasonable and intrinsic way to determine copyright ownership and the extent of fair use exceptions and the like.

 

What TPB is doing is more like having a noticeboard saying "Wanna good time? Go to this address". Could mean drugs, could mean prostitution. Could mean bingo night or a course of cordon bleu cooking.

 

If the therapist conducts their freelance work at the parlor, then the parlor may be shut down. It usually requires a few warnings and investigations first to see if the owners are actively trying to prevent the illegal activity.

 

What I'm saying here is TPB is not actively trying to prevent any illegal activity at their site, and so they can be held responsible.

Doesn't seem to work that way on the Internet. Read up on Kim dot Com's case, they were able to bust him because there's alleged proof that they not only knew that illegal **** was going on in their servers, but also actively encouraged it to make money.

Megaupload is a different case from TPB as they actually hosted the files directly, rather than just directions to them. As such they were always more vulnerable since they were potentially making a direct breach of copyright.

 

Having said that, there seems to be a fair bit of doubt that the charges will stick even there, and the procedurals have been an abject mess from both the US and NZ sides of the equation. Enough so that people are already speculating on whether we'll have to give all Mr .Com's seized assets back- amazingly, even if exonerated we wouldn't have to thanks to that grubby little fascist Simon 'ultimate' Powaaaaaah. I'm just thankful his convict by accusation law was too much even for our government and that he's buggered off to be a banker.

[LadyCrimson]

But this is a grown up discussion

...

 

Personally I too have a problem with material being withheld simply because it's not profitable to release and in many ways I think the current copyright laws are outdated in a digital society, but simply releasing all material for free would be detrimental to the creative process unless our entire value system was reworked of course, but since that isn't gonna happen anytime soon authors and creators of content need to be paid in order to motivate them to keep on producing.

I agree with this for the most part, actually. Copyright laws are definitely outdated and need to be re-worked to fit into this new "digital" era. And sometimes an artist may even see more long-term profit by making something initially freely available.

But I still don't see an owner of something not wanting to share it (for whatever reasons) as being "wrong"....at least, not in terms of art/music/TV/games (entertainment). I would, however, object strenuously if a company held a patent/owned the cure to cancer or clean, safe, very cheap energy and refused to share it/produce it/distribute it or priced it so only the moderately to super rich could afford it etc. (edit) In fact I'm not sure such things should really be "owned" in the first place, altho I'm not savvy enough to be able to think up some kind of alternate concept that would work with current social/economical structure.

Edited May 2, 2012 by LadyCrimson

[Delfosse]

Delfosse, you need to cool it a bit - you are throwing generalizations left and right at people disagreeing with you, that's not a good approach.

Well it's my approach anyway. Would that I could help it. Some opinions just get on my nerves.

 

Personally I too have a problem with material being withheld simply because it's not profitable to release and in many ways I think the current copyright laws are outdated in a digital society, but simply releasing all material for free would be detrimental to the creative process unless our entire value system was reworked of course, but since that isn't gonna happen anytime soon authors and creators of content need to be paid in order to motivate them to keep on producing.

Why would it be detrimental? People would suddenly drop dead or go work at factories? Most people who produce content just do it cause they like doing it. I know Gene Hackman only starred in films that payed well, but he's sort of an exception. Colin Farrell starred in Fright Night just cause he loved the original movie. Most painters paint not cause they hope selling their art, because they know they most probably won't. Etc, etc. Most creative people create because they want to, not for money.

 

The value system has to be reworked? I think just the tax system has to be reworked. It must be scalable. The more you earn, the more you pay in percentages. Make it the way that nobody can earn more than 2 mil per year. And when that happens, the price on creative content will drop to $5 a game/film/audio disc.

Edited May 2, 2012 by Delfosse

[Delfosse]

But I still don't see an owner of something not wanting to share it (for whatever reasons) as being "wrong"....at least, not in terms of art/music/TV/games (entertainment). I would, however, object strenuously if a company held a patent/owned the cure to cancer or clean, safe, very cheap energy and refused to share it/produce it/distribute it or priced it so only the moderately to super rich could afford it etc. (edit) In fact I'm not sure such things should really be "owned" in the first place, altho I'm not savvy enough to be able to think up some kind of alternate concept that would work with current social/economical structure.

Entertainment is as much important for human beings as food, medicine and energy.

[Gorgon]

I'm reminded of The People vs. George Lucas.

 

Is there such a thing as imminent public domain. Something that for the good of the planet should belong to everyone, regardless of who holds the copyright. I liked the idea of trying to obtain a court order for the original Star Wars wheels anyway.

[LadyCrimson]

Entertainment is as much important for human beings as food, medicine and energy.

Oh, I agree that play/entertainment/art is/can be very important to the human psyche - to varying degrees for any individual. But there are plenty of ways to feed/nurture that side of ourselves that don't require "pirating" what is currently considered owned material. Learn to paint yourself, create your own movies, play baseball w/some buddies, and on and on.

 

A cure to cancer, on the other hand, is not something the general population can just whip up in their basement in their spare time.

[Delfosse]

But there are plenty of ways to feed/nurture that side of ourselves that don't require "pirating" what is currently considered owned material. Learn to paint yourself, create your own movies, play baseball w/some buddies, and on and on.

 

After you.

 

Have you ever tried feeding one dog and giving nothing to another and make it watch the other one eat? Now think of how it works with humans.

 

Anyway, do try to live without TV/PC/BOOKS/MUSIC for a week. Come home every day after work and don't do any of it, and don't do anything that costs money (baseball, making movies and even painting costs). Then report back.

 

Everyone is so big on giving advices these days from their candyland...

Edited May 3, 2012 by Delfosse

[Orogun01]

Ok, would you still agree (as many of those pirate groups do) to support the developers of the games that you've enjoyed?

[LadyCrimson]

Anyway, do try to live without TV/PC/BOOKS/MUSIC for a week. Come home every day after work and don't do any of it, and don't do anything that costs money (baseball, making movies and even painting costs). Then report back.

 

Everyone is so big on giving advices these days from their candyland...

There's no "after you" here. I'm of the generation that grew up without home PC's/tablets/cellphones and strict parents re:entertainment - so used to entertaining myself without. Even since my kiddie years, I've gone without those things, for weeks, months, sometimes more, and I survived just fine. Sometimes I even felt better for it (but not always). But it wasn't because I was destitute/forced to that I went without, it was by choice, so feel free to disparage me more for reasons of assumed or actual privilege, if it makes you feel better. I don't mind.

 

At any rate, monetary privilege is not the main point, imo, since the big cry I see re: the Pirate Bay is that it's censorship. I personally don't see it as censorship. The UK is not saying you can't use bittorrent to pass information or free speech. It's saying they want to prevent access to one particular torrent web-linking website that is well known for making tons of intellectual property - that is not legal to freely distribute - easily found/discovered by the masses. All in one spot. Shutting down a middleman, so to speak (with a so-sorry to that 2% who might be using the pipeline legitly). This doesn't prevent or outlaw you from downloading what you want - it just makes it a tiny bit harder, at least temporarily, to discover where it's going to be. Hence, not censorship. But I'm sure you'll disagree....others might too. That's fine, it's just my opinion, not asking anyone to share it.

 

Also, imo, people who constantly and knowingly abuse current copyright laws because the digital era has made it so easy that they think it's a personal right to do so - they are one (of many) of the reasons governments may end up regulating the internet (which I'm against). eg. Due to economic/political pressures (not all of which I'd agree with) I think it's much more likely they'll try regulating the internet before they actually abolish intellectual property law or even significantly change it, and I think a regulated internet would be far worse in most cases than an occasional ban or dismantlement of a single torrent site/IP.

 

Btw, this early comment from you:

I download approximately 10-15 gigabytes per month of historical and political shows that aired in Russia on free television channels

I don't know how it's done in Russia, but in the US, just because a TV channel is "free" (to view/watch/get the signal) doesn't make the content then freely distributable. Perhaps it's different in Russia, but if (notice I say if) the Pirate Bay had a ton of UK programming listed on its site, that's still (by UK laws) illegal and thus not a legit torrent use...and therefore something they may try to act upon as it relates to their own country.

 

That's it from me. Insult me and my ignorance all you want now...you can have the last word.

Edited May 3, 2012 by LadyCrimson

[Malcador]

Ok, would you still agree (as many of those pirate groups do) to support the developers of the games that you've enjoyed?

 

Once they're on a Steam sale *nod*

[Mamoulian War]

Ok, would you still agree (as many of those pirate groups do) to support the developers of the games that you've enjoyed?

 

When I started PC gaming in 1994, TES Arena was not for sale in my country. A few years later, the gaming business started to grow in here as well and it was possible to actually buy the games, so I purchased Daggerfall and started to buy another RPGs, like Baldur s Gate etc, etc etc... Unfortunately, at some point the business again went downward, and at some point it was impossible here to buy Neverwinter Nights for expample, but 2 or 3 years later, finally Paypal started to accept Credit Cards issued in my country as well, and first thing I have done with my new Paypal account, was to import Neverwinter Nights Platinum Edition from USA.

 

Stories like this introduce many young people in piracy in the first place, they want to play some awesome game which they read about on the internet, but there is absolutely no legal mean of how to purchase it in my country... We still do not have XBox Live nor PSN, despite being members of EU for very very long time, even the stupid iStore was unavailable here until Apple finally started it here last year...

Edited May 3, 2012 by Tigranes

[Amentep]

Stories like this introduce many young people in piracy in the first place, they want to play some awesome game which they read about on the internet, but there is absolutely no legal mean of how to purchase it in my country... We still do not have XBox Live nor PSN, despite being members of EU for very very long time, even the stupid iStore was unavailable here until Apple finally started it here last year...

 

I don't understand why "I want to play some awesome games but there's no legal mean to purchase" automatically resolves to "I should illegally acquire the game".

 

Not trying to make a value judgement here, but I don't see how one justifies the other.

Edited May 3, 2012 by Amentep

[Mamoulian War]

Stories like this introduce many young people in piracy in the first place, they want to play some awesome game which they read about on the internet, but there is absolutely no legal mean of how to purchase it in my country... We still do not have XBox Live nor PSN, despite being members of EU for very very long time, even the stupid iStore was unavailable here until Apple finally started it here last year...

 

I don't understand why "I want to play some awesome games but there's no legal mean to purchase" automatically resolves to "I should illegally acquire the game".

 

Not trying to make a value judgement here, but I don't see how one justifies the other.

 

Because there was for very long time no legal way how to obtain ANY game in my country... Lot of people had money for good computers, but no one offered them any possible way how to actualy buy a game or music...

 

If you were fan of Iron Maiden, which were not actualy available to buy legaly in our country as an example for a very long time, you would be retarded to switch to New Kids on the Block, just because it was possible to but it legaly in 1990 here...

 

 

So it was with the game before 1995 only Ocean, Domark and Gremlin had sold games here legaly, if you were fan of Mortal Kombat, you would actualy not buy yourself A-Train, would you??? You would find a way of how to obtain the Mortal Kombat, and many people with CD burners did see this potentials and supplied whole country with burned copies of the games. And at this time in my, it was legal to buy counterfeit goods, it was only illegal to sell them... Crooks just supplied games for the big demand, buyers did not break any law, everyone was happy, of course not the publishers, but it was their problem of not trying to care for new emerging market... People here just wanted to experience the entertainment on the same level, like people in neighbour Austria.

 

I know it is hard for many of you to understand this, because you never actualy experienced anything like this in your country...

 

It's the same, like with prohibition in US. There was no legal way how to obtain booze, but people were still buying it from shady sources, and they did not feel guilty for this, they just wanted to experience the same thing like people in neighbour Canada.

[Hurlshort]

The problem is now you have plenty of legal ways to get games and music, and yet piracy is still rampant.

[Malcador]

Probably cheaper than legal means in those countries where most of the pirated content's being bought. Just a cost calculation.

[Mamoulian War]

The problem is now you have plenty of legal ways to get games and music, and yet piracy is still rampant.

 

The same situation is now happening in Brasil, India etc etc, these are the games with biggest piracy atm, the piracy in modern world is a just a small fraction, and instead of trying to find a way how to get successful market share in these countries many companies rather start to punish legal customer in NA and EU, just to squeeze more of the money out of them... In short term it may bring some net gain, but imo in long term they gonna suffer from this... It started with Limited activations, continues with online only singleplayer, removing LAN play, turning off servers and end up with destroying second had market...

 

At some point they will piss off most of their current customers...

[Gfted1]

...everyone was happy, of course not the publishers, but it was their problem of not trying to care for new emerging market... People here just wanted to experience the entertainment on the same level, like people in neighbour Austria.

 

Its the manufacturere fault for not selling in every jerkwater region of the world? Are you serious? Thats laughable.

 

My neighbor drives a phat 7-series BMW and I only have a lowly 2004 Hyundai. I think Ill go jack one tonight because I deserve to experience that for free.

[Malcador]

I think his point was along the lines of them charging you some insane price related to what they would charge him. Although Austria is in a jerkwater region of the world, it would be a good idea for someone to go buy stuff there and bring it back. Not that feasible I suppose.

[kirottu]

http://torrentfreak....ng-tips-120502/

 

 

Edited May 3, 2012 by kirottu

[Orogun01]

At the moment I find it hard to frown upon piracy since it did help me to get the September/2011 UDK Beta without which I would find myself in a bind.

Quite frankly aside from GOG and whatever other sites are dedicated to preservation of media, piracy does maintain a large number of games that would be impossible to get on the market since their systems have already expired.

[Amentep]

Stories like this introduce many young people in piracy in the first place, they want to play some awesome game which they read about on the internet, but there is absolutely no legal mean of how to purchase it in my country... We still do not have XBox Live nor PSN, despite being members of EU for very very long time, even the stupid iStore was unavailable here until Apple finally started it here last year...

 

I don't understand why "I want to play some awesome games but there's no legal mean to purchase" automatically resolves to "I should illegally acquire the game".

 

Not trying to make a value judgement here, but I don't see how one justifies the other.

 

Because there was for very long time no legal way how to obtain ANY game in my country... Lot of people had money for good computers, but no one offered them any possible way how to actualy buy a game or music...

 

If you were fan of Iron Maiden, which were not actualy available to buy legaly in our country as an example for a very long time, you would be retarded to switch to New Kids on the Block, just because it was possible to but it legaly in 1990 here...

 

See I'd not buy New Kids on the Block and just deal with my disappointment that I couldn't get any legitimate Iron Maiden stuff.

 

So it was with the game before 1995 only Ocean, Domark and Gremlin had sold games here legaly, if you were fan of Mortal Kombat, you would actualy not buy yourself A-Train, would you??? You would find a way of how to obtain the Mortal Kombat,

 

Actually, I just would get over my disappointment that I couldn't get a version of Mortal Kombat to play at home.

 

It's the same, like with prohibition in US. There was no legal way how to obtain booze, but people were still buying it from shady sources, and they did not feel guilty for this, they just wanted to experience the same thing like people in neighbour Canada.

 

Well, except Alcohol can be physically addictive so I'm not sure its directly correspondant (although I suppose an argument can be made that entertainment media could also cause addictions).

 

Thanks for the answer though; I suppose that my own personal viewpoint is such that the rationale in the illegal acquisition of some things is hard for me to put into perspective.

[mkreku]

They never sold the original Gothic in Sweden.

 

And get off your high horses, Amentep and Gfted1. Do you honestly think anyone believes that if you were in the situation where you can read about games, you can see other people play the games, you know everyone in the world except in your country can play the games (something which is extremely annoying and makes you want to hurt someone.. basic human emotions), and you see the games one mouse click away on the internet, that you would not click that link?

Edited May 3, 2012 by Tigranes

[Hurlshort]

Jagged Alliance 2, my favorite game ever, was actually released in Europe many months before it made it to the US. While I was upset and really really wanted to play it, I still waited until it finally got released stateside. There are Japanese games that don't get released here as well. The fact is these are still just pieces of entertainment, and my life goes on whether I play them or not.

 

mkreku, are you really saying there was no legal option to get Gothic? You couldn't have someone buy it and send it to you? You couldn't wait until it was available for purchase online somewhere?

[Gfted1]

And get off your high horses, Amentep and Gfted1. Do you honestly think anyone believes that if you were in the situation where you can read about games, you can see other people play the games, you know everyone in the world except in your country can play the games (something which is extremely annoying and makes you want to hurt someone.. basic human emotions), and you see the games one mouse click away on the internet, that you would not click that link?

 

Whether or not random internet people belive me is beyond my capacity to care. I have never once pirated any digital medium. Lots of people have lots of things that I dont and remarkably Ive never stolen to compensate for that. That just blew your mind didnt it?

Edited May 3, 2012 by Tigranes

[mkreku]

Whether or not random internet people belive me is beyond my capacity to care. I have never once pirated any digital medium. Lots of people have lots of things that I dont and remarkably Ive never stolen to compensate for that. That just blew your mind didnt it?

No, it's OK, I already thought you were a liar.