Piracy

[Hurlshort]

I agree that we are experiencing a great period of indie development. The success stories of Minecraft and Braid has really inspired a whole slew of folks to go for the indie dream. But the piracy still sucks for those indie developers. They are usually only asking for a few bucks and their hard work still gets ripped off with way too much regularity.

 

Piracy must be extremely frustrating for an indie developer. Don't give me any bull about free advertising either.

[greylord]

I agree that we are experiencing a great period of indie development. The success stories of Minecraft and Braid has really inspired a whole slew of folks to go for the indie dream. But the piracy still sucks for those indie developers. They are usually only asking for a few bucks and their hard work still gets ripped off with way too much regularity.

 

Piracy must be extremely frustrating for an indie developer. Don't give me any bull about free advertising either.

 

Piracy has always been a problem, not just for the Indie developer...but for all producers and creators of gaming. It goes back to at least the floppy days (remember...don't copy that floppy!).

 

The difference now is that the big time boys, the big Producers are literally pushing customers away and into the arms of the Indies, the Pirates, and the consoles whilst wondering why they are getting lower sales on their own games and putting the entire blame on the Pirates...instead of realizing that they are the cause of lost sales as well as there are other factors involved.

 

You can't remain openly hostile to your consumer base and expect to continue to expand in a market.

 

The Indies have gotten something which most producers haven't...that distribution, innovation and imagination...and not accusing your LEGAL customers of being the bad guys, may mean piracy still occurs...but it also means attaining a larger consumer base than you would have had you avoided those factors in the first place (unlike the status quo, DRM laden, just like the last game they released drudge that many big time game producers shove out the doors these days).

 

Pushing hostile DRM that punishes the consumer and treats them like criminals isn't a way to win customers...in fact I'm amazed that they even still have any customers with that approach. It's probably ALSO idiots like me who still buy that occasional computer game because we prefer PC overall...and will actually put up with a little evil meanheartedness from a Producer.

 

Still...even as I'm an idiot for occasionally buying these DRM things on PC...I do most of my gaming on a console these days.

Edited December 13, 2011 by greylord

[Hurlshort]

The problem with your argument is that it should mean that indie games are less pirated than big budget DRM filled games. The evidence shows nothing of the sort, with some indie studios claiming that 90% of the people playing their games pirated them.

 

Even the Humble Indie Bundle that was offered for 0.01 cent was pirated by about 25% of the players. That's insane.

Edited December 13, 2011 by Hurlshot

[Malcador]

Nah, that's not insane, just consistent. Kind of like pirating demos, which is odd but it's done. Heh, it does make me recall the developer that allowed people to pay what they want, then was annoyed that people chose to pay nothing.

[Walsingham]

The problem with your argument is that it should mean that indie games are less pirated than big budget DRM filled games. The evidence shows nothing of the sort, with some indie studios claiming that 90% of the people playing their games pirated them.

 

Even the Humble Indie Bundle that was offered for 0.01 cent was pirated by about 25% of the players. That's insane.

 

Absolutely agree. I mean WTF? Anyone who has cable internet can afford most indie games. Which is where indie games deliberately price themselves. Plus almost all other arguments fall over. There's no DRM, there's no evil corporate behaviour. Just good people trying to make great games and earn a living.

 

No offence, Malcador, but you can cram your 'consistency' up your exhaust flume. Being consistently a complete funtwit does make you less of a funtwit.

[Rosbjerg]

It's not his fault that a segment of gamers are a-holes.. I'm thinking that kind of person simply pirate for the sake of it, their personal sticking-it-to-the-man, without realising (or perhaps simply refusing to) that this behaviour is detrimental to their interests.

[Orogun01]

Absolutely agree. I mean WTF? Anyone who has cable internet can afford most indie games. Which is where indie games deliberately price themselves. Plus almost all other arguments fall over. There's no DRM, there's no evil corporate behaviour. Just good people trying to make great games and earn a living.

 

No offence, Malcador, but you can cram your 'consistency' up your exhaust flume. Being consistently a complete funtwit does make you less of a funtwit.

DRM was never the cause, they probably rationalize as "why should they pay full price for a game made on a low budget?". Big budget games get pirated more simply because there's more exposure and demand for them.

[Malcador]

No offence, Malcador, but you can cram your 'consistency' up your exhaust flume. Being consistently a complete funtwit does make you less of a funtwit.

 

Uh okay ? Point was it's nothing to be shocked at or more outraged over as it's expected as they're being "funtwits" with big games. The reported 25% was a lot lower than I was expecting though.

[Transcendent Prosper]

finally got around to play arkham city, and is driven crazy by the fine scheme of wb games.

1. strip selina out of the game

2. regional restrict the vanilla game on steam few days before release day

3. ship boxed games with a grand chance of redeem code missing

4. regional restrict the dlc purchasing on windows marketplace while it actually sells the vanilla game

5. ask for solid proof for first-hand purchasing which excludes ebay-like platform

6. ?

7. profit!

[sorophx]

Even the Humble Indie Bundle that was offered for 0.01 cent was pirated by about 25% of the players. That's insane.

that's easy to explain. the majority of "pirates" are schoolkids that don't have the means to pay for a game online. they buy games in stores from time to time but the realization that they can get any game for free, for 12-16 year-old kids...

 

anyway, the point about pirating demos is also correct. it's habitual. they tend to check their favorite torrent trackers for all gaming news. so as soon as something pops up, they only need to press the DL button

Edited January 17, 2012 by sorophx

[Lexx]

Wonder how many people are buying a game only after downloading it. I mean, just because 10 people have downloaded a game, it doesn't mean that nobody of them ever will pay for it. Who knows how many of the 25% who downloaded the Humble Indie Bundle bought it later on.

[greylord]

Even the Humble Indie Bundle that was offered for 0.01 cent was pirated by about 25% of the players. That's insane.

that's easy to explain. the majority of "pirates" are schoolkids that don't have the means to pay for a game online. they buy games in stores from time to time but the realization that they can get any game for free, for 12-16 year-old kids...

 

anyway, the point about pirating demos is also correct. it's habitual. they tend to check their favorite torrent trackers for all gaming news. so as soon as something pops up, they only need to press the DL button

 

This is a biggie, more importantly the part of them having no means to pay for a game online. I suppose the sellers could start promoting kids to start stealing their parents Credit Cards and using that, but I think that would create more problems then are already in existence.

 

Right now the online thing is mostly people over the age of 18 I think, at least those buying...simply because a majority (meaning some have acces either via parents or otherwise) of kids under 18 don't have Credit Card access.

[Orogun01]

This is a biggie, more importantly the part of them having no means to pay for a game online. I suppose the sellers could start promoting kids to start stealing their parents Credit Cards and using that, but I think that would create more problems then are already in existence.

 

Right now the online thing is mostly people over the age of 18 I think, at least those buying...simply because a majority (meaning some have acces either via parents or otherwise) of kids under 18 don't have Credit Card access.

Do you agree when ask if you want your password to be remembered? Do you have a paper where you scribble all your multiple passwords? Or do you simply leave your wallet laying around in your room while you're elsewhere in the house? It's fairly easy for a kid to find their parents credit card information. It's even more easy for the naive parents to agree to buy a harmless game while inputing their credit card info and leaving it there for future uses. Which the kid may end up abusing.

 

In the end a kid may end up doing it because they want to play a mature game and their parents won't allow it. Or that they don't want to go through the hassle of being punished by their parents for buying games with their cards.

[pmp10]

Even the Humble Indie Bundle that was offered for 0.01 cent was pirated by about 25% of the players. That's insane.

that's easy to explain. the majority of "pirates" are schoolkids that don't have the means to pay for a game online. they buy games in stores from time to time but the realization that they can get any game for free, for 12-16 year-old kids...

 

anyway, the point about pirating demos is also correct. it's habitual. they tend to check their favorite torrent trackers for all gaming news. so as soon as something pops up, they only need to press the DL button

 

This is a biggie, more importantly the part of them having no means to pay for a game online. I suppose the sellers could start promoting kids to start stealing their parents Credit Cards and using that, but I think that would create more problems then are already in existence.

 

Honestly I'm quite surprised that this is still a problem.

I know a lot of local services that can be used without any real age-checks by cell phone transactions.

Then again maybe expecting the youth to sacrifice so many SMSes is unreasonable.

[sorophx]

not every parent owns a credit card or a paypal account. China, Russia, Ukraine and such are the countries with the most piracy %. where the majority of the population lives below the level of poverty. they can try buy their kid an old PC, and that's about it.

 

fighting piracy in those countries is like "bees fighting honey"

[Walsingham]

No offence, Malcador, but you can cram your 'consistency' up your exhaust flume. Being consistently a complete funtwit does make you less of a funtwit.

 

Uh okay ? Point was it's nothing to be shocked at or more outraged over as it's expected as they're being "funtwits" with big games. The reported 25% was a lot lower than I was expecting though.

 

OK. I got confused. Thought you were saying it was OK for them to bury indie startups which they COULD afford in the same way that they were mildly annoying bigger game companies whose products they could afford less.

[Mamoulian War]

Even the Humble Indie Bundle that was offered for 0.01 cent was pirated by about 25% of the players. That's insane.

that's easy to explain. the majority of "pirates" are schoolkids that don't have the means to pay for a game online. they buy games in stores from time to time but the realization that they can get any game for free, for 12-16 year-old kids...

 

anyway, the point about pirating demos is also correct. it's habitual. they tend to check their favorite torrent trackers for all gaming news. so as soon as something pops up, they only need to press the DL button

 

This is a biggie, more importantly the part of them having no means to pay for a game online. I suppose the sellers could start promoting kids to start stealing their parents Credit Cards and using that, but I think that would create more problems then are already in existence.

 

Honestly I'm quite surprised that this is still a problem.

I know a lot of local services that can be used without any real age-checks by cell phone transactions.

Then again maybe expecting the youth to sacrifice so many SMSes is unreasonable.

 

And that is a part of the problem... The services are local, not worldwide... There are tons of countries where you do not have access to modern stuff like that... Piracy in US or EU is a shame, we have ****loads of possibilities how to buy affordable entertainment, but as sorophx said, there are countries where the average people earn little money and are contributing to piracy by more than 75% and they do not even know, that something like IP even exists...

[Gfted1]

How does an old Chinese computer, undoubtedly powered by rice, run todays modern games? Wait, it doesnt. So they have the money to keep a current rig, electricity and internet connection but the one thing that cant be afforded is the product? Pathetic excuses are pathetic.

[HoonDing]

I doubt legitimate copies of video games are even sold in China. Bootleg copies of pretty much everything are sold in the streets over there.

Edited January 18, 2012 by virumor

[sorophx]

How does an old Chinese computer, undoubtedly powered by rice, run todays modern games?

a well-built PC (even a cheap one) can run most games easily for 3-5 years. you just have to play on lowest settings. I hope you agree that an upgrade every 5 years is a lot less costly than buying games for your child all that time.

Edited January 18, 2012 by sorophx

[Zoraptor]

Yep, my computer is more than 5 years old, and was only mid range when new. Amount I've spent keeping it able to play new games? 130USD if you count the replacement graphics card for when my old one went to Silicon Heavan and a wholly discretionary 2->4GB RAM upgrade. Thats... 3 new games in the US, or less than 2 new games here. And if I were selling it 2nd hand I could barely give it away (in fact I almost certainly would give it away if anyone wanted it, as it isn't worth anything for resale).

[Maria Caliban]

How does an old Chinese computer, undoubtedly powered by rice, run todays modern games? Wait, it doesnt. So they have the money to keep a current rig, electricity and internet connection but the one thing that cant be afforded is the product? Pathetic excuses are pathetic.

The first time I played ME, I did it at a computer that hit 15 FPS at max and slowed down to 3-5 FPS during combat. I had to do the Conduit Run thirty-five times, and only managed it at 640x800, lowest possible settings, with the camera zoomed in on the ground.

 

But I loved the game.

 

I'm replaying it right now on my 1920x1080 screen with my 8 gigs of ram and a GTX 560. I'm noticing for the first time that people have red veins in the whites of their eyes and getting annoyed that some of the lines on women's uniforms are a bit pixelated.

 

Enjoyment is based on expectation. If you know your computer is crap, you play on the minimum settings and are glad that you can play that awesome new title all your friends are talking about without melting your motherboard.

[Gfted1]

You guys make me smile, all rushing to prove how my example is viable. Did you know that you can also still play an Atari 2600?

 

The point is, your poverty induced piracy excuses all fall down when the ONLY thing they cant afford is the software they steal.

[Malcador]

Pirated games are priced better I imagine.

 

If this is true, best DRM ever - http://www.destructoid.com/ubisoft-drm-all...re-219823.phtml

[pmp10]

If this is true, best DRM ever - http://www.destructoid.com/ubisoft-drm-all...re-219823.phtml

That's pretty much the case with majority of activation-based DRM.

Change enough components and you need to reactivate.

Edited January 18, 2012 by pmp10