Fallout: New Vegas

[Lexx]

A bit off-topic, but I think it still somewhat fits Fallout:

 

As we all know, skill-rolls in the actual game with save&load function are kind of worthless, because players can simply reload an older savegame. This nowdays has been countered by gamedevs with replacing it with fixed skill numbers / levels. Some people like it, some don't care and some (like me) have the feeling that this just feels bleh. Additionally to this, games nowdays have minigames (for lockpicking, etc.), to give everything a more interactive touche (which I hate too, but that doesn't matter now).

 

So, a short while back, a few of my FOnline: 2238 team mates and me have sit down and randomly thought about this issue. We love skill rolls, but we agree that it's ****ty, as soon as the player is able to save&load all the time. Now this gave us a new idea: Still performing the skill roll but not in the moment, where the player is using skill x on object y, but in the very beginning of the game. These "pre-rolls" then will be saved. The player will start a new game, create his character and based on his stats (as example, luck could be involved), the basic values of the skill rolls (d100 roll?) for everything in the game, where a skill roll can be possible (in parts of dialogues, lockpicking of containers, stealing, etc.) will be saved and later used in the real calculation where they are needed. (Example: Roll_Hans_Machine_Repair:=56;)

 

This would make it possible to use skill rolls again, which add a kind of little randomness and flow into the game, but also avoids that players are able to simply save&load until they succeed in a task. If they are not able to i. E. open a lock, they still have to higher their lockpick skill, but it will not be a fixed value like "skill% >= 50 == win" needed. The drawback of this, of course, will be that the more checks you have, the more pre-saved rolls are needed. I'll guess such thing could be helped out with adding kind of skill roll categories (like roll for simple lock, normal lock, simple pickpocket, hard pickpocket, etc.) or such stuff is only used for critical rolls of various kind. Obviously, this all is also a question of "is this even needed at all?" but I would like to keep that under the table for now. :>

 

Anyway... I am a bit tired right now and I am not really sure if I could write it down now 100% like we talked about :> But I still think it's somewhat worth thinking about. If it wouldn't make so much work to test it out, I would try it in my Fallout 2 mod and replace skill checks in there with this.

 

Anyone any ideas / feedback / thoughts about such a system?

 

I especially would like to know what Josh would think about it, that's mainly why I posted this here and not somewhere else.

Edited September 14, 2010 by Lexx

[entrerix]

its funny, i actually prefer a "you need 10 levels of lockpick to open this lock" than I do random rolls for skill checks. I like even better the idea that a person with high agility can buy levels of lockpick more cheaply than a person with bad agility. its not a perfect system, but i like it and it makes sense to me

[Enoch]

Civ 4 had a feature like that-- it preserved the seed for the rng with your savegame, so that a reload would give you the same results. (Unless you did things in a different order than before.)

[Lexx]

Yes, I've heard about it (never played any Civ game except the first), but exactly this "unless you do stuff in different order"-thingy is what turns me off again (as it doesn't help the situation).

 

By the way, the research part of Swords of the Stars comes close to what I mean.

Sword of the Stars features a random tech feature that puts a probability on the availability of a tech and the technology required to research it. Probabilities are weighted by race and influenced by the racial backstories (such as Liir proficiency with Biotech). The rest are core technologies and are guaranteed to be researchable (such as the different hull classes and propulsion techs). Thus not every technology or weapon is guaranteed to be available, or may be available through a different technology than in previous games (e.g. Advanced Cloaking, allowing cloaked ships to fire, has a very low probability of being researchable).

Now replace tech with some (critical?) skill roll. Edited September 14, 2010 by Lexx

[sorophx]

I remember a lot of games where reloading doesn't change anything, you'll get the same result again. I'm not sure how it's accomplished, but even if the end result is predetermined, still both are equally useless and don't add much to gameplay value, only frustration. that's the only reason I think mini-games are a better idea. at the same time it bugs me, when you have a minigame AND STILL get to level up respective skills, which is beyond stupid IMHO

[entrerix]

minigames usually just mean that I have to not only reload my last save, but now when I do i also have to replay the minigame.

 

a quick and flat yes or no would be better. or maybe provide a small bonus for completing the minigame but not enough to make it particularly important.

 

a yes or no is best though so i know that i need to improve my skills and then return later to open said door/chest whatever

Edited September 15, 2010 by entrerix

[Slowtrain]

Not a big fan of any gameplay mechanic that leads to "reload until you get it right"

 

I felt the way Deus Ex handled multitools and lockpicks was great.

[mkreku]

I still wish more games would steal the picklock minigame from Dungeon Lords..

[WorstUsernameEver]

Bethesda asking for questions for their podcast

 

Since I have an account on the Bethboards, if you don't want to subscribe just tell me your questions and I'll post them.

 

Posted it on this thread because I imagine 99% of the questions people may have here would be about New Vegas.

[sorophx]

I wonder, if Beth are considering Obsidian as a potential candidate to develop Fallout 4

[WorstUsernameEver]

I wonder, if Beth are considering Obsidian as a potential candidate to develop Fallout 4

 

No they aren't.

 

Any decent question?

[Serrano]

Are Obsidian giving any thought to branching out from RPGs? I know story and characters are Obsidian's strength and they'll obviously want to play to that but their recent games must have given them valuable experience if they ever want to try something different.

[WorstUsernameEver]

Are Obsidian giving any thought to branching out from RPGs? I know story and characters are Obsidian's strength and they'll obviously want to play to that but their recent games must have given them valuable experience if they ever want to try something different.

 

That's actually a pretty good question but I don't think they'd answer that in a Bethblog podcast, sorry.

[Tale]

Not a big fan of any gameplay mechanic that leads to "reload until you get it right"

 

I felt the way Deus Ex handled multitools and lockpicks was great.

I thought the way Deus Ex handled it was boring. But you make a good point about reload. Not sure which I consider the greater evil.

[Slowtrain]

I thought the way Deus Ex handled it was boring.

 

 

I've heard others say the same, and I can see why, since the DX method eliminates both chance and personal (player) skill.

 

But to me it was a perfect solution since it allows any player to pick any lock, if they have enough resources, but those with higher skills will spend fewer resources per lock and be able to pick more locks total, allowing them to use that approach to problem solving more often.

 

It rewards character skill while not eliminating player choice. The best of all possible worlds.

[Oner]

I like the skill check (Fallout style) tbh. If your skill is really low, you'll break the lock (in the case of lock picking, duh). If it's in mid range you'll just have to try enough times, which you can do, unless you're being shot at. If it's really high, then there you go, open.

 

I'm not even sure how reloading a save would make a difference, outside of dialogue. Guess it's because I always raise the skills I intend to use.

 

Also, +1 on the DX way.

[Nepenthe]

I thought the way Deus Ex handled it was boring.

 

 

I've heard others say the same, and I can see why, since the DX method eliminates both chance and personal (player) skill.

 

 

I'm sure the same people also complain about minigames and random skillchecks. And everything else, really.

[Tale]

Lockpicking being a choice is not something I exactly buy. The rewards in most games for lockpicking are grossly disproportionate to the costs. Not only do you get more money and equipment, you also get more XP, making up for the initial investment. Deus Ex I can give a pass because it tended, more often than not, to include a key somewhere.

 

That's why I think they tend to go to the minigame route. With the tendency for it to always be worth it, it stops being a choice. If games are designed so that the cost/reward of the choice is a little more inline with the other choices, I can see myself changing my opinion.

 

It's a little different for party based games. It's stll not a choice to have it for the group, but group resource allocation makes it a choice of who to have it for.

Edited September 15, 2010 by Tale

[Starwars]

New Vegas followers and some descriptions of them and their abilities can be found here: http://blog.us.playstation.com/2010/09/15/...ons/#more-35908

 

Sounds like it could be a pretty interesting bunch.

[HoonDing]

Is the Brotherhood of Steel scribe follower voiced by Felicia Day?

[entrerix]

im pretty excited about those npcs. I would not have been that interested in raul except I'm stoked about the VA for him. Does anyone know if the other NPC's have unique voice actors?

 

i'm also really glad they included a robo-dog. it would be cool if in Wild Wasteland you could find another cafe of broken dreams and get dogmeat in it though, just for old times sake.

[Oner]

Is the Brotherhood of Steel scribe follower voiced by Felicia Day?

IIRC yes.

[Enoch]

Well, now we know that "child of a FO2 companion" that MCA was writing.

[C2B]

Well, now we know that "child of a FO2 companion" that MCA was writing.

 

And has the best perk too.

[WorstUsernameEver]

Well, now we know that "child of a FO2 companion" that MCA was writing.

 

Will she too have severe heart problems? That's the question.