Dragon Age 2

[Volourn]

"So you're saying that a half baked game with a DIY kit to finish it up is more ambitious"

 

Not the terms I'd use, but yup definitely more ambitious than BG2.

 

 

" than a full fledged, "

 

K.

 

"largest ever"

 

No, it isn't. Why are you lying?

 

 

", well written"

 

Sure.

 

 

" and interesting RPG?"

 

Sure.

 

 

But, being wellw ritten or interesting does not mean you are being ambitious. BG2 is nothing but a large expansion (sequel) to another game. That's not ambitious. That is literally the dfintion of 'more of the same'. Nothingw rong with that, but don't make stuff up.

 

NWN, by defintion, is more ambitious than BG2 because it tackles soemthinhg BIO had never done before and they were pushing something their audience at the time didin't even want. Heck, that includes me, because before NWN, I never cared about playing games on line period, and I whined like any good BIO basher.

 

BIO tooka risk with NWN and it paid off despite the naysayers. That's ambition.

 

Games like JE, KOTOR, DA, ME, and BG2 are nothing more than BG1 copy cats. And, DA is just a mix wannabe copy cat of Bg and NWN but it utterly failed trying to copy NWN. R00fles!

[HoonDing]

Games like JE, KOTOR, DA, ME, and BG2 are nothing more than BG1 copy cats. And, DA is just a mix wannabe copy cat of Bg and NWN but it utterly failed trying to copy NWN. R00fles!

How's JE a copycat?

[Volourn]

SP game with a focus on story, characters, and combat. Combat style itself is irrelevant.

[Raithe]

SP game with a focus on story, characters, and combat. Combat style itself is irrelevant.

 

 

.. So are you saying that any single player game that has a focus on story and characters..that involves combat.. is a copycat of every other game that does that?

 

Doesn't that basically make every game with a halfway decent story and some interesting characters a copycat of every other game ever written?

 

Personally, I'm of the opinion that if a game has an interesting story, some characters that can pull me in, and a game system that doesn't suck.. you can have fun with it. If the game play is similar to another game, does it matter so much if it's a fresh perspective on a genre story?

 

I can sit back and analyse the bejeezus out of it afterwards and highlight every flaw.. but as long as you can sit down, and play it without a few flaws killing your enjoyment..

[Volourn]

".. So are you saying that any single player game that has a focus on story and characters..that involves combat.. is a copycat of every other game that does that?

 

Doesn't that basically make every game with a halfway decent story and some interesting characters a copycat of every other game ever written?"

 

You make it sound like I'm saying 'more of the same' is bad. It isn't. I take quality over originality any day.

 

Does it make every game that has those features the exact samer? No. But, theyd efinitely are more ambitious than a game that tries to different things, and tries to push gaming in a different direction.

 

With NWN, you can literally play just like you can pnp DnD - none of the other BIO games allow you to do that. That's why it's more ambitious than the other ones including and espicially BG2.

[Bos_hybrid]

Bioware Signature edition

 

Includes bonus playable character? WTF?

[Oblarg]

Bioware Signature edition

 

Includes bonus playable character? WTF?

 

As if the first game's DLC wasn't absurd enough.

 

Wasn't going to buy the game anyway, so I guess it doesn't matter, but I'm afraid this is a sign of things to come - at this rate, simply buying a game will only give you half of the content.

 

If they pull this **** with ME3, I might simply stop buying BioWare products.

[Thorton_AP]

"Which applies to every other Bioware game, ever.

"

 

Nah. That wouldm be NWN. BG2 wasn't ambitious. It was a sequel that was 'more of the same'. With NWN pushed ahead with something that was different, and actually tried something new.

 

A toolset is something new in the world of computer games?

 

I won't dispute that NWN was a more ambitious project than BG2 was, though BG2 was a significantly better game.

[Thorton_AP]

Bioware Signature edition

 

Includes bonus playable character? WTF?

 

The Day One DLC for Dragon Age also included a bonus playable character too. THough that didn't require a special edition.

[Tigranes]

Shale at least was given for free to most customers.

 

DLCs have always been about using simple tricks ("bonus" character, bonuses are good!) to maximise revenue, no going round it. Even free DLCs are simply part of the scheme to get you on the wagon.

[Thorton_AP]

I don't at all disagree that the DLCs are there to help sell the product. Particularly the free ones. The free ones are pretty explicit about being an attempt to marginalize used game sales.

 

I am disappointed that the free bonus character requires a preorder before a certain date

[Monte Carlo]

Simple, don't buy it. I'm not.

 

I'm no averse to DLC but Bio has taken it to a new tacky level of greed.

[entrerix]

it seems to me like they are requiring a preorder for the special character cause they are worried about review scores. otherwise why not just do it like shale? (ie free if you buy a new copy)

[Nepenthe]

it seems to me like they are requiring a preorder for the special character cause they are worried about review scores. otherwise why not just do it like shale? (ie free if you buy a new copy)

 

That's the way it looks like to me, as well. Or there's some other nebulous reason for pushing for the maximum amount of preorders possible, not that I can think of one.

 

Hope this works out better in Europe than the DAO CE fiasco.

 

Edit: Just reminded me of something. Are they saying all the DLC list is EXCLUSIVE to the Signature Edition? In case you guys don't remember, 'Cerberus network' was listed for a long time on the ME2 CE content list (and the contents of the regular edition had not been announced), so a lot of people assumed it was a part of JUST the CE...

 

Edit2: Only the 'in-game armory' is advertised as exclusive. So it might just be another case of misleading advertising (or people jumping to conclusions)

 

Edit3: Looking at the front page, if any of those things listed in the signature edition contents actually were available free with the 'regular' new game, it REALLY would be false advertising. I'd still expect to see something substantial to hamper used resales. :/

Edited October 15, 2010 by Nepenthe

[RPGmasterBoo]

Its strange that people even consider buying preorders just for an extra character especially when we know what, say, ME2's extra character was like.

 

@entrerix: good observation. Of course they have all the reasons to be worried considering that this is a sequel in name only. Especially since the hardcore RPG crowd that had a substantial part in DA's sales is neither blind nor retarded and knows exactly what it wants to play.

 

Considering EA's track record if they screw this and TOR up, they're as good as dead.

Edited October 15, 2010 by RPGmasterBoo

[Nepenthe]

Its strange that people even consider buying preorders just for an extra character especially when we know what, say, ME2's extra character was like.

 

You mean non-existent in the RP sense, but very useful in combat?

 

edit: (Bad day for edits) but in fact, if you play with zaeed, he has at least as many on-mission chats as all the other characters. It's only the lack of the beloved conversation wheel that really sets him apart. Unless you're taking a swipe at all the ME2 NPCs, which might or might not be valid.

Edited October 15, 2010 by Nepenthe

[RPGmasterBoo]

Its strange that people even consider buying preorders just for an extra character especially when we know what, say, ME2's extra character was like.

 

You mean non-existent in the RP sense, but very useful in combat?

 

edit: (Bad day for edits) but in fact, if you play with zaeed, he has at least as many on-mission chats as all the other characters. It's only the lack of the beloved conversation wheel that really sets him apart. Unless you're taking a swipe at all the ME2 NPCs, which might or might not be valid.

 

Which would make him generally useless if you take into account that ME2 is only challenging on the highest difficulty settings.

 

All I'm saying is - if they can cut him from the game and still consider it a complete experience then he/she isn't very important in the long run,no?

[mr insomniac]

Considering EA's track record if they screw this and TOR up, they're as good as dead.

They'll have Mass Effect 3 to fall back on.

[Nepenthe]

All I'm saying is - if they can cut him from the game and still consider it a complete experience then he/she isn't very important in the long run,no?

 

Mmh. I think this goes back to the larger question of what will the squad composition of ME3 be like. Will they just start blank slate (what I am afraid of) because "everybody can die!111zomg!" or actually go with something a lot more ambitious (what I hope for). Since they've been 'positively surprised' by the amount of people importing from ME1 to ME2, the odds for option B are not non-existent, but probably not that good either... :/

 

But, I'll be happy to carry this conversation on in Commander Shepard's favourite thread.

[mr insomniac]

All I'm saying is - if they can cut him from the game and still consider it a complete experience then he/she isn't very important in the long run,no?

Seeing as how all the NPCs are potentially expendable, you could say that for any of them.

 

I mean, since you can only take any two on a given mission, and any mission can be completed with any pairing, any of them could be cut and it ultimately wouldn't matter a bit. So what? NPCs in any game are as important as a player wants them to be.

[Guest Slinky]

or actually go with something a lot more ambitious

[boo]

Haw haw!

[/boo]

 

Seriously though, if the squad members from ME2 are more than short conversations and emails in ME3 I will be so (positively) surprised that I'll need years of therapy to recover.

[Nepenthe]

or actually go with something a lot more ambitious

[boo]

Haw haw!

[/boo]

 

Seriously though, if the squad members from ME2 are more than short conversations and emails in ME3 I will be so (positively) surprised that I'll need years of therapy to recover.

 

Well, Bio have done some pretty amazing stuff in the (distant - depending on your viewpoint) past.

 

I think ME3 is going to be a watershed game for Bio (will they try to push the limits, or settle into a comfortable recycling pattern), just like I see New Vegas as one for Obsidian (can they finally deliver the REAL AAA title people have been expecting from them since before KOTOR2).

[RPGmasterBoo]

I was talking about the DA2 pre order NPC all along, obviously I wasn't clear enough on that.

 

Bottom line: I'd never preorder any game for extra content. Even when its free I don't bother with it. The overall game must stand on its own imo. If its bad or average no amount of addons is going to fix it.

As for ME2 I played through it once, without all the DLCs and I don't intend to play it again just for that.

[Tale]

or actually go with something a lot more ambitious

[boo]

Haw haw!

[/boo]

 

Seriously though, if the squad members from ME2 are more than short conversations and emails in ME3 I will be so (positively) surprised that I'll need years of therapy to recover.

They'd never relegate them to e-mails. E-mail doesn't convey the family drama the series revolves around.

[Volourn]

"DLCs have always been about using simple tricks ("bonus" character, bonuses are good!) to maximise revenue, no going round it. Even free DLCs are simply part of the scheme to get you on the wagon. "

 

Special editions and preorders have been used like that for years. It's nothing new. DLC is just the natural progression of it in this digital age. Ultimiately, it's up tot he consumer what they want. 8shrug*

 

As for it being greed, big deal, no more greedier than customers who are the most evil, selfish, sickest, arrogant, scumbag group in the entire history of the world. I'm just thankful that in the end customers have very little power even though they think otherwise.

 

 

"Especially since the hardcore RPG crowd that had a substantial part in DA's sales is neither blind nor retarded and knows exactly what it wants to play."

 

Define 'significant'. And, yes, the so called 'hardcore RPG crowd' are blind *and* retarted. They're also unnimportant in the grand scheme of things.

 

 

"Considering EA's track record if they screw this and TOR up, they're as good as dead."

 

The chances of BIO EDM (the real BIO) going anywhere anytime soon is very minimal. Yoru wishful thinking means nothing. Plus, I remember the doom and gloom pre DA and we know that turned out. LMAO

Edited October 15, 2010 by Volourn