Dragon Age discussion

[Gromnir]

It does use cliche's but it offers something different as well. You aren't after all saving anything, but on the road to becoming a god - which isn't a common thing in fantasy.

 

uh huh. you see this as a strength of bg2?

 

okie dokie.

 

 

It boils down to this. I always role play an egoistical character that cares more about himself (and his immediate companions) than abstract notions such as saving the world. I can't identify with that sort of thing or any idea larger than the character I'm playing as. The character is always good towards others, but those that are "there and then". Vague concepts of common good don't interest him.

 

BGII allows me to do that. I find it superior because of it.

 

Torment allows me to do that as well.

 

When I role play I want it to revolve around me .

 

Petty? Perhaps, but everyone is entitled to his own role playing style. I think its much harder (and riskier) to pull off a personal plot. Torment did and look at how it ended up. Regardless if done well it scores major points with me.

That's all there is to it.

 

another common complaint of ps:t... people didn't want to play tno. is a crpg, and many peoples wanted/expected to play their own character. you not like tno or his story? tough. ps:t story worked in part 'cause it were having a relatively defined protagonist, but having a more concrete protagonist also alienated some folks.

 

...

 

is a valid complaint. no recent major crpg has gone to extreme degree as did ps:t regarding protagonist definition, but mass effect and kotor are clearly games that is having a more fixed main character... in kotor you is revan, like it or not... and in me you is shephard. simple addition o' allowing gender and appearance choices seemed enough to placate the majority o' people who found the ps:t scheme unpalatable.

 

of course the problem with creating such a story is that as a writer you is expected to develop a single story that works for a a very diverse and ambiguous protagonist. give player options to be kind or selfish, generous and greedy, and yet you gotta all makes work for a single story. tell any novelist that he gotta write a story wherein the protagonist is ambiguous and ill-defined and he will probable think you is kidding. 'course that is exact what crpg writers tries to do, 'cause that is what boo asks 'em to do. is far easier to do such if you distance story from the protagonist... make protagonist less essential. nevertheless, folks like boo keeps asking for antagonistic qualities: player choice and personal involvement. is an unavoidable dead end. is no wonder that folks is never genuine satisfied.

 

personally, we thinks the personal involvement aspect is overrated. would rather have a good story wherein the players character is less focal, but give us greater choice to make personal and world changes. should be obvious that a writer can makes a much more compelling story if they has complete control over the important characters, if they is able to define the character. am willing to sacrifice some of the me, Me, ME if it results in a superior story and more player freedom.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[RPGmasterBoo]

But as Gromnir said, in DA you *ought* to be motivated to stop the Blight. Even if you do consider the "run away" option, where are you going to go? 30 years later, you're going to have to fight them (when it's worse for you) or become one (epically bad). I'd say you have far superior personal motivation to do the plot in DA than you do being a selfish bastard in BG2. Imoen? So what. Irenicus? Let him rot in spellhold. Ironically, the kind of character you're describing fits the plot in DA better, from where I sit, than BG2. That was the problem playing evil in BG2, why the heck would I go to Spellhold when Irenicus already locked away in the best place for him?

 

Why would you care about some vague Blight especially considering the cruel way you were drafted into the Gray Wardens? And having unknowingly lost decades of your life because of it? You never even get to choose to make a sacrifice or at least the illusion that youre making one - you're practically sacrificed by others. Sacrificed by this kind dude that kills family men because they lack his dedication?? To me thats unacceptable.

 

Imoen is your closest friend. In my book thats more important than anything else, if I'm playing a good character. If I'm playing an evil one (which I never do but ok) well *shrugs* power, revenge? Besides spellhold couldn't keep him, and in retrospect if you ran it was logical he would hunt you down. You were necessary to his plans. But yes, that part of the story in BGII hinged more on a good character than on an evil one. In the latter part when he's got your soul, you don't really have a choice anymore.

 

You can't even play an evil character in DA considering that the final goal is 110% altruistic. Instead you get the Spectre deal, work for the common good but you can do it as a good guy or as a bad guy. Either way its a good deed.

 

is far easier to do such if you distance story from the protagonist... make protagonist less essential. nevertheless, folks like boo keeps asking for antagonistic qualities: player choice and personal involvement. is an unavoidable dead end. is no wonder that folks is never genuine satisfied.

 

True, though I'd change never for rarely. I was satisfied with the Witcher of all things and the Witcher's plot, once revealed is nothing special. I suppose Geralt had enough of those "antagonistic"qualities (why antagonistic, though?)

 

*and MotB, though I really dont remember what the primary motivation of the PC was there

 

personally, we thinks the personal involvement aspect is overrated. would rather have a good story wherein the players character is less focal, but give us greater choice to make personal and world changes. should be obvious that a writer can makes a much more compelling story if they has complete control over the important characters, if they is able to define the character. am willing to sacrifice some of the me, Me, ME if it results in a superior story and more player freedom.

 

Fair enough.

Edited February 15, 2010 by RPGmasterBoo

[~Di]

Torment is at the same time a great achievement and a bad game. It steps so far out of its form that it becomes an interactive novel, but its so good at it that few complaints are really valid.

 

Personally I think its as close as video games can get to art that isn't primarily of a visual kind. Torment really takes you to another world, which is a common promise but rarely delivered.

 

I actually agree with everything you've said here. And since we so rarely agree, I leap at this chance! I absolutely adored PS:T, but I too referred to it as an "interactive novel" at the time... much to the consternation of many of its hard-core fans. I can't count the number of times I've been struck by the odd nostalgia and simply had to reinstall to play it just... one... more... time!

 

It takes me to a world I had never seen before, and shall never see again. Truly a great achievement.

[RangerSG]

Boo,

 

The Blight is "vague"? How? You see what they do to everything in their path. And if you know anything about history, you know that it's destroyed whole nations before...and that wasn't hyperbole. Even if you don't care about that, you know that whatever your feeling about your recruitment, it's done. Now most of my PCs did want to become Wardens (not all, but most). But even the ones who didn't understand the simple fact that if they don't fight the Darkspawn now before they destroy everything, they're going to have to later when there's nothing left to fight for. And who knows...maybe along the way you can acquire some power for yourself in a way you can make use of it. That's a whole lot better than waiting around to be the last person turned into darkspawn. I'd call survival a pretty good personal motivator. And the only way you're going to survive is to end the Blight. As Dresden would say, "Saving the world was just a bonus."

[Gromnir]

"Why would you care about some vague Blight..."

 

you did play through ostegar, right? is our recollection that you is pretty much compelled to complete ostegar... sees an ocean o' darkspawn overwhelm fellow grey wardens? learn immediately afterward that darkspawn can sense you. am knowing that folks confronted by a horrible reality can become willful obtuse, but your question pushes bounds o' plausibility. is nothing vague 'bought blight... not for the pc and allister.

 

 

"Imoen is your closest friend. "

 

says who? she were some annoying little brat that kept calling us buffleheaded right up until moment she were savagely killed by enormous spiders, gibberlings, wyverns, or a poorly aimed fireball... can't recall specifics other than that no matter how many times we played bg, imoen mysterious seemed to die immediately before we encountered quayle, coran, or alora. go figure.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Orogun01]

"Why would you care about some vague Blight..."

 

you did play through ostegar, right?

Why? Did you see what Duncan did to that dude! Deserting isn't a matter of just walking to the door and saying you want to live.

 

is our recollection that you is pretty much compelled to complete ostegar... sees an ocean o' darkspawn overwhelm fellow grey wardens? learn immediately afterward that darkspawn can sense you. am knowing that folks confronted by a horrible reality can become willful obtuse, but your question pushes bounds o' plausibility. is nothing vague 'bought blight... not for the pc and allister.

You are not compelled to do anything and if you are they may as well made another "Shepard-esque" character who sounds heroic at every turn and done away with all the coward and thug like dialog option. I mean why would any real person with all his senses try to venture the world to fight an untold horror with a whiny emo bitch and a gothic wannabe witch?

[Maria Caliban]

... Steven Erikson (who's about as non-standard as fantasy gets these days)...

 

While I think his books are okay, they're basically a high level DnD campaign with a new magic system. If you want non-standard fantasy, I'd point towards Labyrinth or Pampilset by Valente or Perdido Street Station by Melville. If you like unusual magic systems, I think all of Brandon Sanderson's work is more interesting.

 

You are not compelled to do anything and if you are they may as well made another "Shepard-esque" character who sounds heroic at every turn and done away with all the coward and thug like dialog option. I mean why would any real person with all his senses try to venture the world to fight an untold horror with a whiny emo bitch and a gothic wannabe witch?

 

I think it's telling that when asked what Duncan would have done after Ostigar, David Gaider said he would abandon Ferelden to the Blight, join up with the Orlesian Wardens and army massed at the border, fortify that position, and take down the archdemon when it tried to enter Orlais.

Edited February 15, 2010 by Maria Caliban

[Volourn]

"Unlike Tolkien who basically created and completed the entire genre in one extremely well written book, those who followed were just pale shadows."

 

O RLY? created an entire genre? Must have been dreaming about Arthur, Merlin, and Camelot. Or Greek Mythology. or the fact that many of the creatures Tolkien used are far older than his oevrrated (but good) novels. He did NOT create the fantasy genre.

 

 

 

"Imoen is your closest friend. "

 

To echo Grom, says who? You, that's who. Not everyone.

 

 

 

"Why would you care about some vague Blight..."

 

Because the 'vague blight' will destroy you, your friends, and your family (barring they didn't betray you in the origins lol). As Grom mentions, the blight is not vague. It's very real, and by the end of Ostagar you know this as fact.

 

By the way, nobody at BIo claimed the Grey Wardens were a paladin order. Their one and only mission is stop the blight AT ANY COST.

[Monte Carlo]

Actually, one of the interesting things DA tried to do was make your character deal with a central problem, i.e. The Blight, in the way you wanted.

 

The Blight is like the Nazis, they want to take over and destroy everything and negotiation is impossible. The war is one of national survival: good, bad and ugly people simply can't ignore it. You can make the end justify the means or you can try to win with honour. Or, like most of us, you do a bit of both depending on the circumstances or what you think you can get away with at the time. And, of course, with the people you are relying on to get the job done --- what do they think?

 

Duncan is an interesting mentor. He's an extremist. A Kamikaze. That dip-sh*t Alistair worships him as some sort of paragon of virtue is revealing. Of course Duncan swindles the desperate into becoming Grey Wardens --- who else would join? It's a foreign legion of the desperate. I'm liking all that. The game doesn't pan out as dark or interesting as the premise but that's another subject.

 

However, this strength is also a structural weakness. The Darkspawn army moves mysteriously slowly. The sense of urgency in DA that should be there isn't. Conversely, a CRPG shouldn't be time trial. Tough one to manage, and I think DA fails. Not an epic FAIL, but I began to feel the Blight was just a plot device, not anchored in the structure of the game as it should have been. I'd have put a Blight-themed challenge in at certain key moments to explain how you were slowing their advance (destroy that bridge, assassinate that general, disrput those supplies) but that's probably the wargamer in me speaking.

 

Nonetheless, if you didn't like Duncan (I was amibvalent) then that's tough. You joined the Wardens out of desperation, your bed was made for you and now you have to lie in it. Funnily, it's a bit like PS:T in that the die is cast for your character.

 

Like I say, bits of DA irritate me greatly --- Elements where greatness beckons just didn't make it, and I simply cannot warm to most Bioware NPCs nowadays, they aren't written for me. So I take the least annoying ones. It's still a great achievement but, and I say this not of nostalgia but because I played both games in the last month --- it ain't no BG2.

 

Cheers

MC

[Tigranes]

I'd have put a Blight-themed challenge in at certain key moments to explain how you were slowing their advance (destroy that bridge, assassinate that general, disrput those supplies) but that's probably the wargamer in me speaking.

 

This is the biggest thing they should have and could have done to improve the middle-game and make the story a lot stronger, actually. If we're talking set-pieces the game between Ostagar and Landsmeet is, basically, BG2's chapter 2 - go hit Side Quest Hub #1 to #4 and get stuff done. The problem is that only one of these hubs are actually affected by the Blight (Redcliffe) and apart from a couple of random areas with darkspawn you don't really see it encroaching. Well, you do. The coffee stain on the world map.

 

Perhaps it was simply cut from the game sometime early on due to scope, but the conference with Arl Eamon and the strategic maneuvres towards the Big Battle should really have been a progressive thing. i.e. It would have been a lot more interesting if an "Arl Eamon" figure could be rescued/recruited in Lothering, and in your little camp begins a base of operations for spywork and real military preparations. You ask for updates and donate the resources to this lieutenant of yours, not the silly 'envoys' that make little sense. Your dwarf and elf and knight friends aren't just used in the final 15 minutes of the game, you take them along when you go to destroy that bridge or hold back darkspwan from that little village while they evacuate (fits the whole LOTR-cinema thing DA has going).

 

I don't know. I guess they had to choose to do *something* and decided they wanted to show the player a lot of the world and have a variety of quests. But I don't see how that couldn't have been done with the Blight actually happening on your doorstep.

[Monte Carlo]

^ Yes, that's the sort of thing I was imagining. It would have been pretty easy to blend them in with the origins as well --- another criticism of the game.

 

Edit --- the Origins and the NPCs. I've got an Orlesian spy, a professional soldier, a shape-changing witch and a commando-assassin with a luxury footwear fetish in my group. Funnily, I can't use them for strategic advantage against the Blight. Which is a shame.

Edited February 15, 2010 by Monte Carlo

[mr insomniac]

The only drawback I could see in the things Monte Carlo and Tigranes are talking about is that not everyone plays the game in the same order. perhaps it's not difficult to work around as i'm thinking, but if you're gonna have events occur at certain key times, especially in the scope of hordes (or units or companies if you prefer) of darkspawn, and arl eamon, for example, is a key component of that event... well player A and Player B may not go to Redcliffe at the same time, or may not go in search of the Urn at the same time, etc.

 

I'm thinking that in order to work around that, the key events need to be more generic, and ultimately have less impact on the overall game, such as the hiring of, and subsequent encounter with Zevran.

[Monte Carlo]

^ I don't know if we are speaking about different things here.

 

What I'm getting at is that there are key points in the game that apply to everybody (i.e. Ostagar / Landsmeet). As Tigranes says, inbetween you complete the main quest hubs and apart from the invasion of Lothering (a la the 'coffee stain' on the map and the occasional overland encounter) there isn't much to suggest that there is A DESPERATE WAR WITH THE FORCES OF UTTER RAMPAGING EVIL going on.

 

What I would have liked is two or three episodes, which don't all have to be hack'n'slash, to show you slowing the advance. Maybe you need to persuade someone to do something, like rally their forces and block a route of advance. Leliana might have to flutter her eyelids to achieve that one. Yes, in one episode you might have to take action --- kill the vanguard of Emissiaries to blunt an advance, maybe Sten needs to show you how his unit does things. Maybe you need one of the existing allies to do something pre-emptive, maybe the Dalish need to be mobilized to engage in early guerilla war to draw the Darkspawn into the woods....

 

I'm sure you see what I mean. Any one of these objectives is triggered by achieving any number of hub quests.

 

OK, it's a resource thing, so move the Chanter's Board or one of the Fedex-heavy stuff like Blackstone irregulars.

 

Result? Increased immersion. Fun. Feeling involved. Impactive gameplay.

 

Cheers

MC

[Walsingham]

^ Yes, that's the sort of thing I was imagining. It would have been pretty easy to blend them in with the origins as well --- another criticism of the game.

 

Edit --- the Origins and the NPCs. I've got an Orlesian spy, a professional soldier, a shape-changing witch and a commando-assassin with a luxury footwear fetish in my group. Funnily, I can't use them for strategic advantage against the Blight. Which is a shame.

 

I can sympathise with your desire for straegic shenanigans. But how exactly do you target the Blight's strategic depth? Sounds like a magic thing rather than the footwear kink-ball's cup of tea. Because so far as we actually know the only really important thing about the Blight is the big guy at the top, and I don't think poisoning his toaster-pops is going to achieve a great deal.

[RPGmasterBoo]

"Why would you care about some vague Blight..."

 

you did play through ostegar, right? is our recollection that you is pretty much compelled to complete ostegar... sees an ocean o' darkspawn overwhelm fellow grey wardens? learn immediately afterward that darkspawn can sense you. am knowing that folks confronted by a horrible reality can become willful obtuse, but your question pushes bounds o' plausibility. is nothing vague 'bought blight... not for the pc and allister.

 

 

"Imoen is your closest friend. "

 

says who? she were some annoying little brat that kept calling us buffleheaded right up until moment she were savagely killed by enormous spiders, gibberlings, wyverns, or a poorly aimed fireball... can't recall specifics other than that no matter how many times we played bg, imoen mysterious seemed to die immediately before we encountered quayle, coran, or alora. go figure.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

Both games presume you'd want to get involved, right? I told you before: my PC doesnt care about saving the world. He does care about his friends because thats personal. I liked Imoen. It was never and issue with me.

 

That aside what attachment do you have to these Grey Wardens? You've just arrived, and the guy that was watching your back bravely for the last several hours, and has a family is killed before your very eyes. Then you're forced to drink something that may kill you. Then they pat you on the back and tell you: hey you survived!

A couple of days later you find out you're going to die earlier then you would have.

 

"Screw you and your Grey Wardens" is the first reaction of any sane man to those horrors.

 

In say Neverwinter Nights like in much of heroic fantasy you're doing a task for the common good, but at least you have glory and fame to look forward to.

 

In DA the only thing you can look forward to is death in a duty that's forced upon you.

 

So do you not see that the presumed interest in DA is much more divorced from the PC? At least that's how I see it, because I have trouble believing that my PC would go along with this if it wasn't forced upon him. There's actually no selfish and personal angle that applies to DA, since you don't really know any of the grey wardens enough to care.

 

If there was a lenghty introduction that familiarized you with these people, presented their goals in an appealing manner etc. etc. then I could see my PC making their fight his own. As it is I don't see it.

 

Why? Did you see what Duncan did to that dude! Deserting isn't a matter of just walking to the door and saying you want to live.

 

He didn't even refuse to fight! He refused to stuff himself with darkspawn blood (wouldn't anyone, considering how the first guy went down?). Nothing says he wouldn't have made a good soldier in the kings army.

 

But no, Duncan never considers this, he just stabs the man and shows you whatcha gonna end up like if you refuse.

Edited February 15, 2010 by RPGmasterBoo

[RPGmasterBoo]

Torment is at the same time a great achievement and a bad game. It steps so far out of its form that it becomes an interactive novel, but its so good at it that few complaints are really valid.

 

Personally I think its as close as video games can get to art that isn't primarily of a visual kind. Torment really takes you to another world, which is a common promise but rarely delivered.

 

I actually agree with everything you've said here. And since we so rarely agree, I leap at this chance! I absolutely adored PS:T, but I too referred to it as an "interactive novel" at the time... much to the consternation of many of its hard-core fans. I can't count the number of times I've been struck by the odd nostalgia and simply had to reinstall to play it just... one... more... time!

 

It takes me to a world I had never seen before, and shall never see again. Truly a great achievement.

 

 

Aww

Edited February 15, 2010 by RPGmasterBoo

[Tigranes]

In DA the only thing you can look forward to is death in a duty that's forced upon you.

 

You don't know that, though. I think this is blown out of proportion: every story-based game requires you to have some form of motivation or assumption going on, and DA did a good enough job at explaining why you end up joining the wardens at the start, and why you decide to go for it. If you just went your willy way after Ostagar it wouldn't be much of a story, and you could say that for every book and film out there.

[Sand]

But no, Duncan never considers this, he just stabs the man and shows you whatcha gonna end up like if you refuse.

 

Jory did draw his sword first and lunges first.

[Oner]

But no, Duncan never considers this, he just stabs the man and shows you whatcha gonna end up like if you refuse.

 

Jory did draw his sword first and lunges first.

IIRC he implies he would've killed Jory anyway.

[Sand]

No one ever said Duncan was a nice guy.

[Hurlshort]

Duncan was a prick.

 

I found the whole Warden situation easier to swallow as a Dwarf Commoner. My first try was as a human noble, and it really felt forced. I wanted to go after my family's killer, not serve in an army. As a commoner, it was a step up.

[Humanoid]

Given absolute freedom of choices, my human noble would have slit Duncan's throat as he slept on the trip to Ostagar - but it's a clearly impractical one as it would sort of necessitate writing an entire new game to branch off from that point. What I'd have perhaps liked to see instead is the origin stories relegated to the game's second act as a sort of flashback instead. This would convert the flimsy illusion of choice into one of circumstance, which on the whole I would find more palatable plotwise. e.g. You are a Bhaalspawn/Jedi/Guy covered in scars who wakes up in a mortuary instead of you (are forced to) 'choose' to become a Jedi/Grey Warden/general saviour of all humanity. Choice denied feels crueller than unarguable circumstance.

 

Perhaps open the game by throwing the character thick in the battle for Ostagar - and at the point your character gets knocked out, the pace can be slowed right down to explore your character and how they might have gotte into the current situation. I realise that's begging for a dozen ancient tropes, it would allow me to feel more control over the player character as a personality rather than a storyteller's construct.

 

 

 

My last attempted character concept was a genocidal elven supremacist city elf who would have loved to erase the entire human civilisation of Ferelden, along with the poxy human religion. Needless to say it didn't get very far (though open mockery of the chantry / monarchy / humans was somewhat amusing) and I'm waiting on the expansion to start my next game.

[RPGmasterBoo]

No one ever said Duncan was a nice guy.

 

Of course, but killing most of your potential candidates, and hiding information from them isn't exactly the best advertising for your cause.

 

You don't know that, though. I think this is blown out of proportion: every story-based game requires you to have some form of motivation or assumption going on, and DA did a good enough job at explaining why you end up joining the wardens at the start, and why you decide to go for it.

 

If you just went your willy way after Ostagar it wouldn't be much of a story, and you could say that for every book and film out there.

 

1. I disagree, why you choose to join the Wardens and how you're pushed into it is the weakest part of the plot that I've seen so far. When that impression washes away things become considerably better.

 

2. The issue was not whether the PC would join the Wardens. After all the entire plot hinges on that you choose to be a Warden, but the way you're pushed into it is off putting. Like Humanoid said, chance/bad luck/preordained destiny beats being bullied into it by an NPC. Of course you could do it all willingly, but there is no compelling reason to do so unless you're a total altruist.

 

I do have a general complaint about the reuse of the Jedi/Spectre deal for the third time, but I've mentioned the reasons too many times already.

 

Perhaps open the game by throwing the character thick in the battle for Ostagar - and at the point your character gets knocked out, the pace can be slowed right down to explore your character and how they might have gotte into the current situation. I realise that's begging for a dozen ancient tropes, it would allow me to feel more control over the player character as a personality rather than a storyteller's construct.

 

Good idea btw, makes more sense then my mage leaving his comfy tower.

Edited February 15, 2010 by RPGmasterBoo

[Wrath of Dagon]

Once more we got Bio's crappy "visit 4 places to find 4 doohickeys" all purpose autopilot plot. They could've made the whole thing a lot more interesting by explaining Loghain's motivation early on. Then a civil war would break out and you could choose which side you wanted to join. Lots of opportunities for political intrigue, spying, betrayal and so on. Also Loghaine being the patriot that he is, could've moved (after Cailan was dead) to save what was left of the Ferelden army, catching the Darkspawn army off-guard and destroying it. That would explain why that huge Darkspawn army didn't just roll over Ferelden in a few days while you were prancing around gathering allies.

[mr insomniac]

^ I don't know if we are speaking about different things here.

 

What I'm getting at is that there are key points in the game that apply to everybody (i.e. Ostagar / Landsmeet). As Tigranes says, inbetween you complete the main quest hubs and apart from the invasion of Lothering (a la the 'coffee stain' on the map and the occasional overland encounter) there isn't much to suggest that there is A DESPERATE WAR WITH THE FORCES OF UTTER RAMPAGING EVIL going on.

 

What I would have liked is two or three episodes, which don't all have to be hack'n'slash, to show you slowing the advance. Maybe you need to persuade someone to do something, like rally their forces and block a route of advance. Leliana might have to flutter her eyelids to achieve that one. Yes, in one episode you might have to take action --- kill the vanguard of Emissiaries to blunt an advance, maybe Sten needs to show you how his unit does things. Maybe you need one of the existing allies to do something pre-emptive, maybe the Dalish need to be mobilized to engage in early guerilla war to draw the Darkspawn into the woods....

 

I'm sure you see what I mean. Any one of these objectives is triggered by achieving any number of hub quests.

 

OK, it's a resource thing, so move the Chanter's Board or one of the Fedex-heavy stuff like Blackstone irregulars.

 

Result? Increased immersion. Fun. Feeling involved. Impactive gameplay.

 

Cheers

MC

Okay I understand what you're saying now, and yes I do agree the game would be improved. I guess I was trying to suggest that it's tough to have encounters with the advancing horde -- to go beyond the coffee stain on the map -- if your route to Redcliffe/Orzammar/Brecilian Forest/Urn is blocked by that horde because you didn't go there first.

 

Trouble is, the darkspawn horde is immense, and it doesn't have supply lines, and it's not trying to conquer the land so that it can be used later after all the pesky surfacers are taken care of. Its only goal is to make a wasteland of everything. By sheer numbers they would render pointless guerilla warfare in the forest. I'm reminded of that line in The Dark Knight when Bruce asks Alfred how they caught the crazy bandit in Southeast Asia, and Alfred says, "We burned the forest down." That's what the darkspawn horde does.