Mass Effect 2 Discussion

[Orogun01]

That's exactly why they would be trying to turn stars into black holes. According to Sovereign the Reapers are at the confines of the Universe on dark space; this fits very nicely with them making the Collectors base on a black hole and since the Citadel portal is closed they need another in, ergo the wormholes.

You may want to check up on your astronomy, wormholes and black holes have a few distinct differences

Checked it, Einstein-Rosen Bridges and black holes still look the same. Whatever you get the point

Edited February 4, 2010 by Orogun01

[Killian Kalthorne]

I just beaten the game with an Adept and the combat wasn't all that annoying. It got better once I maxed out Warp and Singularity. The only thing I don't like is the Cool down system. It should be individually based, not in one big group.

[Volourn]

"You don't know how to use biotics, apparently."

 

Nah. Just that guns are 1 billion times more useful. In ME1, biotics were actually useful and more importantly, hellas fun.

[Krookie]

"You don't know how to use biotics, apparently."

 

Nah. Just that guns are 1 billion times more useful. In ME1, biotics were actually useful and more importantly, hellas fun.

 

Nah, the biotics are WAY more entertaining in ME2. Hands down. You must be using a sucky biotic character because Charge and Shockwave (when fully maxed out) rule.

[Bos_hybrid]

Can I ask how all of ME2 characters are the usual Bio cliche?

 

As far as I'm concerned:

 

Thane = Carth

Miranda = Bastila/Morrigan/Silk fox

Zaaed = Canderous/Wrex/

 

Anyone else and your just bitching for the sake of bitching. Or more likely because it's a Bio game.

 

My complaints.

 

Lack of banter between squad members (Was expecting this honestly)

Lack of interesting side missions. (By the way there is about 20 N7 side mission, 10-15 you get by scanning planets. (That's for Boo))

Group power cooling. (Although changing that would probably make the game too easy)

Small non-combat zones.

Lack of armor options.

Lack of credit use.

Stupid end boss.

Garrus being shafted dialogue wise. (For male Sheps)

Bit returning characters (Ash/Liara(WTF)/Anderson)

Joker not finding out,

you did actually swap Samara for Morinth

.

Kal'Reegar not a squadmate. (Make it happen in ME3 Bio)

 

Highlights:

Combat (Massive improvement)

Soundtrack (Enjoy Suicide mission)

Graphics

Animation

Mordin x 3

Tali

Legion

Joker

TIM

Kal'Reegar

Quarians

Renegade Male Shep(Meer)

Morinth

Loyalty missions.(Especially Samara/Tali)

Final mission

Full Helms in conversations

Blood Dragon armor (Quite Purk)

Story (Better for the game to revolve around the characters, rather then just the big bad)

Interrupt system (could use some work)

[Nepenthe]

Going to be interesting if my fine-tuned tactics work better now that I'm playing on insanity.

What tactics? Hiding behind a conveniently placed crate, letting Miranda spam overload/warp & pulling out the sniper rifle/missile launcher once the enemy's defenses are down is the win at all times.

 

Yeahyeah, thank you for these insights.

[jaguars4ever]

Going to be interesting if my fine-tuned tactics work better now that I'm playing on insanity.

What tactics? Hiding behind a conveniently placed crate, letting Miranda spam overload/warp & pulling out the sniper rifle/missile launcher once the enemy's defenses are down is the win at all times.

 

Yeahyeah, thank you for these insights.

You should be grateful.

 

Virumor's right on the money, as I would expect him to be. The forced cover system essentially compels the style of playing mentioned by Viru. One style does not a tactic make. I suggest you play a few RPGs with quality combat such as, Severance: Blade of Darkness, Drakensang etc., before lauding a tactic-less system.

 

But then again what can one say to a guy who believes ME2 combat isn't dumbed down for consoles? Get a pair of glasses, maybe? LOL

Edited February 4, 2010 by jaguars4ever

[Oner]

But how exactly are they injecting it when they are somewhere very very far away?

 

 

Well since they're supposed to have invented the Mass Relays, who says they don't have other technology available? The Mass Relays and the Citadel are meant to make sure other civilizations follow specific scientific routes.. Maybe it's just a cunning plan to make sure people don't look into other scientific areas to solve problems the Mass Relays and such seem to solve...

 

 

It's one of the wonders of sci-fi series, you never know what tech is available to some uber-powerful advanced culture...

Or it's a cheap throwaway deus ex machina to set up some hints for ME3....

You could say they just logged the coordinates before they left and are using some supra-special-thingie-doie-beam from afar... but that's a bad explanation too. Edited February 4, 2010 by Oner

[Pop]

But how exactly are they injecting it when they are somewhere very very far away?

 

That's exactly why they would be trying to turn stars into black holes. According to Sovereign the Reapers are at the confines of the Universe on dark space; this fits very nicely with them making the Collectors base on a black hole and since the Citadel portal is closed they need another in, ergo the wormholes.

 

 

The Reapers didn't inject the dark matter, Geth did. It's not explained whether or not the Geth in that system are aligned with the Reapers, but given the retconning of "heatsinks" into ME2, it's pretty well established that the Geth's technology is advanced beyond the Citadel Race's.

 

[Orogun01]

Finished second playthrough and all I gotta say is Neural Shock is the best attack ever Now for the next DLC I'd like Samara and Aria to be romanceable (running short of sane asari to romance on this edition) and a hood for Zaeed . . . . Scratch that, a hood and a gag for Zaeed.

[GreasyDogMeat]

I have to say, I'm actually glad I lost at least one character (Zaeed) in the final mission. It WAS supposed to be a suicide mission and it might have felt... off... if everyone survived unscathed.

[HoonDing]

Is the Collector Beam Rifle the best weapon in the game? I picked it up yesterday and now I regret having wasted resources on researching heavy weapons in the beginning of the game. It's a heavy weapon with 650 ammo.

[jaguars4ever]

Is the Collector Beam Rifle the best weapon in the game? I picked it up yesterday and now I regret having wasted resources on researching heavy weapons in the beginning of the game. It's a heavy weapon with 650 ammo.

Yes. Keep it with you at all times and never look back. It's ten times more useful than ME2's Fat Man. Not only can it take down the Massive Baddies in seconds, but its also useful for mowing down Hordes of Haughty Husks hunting for your brains!

[Majek]

It's quite alright but it's eats ammo.

[Nepenthe]

I'm never thankful for having the obvious stated for me.

 

I found the encounter with the YMIR mech+Blue Suns infantry quite challenging, as the Suns were flanking me while the YMIR was going for a full frontal. Kind of illustrates why tanks work best with infantry in a beautiful practical way.

 

But then again, what can I expect from a guy who can't disagree on something as trivial as a game without going all junior high.

[jaguars4ever]

I'm never thankful for having the obvious stated for me.

Then it must be because you're the embodiment of obvious.

 

 

I found the encounter with the YMIR mech+Blue Suns infantry quite challenging, as the Suns were flanking me while the YMIR was going for a full frontal. Kind of illustrates why tanks work best with infantry in a beautiful practical way.

That was a mega tough battle, especially since the every freakin' NPC in the game casually hints at Omega for your first location. Go to Omega, they said. Recruit the Salarian Doctor they said. No mention of the Mechs of Doom in there. I think they forget to mention that little nugget of information.

 

But then again, what can I expect from a guy who can't disagree on something as trivial as a game without going all junior high.

Hey - leave my junior high out of this! It's a sacred place. It's the place I porked my first fat chick.

[HoonDing]

I had hacked the Mech, so... 'twas cake.

 

The fight at the end of the Warlord mission has two Mechs, a hot Blue Suns chick & a bunch of Krogans. That's kinda tough.

[Sargoth]

Did anyone save the rachni in the first game?

and met that Asari chick on the asari planet? stating that the rachni would be ready to ass-kick the reapers

Edited February 4, 2010 by Sargoth

[Nepenthe]

I had hacked the Mech, so... 'twas cake.

 

That's kind of the issue I had. Unless I'm completely confused in this matter as well ( ), you basically get both NPCs with AI hacking so late in the game, they are practically useless by the time. The YMIRs are in overabundance in the early stages of the game. Looks like there are a lot of rewards for playing Infiltrator

 

And I still think that the reasons for (some of) the changes were something else than "dumbing down for consoles" - if for no other reason, than the fact that ME1 was originally a console exclusive. I'm still not seeing the lack of variety, which was mostly cosmetic and not really a choice unless you wanted to handicap yourself by not using HMW+Savant+Colossus/Predator L/M/H, as a bad thing. And I don't think that the leveling up system is "dumber" either - just because the bumps are bigger (4 vs... 12, right?), it doesn't mean it's dumber, right? I think I actually had to think a lot more about the way I assigned my points than I ever did in ME1...

 

The way gear works does reek of "saving" stuff for DLC, though, especially when it comes to the ludicrously small selection of armor and civilian clothes - even if with the cosmetic customisation you can basically get more variety in looks than you could in ME1.

 

*shrug*, I don't really have a strong opinion on the matter, it's just a game I enjoy, but the "dumbing down" argument gets tossed around IMHO way too easily, and especially in this case. I'm sure "simplification" was one of the guiding lights in the design, but I don't think it was the only one.

[Raithe]

But how exactly are they injecting it when they are somewhere very very far away?

 

That's exactly why they would be trying to turn stars into black holes. According to Sovereign the Reapers are at the confines of the Universe on dark space; this fits very nicely with them making the Collectors base on a black hole and since the Citadel portal is closed they need another in, ergo the wormholes.

 

 

The Reapers didn't inject the dark matter, Geth did. It's not explained whether or not the Geth in that system are aligned with the Reapers, but given the retconning of "heatsinks" into ME2, it's pretty well established that the Geth's technology is advanced beyond the Citadel Race's.

 

 

There's actually discussion about whether the

Geth would have done it, and it doesn't make sense for the Geth to cause a sun in a system they control to blow up and ruin the planets they happen to be habiting.. Tali does the "even Geth don't have tech that advanced"

if I recall correctly...

 

To be fair, it wasn't so much retconning, as saying "wow, the reason the Geth kept pouring fire at you and never having to worry about weapons overheating was they were using this thermal clip technology.. and with the amount of Geth you killed in ME1 and the month long Geth cleanup, the Alliance and Council figured out the thermal clip and starting using it".

 

Partial retcon maybe, but there is a kind of logic there....

[213374U]

I'm still not seeing the lack of variety, which was mostly cosmetic and not really a choice unless you wanted to handicap yourself by not using HMW+Savant+Colossus/Predator L/M/H, as a bad thing. And I don't think that the leveling up system is "dumber" either - just because the bumps are bigger (4 vs... 12, right?), it doesn't mean it's dumber, right? I think I actually had to think a lot more about the way I assigned my points than I ever did in ME1...

Nah. Real top of the line gear like Savant X tools weren't common at all unless you were level 50+ which forced you to choose which of your squaddies was going to use it - same with HMW. But to a point that's a secondary issue, and stems from the new game+ feature.

 

Less different talents to specialize in means less character customization. Silliness notwithstanding, that's less player choice. In my first ME2 playthrough, I maxed 4 out of the 7 talents available, with some points invested in others (not that there is much of a difference between maxed out and regular in most). In a ME1 first playthrough you couldn't come even close to that proportion. That may not be "dumbing down", but I don't know what it is.

 

And whatever happened to bringing tech guys along to do tech stuff?

[Nepenthe]

I'm still not seeing the lack of variety, which was mostly cosmetic and not really a choice unless you wanted to handicap yourself by not using HMW+Savant+Colossus/Predator L/M/H, as a bad thing. And I don't think that the leveling up system is "dumber" either - just because the bumps are bigger (4 vs... 12, right?), it doesn't mean it's dumber, right? I think I actually had to think a lot more about the way I assigned my points than I ever did in ME1...

Nah. Real top of the line gear like Savant X tools weren't common at all unless you were level 50+ which forced you to choose which of your squaddies was going to use it - same with HMW. But to a point that's a secondary issue, and stems from the new game+ feature.

 

Less different talents to specialize in means less character customization. Silliness notwithstanding, that's less player choice. In my first ME2 playthrough, I maxed 4 out of the 7 talents available, with some points invested in others (not that there is much of a difference between maxed out and regular in most). In a ME1 first playthrough you couldn't come even close to that proportion. That may not be "dumbing down", but I don't know what it is.

 

And whatever happened to bringing tech guys along to do tech stuff?

 

Fair enough. I can't remember not having a Savant VII at least, but I must have been new game+ing too much towards the end. And I mean end, I can't see myself going back to it in a while.

 

I hadn't thought about the tech specialists. Mostly because the minigames beat the ME1 QTEs (yes, x360 version) hands down.

 

While I see your point about less options resulting in less choice, I don't think it really worked that way in practice with ME1.

 

I guess that my point is that while there are significant theoretical differences, in practice I'm not really noticing them that much. Maybe I'm just the target audience of this "dumbing down", the old guy with limited time for gaming (but limitless time to spew bs on forums when work isn't... working)

[jaguars4ever]

I had hacked the Mech, so... 'twas cake.

 

That's kind of the issue I had. Unless I'm completely confused in this matter as well ( ), you basically get both NPCs with AI hacking so late in the game, they are practically useless by the time. The YMIRs are in overabundance in the early stages of the game. Looks like there are a lot of rewards for playing Infiltrator

 

And I still think that the reasons for (some of) the changes were something else than "dumbing down for consoles" - if for no other reason, than the fact that ME1 was originally a console exclusive. I'm still not seeing the lack of variety, which was mostly cosmetic and not really a choice unless you wanted to handicap yourself by not using HMW+Savant+Colossus/Predator L/M/H, as a bad thing. And I don't think that the leveling up system is "dumber" either - just because the bumps are bigger (4 vs... 12, right?), it doesn't mean it's dumber, right? I think I actually had to think a lot more about the way I assigned my points than I ever did in ME1...

 

The way gear works does reek of "saving" stuff for DLC, though, especially when it comes to the ludicrously small selection of armor and civilian clothes - even if with the cosmetic customisation you can basically get more variety in looks than you could in ME1.

 

*shrug*, I don't really have a strong opinion on the matter, it's just a game I enjoy, but the "dumbing down" argument gets tossed around IMHO way too easily, and especially in this case. I'm sure "simplification" was one of the guiding lights in the design, but I don't think it was the only one.

To be fair Nepenthe, your timing argument that the ME1 was a console title has merit from a theoretical standpoint. But this does not mean that ME2 has been further consolified to appease the console masses.

 

But we don't have to worry about the developer/publisher's theoretical intentions. We have our grubby gamer hands on the finished product. We can look at it from a practical standpoint. In ME1 your character (and squad members) had around dozen categories to develop the character coupled with about a dozen different increments. In ME2 it's around half a dozen categories for the main character (at best; 4 for the the squad memebers) and with only 4 increments. What does this all mean? It means that the individuality and variance of character level development is reduced severely (i.e. dumbed down). In ME1 your Adept could wind up being completely different than my Adept. You might specialize heavily in Pull, whereas I in Singularity. Even your Soldier would be vastly different from mine. You might even shy away from diplomatic stats or hacking stats, whereas I could revel in it. The permutations were substantial. In ME2, almost every Vanguard Sheperd follows the similar development path as another's Vanguard Sheperd. Almost every Tali winds up the same as another's Tali. Hell, your Garrus might even be exactly the same as my Garrus. It's not hard to achieve with only 4 boxes (1 of which doesn't even become available until after the loyalty mission, thus further adding to the homogeneity of ME2's system)

 

Homogeneity - Permutations = Dumbed Down

Edited February 4, 2010 by jaguars4ever

[Raithe]

To be fair Nepenthe, your timing argument that the ME1 was a console title has merit from a theoretical standpoint. But this does not mean that ME2 has been further consolified to appease the console masses.

 

But we don't have to worry about the developer/publisher's theoretical intentions. We have our grubby gamer hands on the finished product. We can look at it from a practical standpoint. In ME1 your character (and squad members) had around dozen categories to develop the character coupled with about a dozen different increments. In ME2 it's around half a dozen categories for the main character (at best; 4 for the the squad memebers) and with only 4 increments. What does this all mean? It means that the individuality and variance of character level development is reduced severely (i.e. dumbed down). In ME1 your Adept could wind up being completely different than my Adept. You might specialize heavily in Pull, whereas I in Singularity. Even your Soldier would be vastly different from mine. You might even shy away from diplomatic stats or hacking stats, whereas I could revel in it. The permutations were substantial. In ME2, almost every Vanguard Sheperd follows the similar development path as another's Vanguard Sheperd. Almost every Tali winds up the same as another's Tali. Hell, your Garrus might even be exactly the same as my Garrus. It's not hard to achieve with only 4 boxes (1 of which doesn't even become available until after the loyalty mission, thus further adding to the homogeneity of ME2's system)

 

Homogeneity - Permutations = Dumbed Down

 

To be fair on the other side, the Evolved paths at Level 4 will provide a chunk of difference in how you end up using characters. You can evolve , what , 2 powers max and have the remaining powers at rank 2 for the Npcs? and deciding whether to go for the "area effect" evolution or just the "increased Bam!" option can cause changes in playstyle to a certain extent...

 

Using Area Shockwave/Pull etc gives different options and uses then the Long-lasting/Powerful effects.. or whether the Ammo ones suddenly effect every squad member or are just area-affect from one character..

[jaguars4ever]

^Which doesn't help my biotic if he doesn't want Pull. What if he wants Push? Or Warp? In ME1 I could choose from a buffet of options. In ME2 I'm left with table scraps.