Obsidian making Fallout: New Vegas

[cronicler]

Karna and Reputation.

TBH, I would not shed a tear if they scrapped Karma altogether and managed to get a Reputation system. Many of the choices you would be facing as a drifter, problem solver / maker wouldn't have clear cut goods or bads. If I concluded this deal in favor of the x city than that place gets better/rich. If i favor y city, they get the benefits. There is no real black or white in this unless you make place a absolute den of evil and b a bastion of light. Yes I agree that a counter to check if I am a nice person or a backstabbing sob is nice but that does not really affect who gives me the jobs. It needs to be done, I am an agent. Money talks even if you hate the guy.

 

Jumping on to the money part. In the old Fallouts bottlecaps were the basic currency sure but no one had them in real quantities, the real deals were among the lines of "Ill give you 3 rifles, 1 shotgun, 2 nuke colas, an iguana-on-a-stick and 3 fruits for 348 10mm bullets and that leather Armor and... 3 caps." It was just a way to count loose change. In FO2 we had even more currency like redding mine chits, NCR dollars, Reno.... condoms...

I would like to see this back in the game. Different factions like traders, miners, water merchants all issuing their own chits and bartering for the chit worths and items. Swap barter. A universal cash unit does make the game faster but it does hit the setting too.

Edited May 8, 2009 by cronicler

[GreasyDogMeat]

Oh... and one thing Fallout really needs. A gun like the mesmetron, except when you shoot someone people start uncontrollably dancing until they fall over drooling.

 

[mkreku]

And why do these special encounters need a three time bigger map?

It doesn't need a three times bigger map. Just as dialogue doesn't need to be more than 80 characters to work. But if you're trying to portray a wasteland, do it properly. It's setting the mood.

[GreasyDogMeat]

Remove the ability to heal crippled limbs by taking an hour long nap. Only a Doctor visit or use of stims directly to the limb should work.

[Gfted1]

Probably replaced the pc -human model with the in game teddy bear model.

 

Ah, I see.

[Gizmo]

Still... I remember walking my PC into Gizmo's casino with 5 caps, and walking out with 1500.

Hey Gizmo, that would have taken at least half a day to accomplish.

Were you so patient or you wanted all that Killian’s staff badly?

I suppose I could have been, but it was not like that... My PC had a strength of 2, a luck of 10, and tagged Gambling. He would still lose, but usually not as often as he won [it seemed]. So I just tapped the hotkeys for the bets in rapid succession and the winnings fluctuated up and down quite a bit, but generally went up over time, and I quit at around 1500 [rather than risk dropping several hundred and having to make it up again.]

 

It couldn't have taken more than 10 to 15 minutes.

Edited May 9, 2009 by Gizmo

[Aristes]

Still... I remember walking my PC into Gizmo's casino with 5 caps, and walking out with 1500.

Hey Gizmo, that would have taken at least half a day to accomplish.

Were you so patient or you wanted all that Killian

[crakkie]

From JE's twit:

pro-tier track: http://bit.ly/118mSK

The Redding song... Mark Morgan doing the muzak for FONV?

Edited May 9, 2009 by crakkie

[Jaesun]

Here is what to expect from Fallout: New Vegas

 

- Story: Obsidian likes to tell stories. They do this very well. Granted, if they have the time, they do it well. (SEE Mask of the Betrayer).

- JE likes to tweak stuff: This is a GOOD things (SEE Icewind Dale II). However, this will ultimately depend on how much freedom Obsidian is allowed with the ruleset, and game engine.

-Dialogues: we Will NEVER see such horrifying

- You fight the good fight

-[intelligence] You fight the good fight

OEI actually *knows* how to make/write dialogue stat checks.

- Music:

- OEI has always understood how music can impact a game. Hell they even created a position for it. This is a GOOD thing.

 

As for what ever else they have planned.... MYSTARY.

Edited May 9, 2009 by Jaesun

[IguanaBob]

I suppose I could have been, but it was not like that... My PC had a strength of 2, a luck of 10, and tagged Gambling. He would still lose, but usually not as often as he won [it seemed]. So I just tapped the hotkeys for the bets in rapid succession and the winnings fluctuated up and down quite a bit, but generally went up over time, and I quit at around 1500 [rather than risk dropping several hundred and having to make it up again.]

 

It couldn't have taken more than 10 to 15 minutes.

 

Ahh, that explains, to tell the truth in all my playthroughs after all these years,I

[Promethean]

Why would religion cause a problem? Religion is often the big bad in many RPGs and most arent even subtle about which one they are using to fill the position. Christianesque religion is probably the evil in as many games as Big Government.

[Kjarista]

Remove the ability to heal crippled limbs by taking an hour long nap. Only a Doctor visit or use of stims directly to the limb should work.

 

Or a real doctor skill, like in the originals.

[Kjarista]

I don't know if this is already in F3 or not, but I'd like to see a full body gib for when an enemy is critically hit with a rocket in the chest. not just the limbs falling off, but having the entire body and all its limbs explode into bloody chunky vapor.

 

Yeah I know that request doesn't fit in with the rest of what I want (ie story/characters/dialogue/choice and consequence), but I really got sick of seeing explosions just knock limbs off of people like legos off a lego building.

 

and no more slow-mo vats

 

make slow mo only occur on critical hits, or never

 

Critical hits can blow the mob into chunks, and these chunks can be found a fair distance away. It's more likely with bloody mess perk.

[Syraxis]

Why would religion cause a problem?

 

Political Correctness, a cancer of creativity.

[Kjarista]

The reason I want a huge map is because, in addition to being a Las Vegas native, I've spent a lot of time driving in and around all of these locations. I remember driving just over the horizon so I could get a clear view of the Milky way without all the light polution. (Thanks, Luxor. Rat bastards.) Anyhow, having a larger map would give us more variety in the locations. More of a wasteland feel than just Las Vegas/Henderson.

 

Plus, someone mentioned earlier, but the Church of Latter Day Saints has a tremendous presence in Henderson. Really, both Vegas and Henderson, but I think Henderson politics is still pretty much dominated by Mormons. First of all, I've had a good rapport with all of the Mormons I've met, so I don't think this is a bad thing for the city at any rate. More to the point, apparently Van Buren managed to include some of the different religious aspects in the game. For example, we Catholics have a big presence in Las Vegas and even Henderson. Probably the largest single religious group in the City unless you count all protestants as a single group. I don't want religion to be some sort of overbearing, in your face aspect of the game, but I can see how it could add a little flavor to the game. Some nuance, maybe.

 

We had a fairly large discussion about this on the Beth boards. I'll repeat my argument here. I don't think there would be a problem using generic or fictional religion and religious sects in game, but using real religious sects would be asking for trouble, no matter how positively they are portrayed. It's a PR nightmare risk that need not be taken.

[Malcador]

Eh, I think they can "get away" with it - not that putting a religious group in is improper, and I've a sneaking suspicion Obsidian have some smarts whenit comes to that. I'd hope people, if they were already so inclined, would rather have a problem with the over-glorification of violence - what with the slow-motion shots of 10 mm bullets decapitating people and what not.

[Promethean]

Why would religion cause a problem?

 

Political Correctness, a cancer of creativity.

 

Like I said, that hasnt stopped games before.

[Aristes]

I don't think religion should be portrayed as positive or negative in a game. I'm Catholic, myself. I think religion, just like every other faction in the game, should have a reason why it has survived. On one hand, you show why folks might not like it. On the other hand, the adherants will probably try to give their best argument on behalf of their religion. Some of them will probably give better arguments than others, I'm sure.

 

Let's not take religion bashing as our example, since bashing religion is most decidedly 'politically correct' in our day and age and it is so often used it it cliched. Let's be creative instead.

 

How about this? We have an environmentalist group. Since we're shying away from making one group the real baddies, we won't depict them as evil. Of course, most developers don't make environmental groups the baddies anyhow, right? By the same token, no group is our shining armor good guys either. So we depict the environmental group as a realistic thing. It will have faults. Some members of the group might be dishonest or hypocritical. (Yeah, just like folks say about religion, I know.) The group might have good goals, but is particularly strident and implacable. (ditto.) Their lofty goals might be combined with questionable means. (I don't have to keep doing this, right?)

 

Now, not every group will have the same problems and strengths, that's true, but every group that has managed to exist should have some reason it has managed to do so. There have been atheists and religious people for at least as far back as we have written documents. Some of them will simply sound stupid when they argue for their position. However, some of them will make strong cases for what they believe. Some might make a strong emotional appeal. The design team should do its best to make that emotional appeal as strong as possible. Some of them might make a strong rational appeal. Once again with the design team. Every relgious person will not make an emotional appeal. Every atheist won't make a rational appeal.

 

Returning to religion in the wasteland, having the Church of Latter Day Saints survive and actually thrive in the Las Vegas/Henderson area is not only a reasonable assumption, it's actually unreasonable to assume it wouldn't. After some time during which the world survives a nuclear war and its aftermath, that religion will probably have changed, but it will also probably exist. Maybe some new religions will have popped up. However, relgion in the Fallout games has never been realistic.

 

Finally, I'm not putting this in as a demand. I don't think that it would be particularly bad on the PR front. I think it might make it hard to craft a good story that doesn't offend anyone. For one thing, having a strong Momon presence would offend not only other religious sects that weren't also represented, but it would also offend a lot of atheists who prefer not to have a strong religious representation from any Christian church. (Yeah, I know that some Christians don't consider Mormons as Christian. Whatever.) That's why I put it in as a suggestion. I'm not going to be a strong advocate. I just think it would be a possible way to nuance the game. Even if included, I don't want to have it as a central theme.

 

The important thing for me is that the design team represents each faction as strongly as possible. Put the best arguments in the mouths of the adherants, on behalf of religion or not, as the writers possibly can.

[mkreku]

I think they should just call Brian Fargo and ask if they can bring back the Servants of the Mushroom Cloud.

 

(Wasteland already had a version of Las Vegas with a temple dedicated to that cult)

 

[cronicler]

Aristes: As you pointed out, this issue is really a huge tangled web of problems and booby traps.

On the other hand, It has always been fun to interact with weird groups in Fallout (and wasteland) Children of the Cathedral (Bad guys' tools in FO1), BOS (I mean those guys are the warrior monks aren't they?), Followers of the Apocalypse, Hubologists, The ghoul town in FO:Tactics... Heck you can even count that shotgun wedding in this category too

 

Anyway what , am trying to say is; using religion in the game is one of the most natural things. It just carries too much flame potential especially on todays politically correctness and religious sensibilities and all that bull....

[J.E. Sawyer]

I object to the presence of religion in this game with drug addiction, child slavery, prostitution, violent dismemberment, and cannibalism.

 

You know why I think most people don't take games seriously? Designers can't even take their own games seriously. If they talk about a serious topic, they almost always do everything through impotent proxies, like racism through elves and dwarves. Or it's a mocking religious parody like the Hubologists. Parodies and simple proxies make things easy to understand, but typically fail to say anything of interest or explore anything in meaningful depth.

 

The reason why Big Love (for example) tends to succeed where other representations of religious groups fail is that the show uses them as something more than a dumb punchline. This doesn't mean that religion needs to be part of Fallout or any other game, but if you want games to be taken seriously, you should demand that they deal with serious topics in a serious manner, not through abstractions and proxies.

[Morgoth]

Exactly. Makes it even more sad that the 6 days in Fallujah game was cancelled. Not sure if that game would have handled the subject seriously, but that Konami pulls back because of some press just shows that freedom of artistic expressions gets kicked with the feet too often these days.

[Gromnir]

Why would religion cause a problem?

 

Political Correctness, a cancer of creativity.

 

Like I said, that hasnt stopped games before.

 

sure it has. you is a troika fan, right? every game developer in world were aware that if you wanted to sell your game in germany, you couldn't have graphic depictions o' child killing. nevertheless, troika forgot or didn't care 'cause they acted all shocked and surprised when they found out that they couldn't release toee with killable children. resulted in some silliness and funky quests.

 

is probable ok to lampoon religion and evangelists and such stuff... is any number o' games that does so. that being said, target catholic church or mormons may be problematic. pentecostals? is a pretty easy target and am not thinking they gots any noteworthy PACs. make funnies directed at religion is worth doing, but the Publisher (not obsidian) is eventually gonna be the folks that gotta deal with whichever organized religion is cheesed off by game content, so am not surprised that those publishers often ere on side o' caution. from publisher pov it simply not make sense to alienate and enrage major religious groups when what you is trying to do is sell games.

 

here is a suggestion that is unlikely to ever see light o' day: use obsidian's fallout game as a platform for abortion debate. in a post apocalyptic setting there is gonna be ample opportunities to depict abortion from multiple povs. am betting that any number o' ambitious game writers would love to work on a fallout abortion clinic... Dr. Bob's Abortion Clinic & _________. ammo shop? brothel? fine meats? whatever. nevertheless, in spite o' possibilities, is it really worth the aggravation... inviting all kinds o' problems.

 

oh, and Gromnir is dead set against adding anymore skills than bethesda used in fo3-- couldn't even balance and get appropriate use out o' those skills they already has and folks wanna resurrect outdoorsman and doctor n' such.... and gamble has been so busted and subject to abuse in every fallout game we ever played that am genuine surprised folks would actual suggest bringing that nightmare back.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited May 9, 2009 by Gromnir

[cronicler]

I guess this is as close to an open declaration as we can expect. Thanks for your explanations Mr. Sawyer.

 

So, lets get back to the vehicles before we go too OT, what are your preferences in seeing vehicles in the Wastes? Some people like to see Mad Max 2ish road gangs while others want to go for a more Wild Western feel with a just a very few powered and heavily converted vehicles and lots of Caravans, Brahmin trains (ie herds being cowboyed to somewhere) and maybe a chopper or 2 for the new age cowboys.

 

Personally I would like to see a somehow mobile base for the player. It does not have to be as extensive as a Mobile-Home but even a Mount (too bad horsies are all dead) or a Chopper with saddlebags to store some things could be enough. Well a packhorse that is and a trike with a load attachment considering what a packrat I am

 

Well if we want to bring back the wasteland/world map aspect back, we will need to tie the wold map and some other minor but glossed over functions to something. Outdoorsman just gets back in because It starts to get used again.

 

On the subject of gamble.... Well you are right. It was a way to implement it in the old fallouts but seeing that it can now be handled in a decent way using the in game assets, (Ie Dragon Dice, Pazaak etc) I wouldn't be sad if we did not see it again. I do want to see some games (of chance and of thinking) in the game thou!

Edited May 9, 2009 by cronicler

[Morgoth]

Vehicles (a'la buggy from HL2) is okay if the map size supports it. It's all a balancing act. I just don't want it to be about vehicles. Next, fanboys crie they want tanks and choppers too. Then we have a GTA wannabe, and that ain't fun!

Edited May 9, 2009 by Morgoth